What did i do wrong?

Originally Posted By: LodgepoleAmazing how many folks just automatically think that where some else is hunting the terrain and cover is just like where they hunt . Calling coyotes with lots of trees around is very challenging . Not very often do you those big numbers bagged when there is lots of cover . A man with a good rifle in open country is king of road with lots of cover not so much so he gets some but not as easy or as many.That is what makes it challenging and why we do it .some areas just don't have the habitat that others do plus some areas have lots of competition for the available food source (wolves, cougars,foxes etc. )So even when we get better at calling we might not get the action others do but we might not have the numbers of critters to call in . Do not get discouraged ,and keep asking questions as you have here .I get a few but I remember each and every one !!!

Calling in other conditions often gets overlooked when typing a response. I make replies sometimes without extra thought, but I have also hunted most types of terrain/vegetation.
There are basic guidelines for do's and don'ts.
For the most part they will help success while not being absolute, way too many variables.
The biggest rule of coyote hunting I find completely universal is limit any movement. One move wrong time can ruin it.
Beyond that I defy many of the established rules and have had to create my own guidelines over the years.
I take my truck to most stands(90%)and shoot right from the seat. We have almost no trees locally so that says something.
Let me tell you calling from a vehicle is about the same as a big screen tv on the ocean.
Despite this and many other obstacles I manage to get my fair share and even some pics and witnesses.
Not a brag but instead proof that others can do better.
 
Originally Posted By: kswaterfowlBeing a big game hunter doesn't mean squat when it comes to calling coyotes. Pretty much everyone that I know is a deer hunter, but I can count on one hand how many would be successful calling coyotes.

There have been some knowledgeable guys on here that has given you some good info. Take their advice and try it out. It might work, it might not. I did some calling a few months back with a couple guys in Colorado, who I consider top notch coyote callers. I kept my mouth shut, listened to what they told me, and learned a lot of new techniques. I've been calling coyotes for over 10 years, and killed my fair share. But I am always willing to learn from others.

You did very well at listening and learning......I learn something new every time i go out!

If I remember correctly, we saw 20+ Coyotes that day and only killed 4.

We could have used our 1 mile rifles for sure:)

I am looking forward to late October 2020!
 
"I learn something new every time i go out!"

Now that is an absolute truth. The learning never stops, and even on the busted stands and inevitable screw-ups, the information gleaned is so valuable for the long haul.
 
Originally Posted By: newfielanderSlickerThanSnot, your comment did not answer my question, it seems there is always one like you in every town.
I think I may have explained my set up wrong, I guess. But if you were to watch any video's on youtube related to coyote hunting around fields or open areas the majority of guys if not every guy sets up looking out across the open field, not on the side of the field that the wind is blowing but on the side of where the wind is coming from. We all know "even newbies" coyotes like any animal generally try to get downwind before approaching something that as its attention. When I explained my setup how I waited at the edge of a lake. (in cover) looking out across the lake which was downwind of me. If the coyoted attempted to try and get my scent, I would have to see him walking out on the lake. why is that so wrong?
Seeing you are SlickerThanSnot, please tell me what these coyotes are trying to tell me.



Newfie,

Responses like that are not going to endear you to long time and experienced members here. When you snap back about there "being one of you in every town," guys are not going to want to help you out.

Then when you come at guys with comments like "but if you were to watch ANY of the videos on YouTube," yeah, that really turns guys against you. I call in a coyote about every 3 stands, and I, for one, do NOT watch the wide open fields. I watch the tree lines. Now I am not going to tell you that I am the end all be all caller, but I nail more than my fair share in any given year, and I hunt a lot of different areas and terrain. When I have a defined tree line like you described, I will watch straight down it. Now if the wind was as you said, then I might have tried something like a snow blind so that I could get out a little bit onto the lake and then watched the edge of the tree line. Not so sure why you are convinced that the ONLY way that the coyote could have approached or smelled you was out on the lake, but it sounds more like you are defending your stand set up as opposed to truly asking for advice or help. It's like when I am at the range and someone asks my advice, but immediately tries to shoot down what I say. I call it the "Bowling Alley" mentality. When I was bowling competitively, it never failed that I would find guys at the lanes with loads of advice, yet they were never bowling or they were never at the tournaments. One guy tried to tell me that the technique and equipment I was using was all wrong...yet I placed 3rd in the state, and the 2 guys that beat me didn't look anything like this guy.

That is what turns guys away from helping you. With 5 coyotes under your belt, and you asking for help, I wouldn't be so fast to defend my set up. I learn a LOT from the guys here, ALL the time. I may take what they say and try it exactly how they recommend, I may only take parts of it, but I look for ways to be better at what I do. I freely admit to not being perfect when it comes to coyote hunting and there are some GREAT guys here who have a lot of information to share IF you are open to it.

A lot of the videos on YouTube do NOT explain how they set up nor why they set up that way. I can tell you that a lot of videos are not even shot on the same days but may be spread out over a week or several weeks trying to get enough useable material. So I would be careful betting the farm on everything you see there.

I typically like to have the wind across one shoulder or the other. I don't usually set up with it in my face IF I can help it. I have gotten to observe a lot of the coyotes that I shoot approach, and have gotten good at reading them. I hunt the desert, the mountains, the forests, the wide open high desert and I will tend to set up that same way each time. Not saying my way is the only way, but you can't argue with the results. I will often include my stand set ups either here on PM or on our YouTube channel, Predator Technology Group, because I want to further our sport and help guys the same way that the great guys here on PM helped me all those years ago.

Good luck and good hunting.
 
SnowmanMo,I can defend the reason why I said that very first statement you have in red but it won't help me kill more coyotes, just like the comment that was said to me prior to me saying what I said, didn't help me kill any coyotes. I was looking for advice, not criticism. But it can be frustrating for a newbie when just after I made this post the first 2 guys reply were, "Never have the wind at your back." then the next guy says, "I almost always have the wind at my back" now don't you see how that can cause any newbie to be like what is going on here, do these guys know what they are talking about?
I have come to the conclusion like another guy mentioned there are so many variables in every set up it's hard for guys who are not there to see each other's opinion as being the right or wrong way of doing things. I think that's a fair comment to make.
I am adding a google earth picture to explain a little more of the set up this post was started about and please don't feel like I'm defending my way of doing things, I'm just explaining in a little more detail so you can get a better picture.
With all the variables I have included in the pictures the only hope I felt of me seeing a coyote before dark was if it came out on the shoreline, I felt the best thing to do would be sitting near the edge of the shoreline so I can see to my left and to my right and straight ahead of me. With the light breeze blowing straight out across the lake, there was no way a coyote would be able to smell me if it came to the shoreline on either side of the lake other then at the opposite end, which would be too far for a comfortable shot for me. So given these details where did I go wrong?
[img:center]https://imgur.com/a/CaCyCii[/img]
Also SlickerThanSnot, it's all good,
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I'm enjoying every post made. This is for your enjoyment and anyone else, here you go my friends. This is a link to part of a website I'm slowly building,
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Enjoy
 
What works for one person may not work for everyone. tripod3 stated that he calls with the wind blowing towards the area he's calling. He also calls coyotes from a vehicle which is unheard of unless you're calling from a high rack at night under a spotlight. He regularly hits coyotes at distances that most guys don't very often at all. He's got his system figured out and it works for him. Now you have to find out what works for you.

There for a long time I had more bobcat kills under my belt than coyotes because I was set in my ways. I know guys that have called for a long time and have never seen let alone shot a bobcat so I was lucky in one way and horrible in another. The first coyote I ever successfully called in was straight downwind of me and got away. Just as quickly as I saw him, he was gone. It wasn't until I started changing what I was doing on every single stand every time that I started killing coyotes. If something wasn't working I changed it up. I had nothing to lose but a lot to gain. If something isn't working or if another idea is presented to you that may work better don't be afraid to try it. I'm still learning and I've been doing it for quite a while now. You'll get to where you have the basics figured out and you'll get a coyote every now and then. But they'll throw a curve ball at you every so often. Just when you think you got them all figured out there will be one that proves you wrong. If you do get it figured out and you kill everything that comes in,never get winded,heard or seen.....You'd be one in a million that can do it.
 
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If the red line in the first picture is where the wind was blowing I would say that was a good set up...almost. Coyotes ain't gonna go swimming to wind you. The only thing I'd have done different was set up further up towards where you had the call. That would have put you at a crosswind and a clear shooting lane in that open spot in the trees. If a coyote tried to wind you it would have to travel up the shoreline towards you.
 
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This is a little off the topic, but I have seen somewhere pictures of coyotes from Newfundland that looked very different, maybe more wolf genes, or maybe they drank too much Screech. Anyway would love to see some pictures of your kills. Lots of good info on here, somethings you were told may work once a year on a big clear cut or barren, but add to the bag. Good luck.
 
Yes you are rightmass hunter, take a look at these coyotes I got on trail cam. Looks to be a little on the large size I feel.40lbs is a normal coyote here, but many also much more which have been killed and tested to have wolf genes in them.
[video:youtube][/video]
[video:youtube][/video]
OKRattler yes that's the direction of the wind, but this lake is 3 feet of ice and snow right now.No swimming happening yet for a while.
 
Originally Posted By: newfielanderSnowmanMo,I can defend the reason why I said that very first statement you have in red but it won't help me kill more coyotes, just like the comment that was said to me prior to me saying what I said, didn't help me kill any coyotes. I was looking for advice, not criticism. But it can be frustrating for a newbie when just after I made this post the first 2 guys reply were, "Never have the wind at your back." then the next guy says, "I almost always have the wind at my back" now don't you see how that can cause any newbie to be like what is going on here, do these guys know what they are talking about?
I have come to the conclusion like another guy mentioned there are so many variables in every set up it's hard for guys who are not there to see each other's opinion as being the right or wrong way of doing things. I think that's a fair comment to make.
I am adding a google earth picture to explain a little more of the set up this post was started about and please don't feel like I'm defending my way of doing things, I'm just explaining in a little more detail so you can get a better picture.
With all the variables I have included in the pictures the only hope I felt of me seeing a coyote before dark was if it came out on the shoreline, I felt the best thing to do would be sitting near the edge of the shoreline so I can see to my left and to my right and straight ahead of me. With the light breeze blowing straight out across the lake, there was no way a coyote would be able to smell me if it came to the shoreline on either side of the lake other then at the opposite end, which would be too far for a comfortable shot for me. So given these details where did I go wrong?
[img:center]https://imgur.com/a/CaCyCii[/img]
Also SlickerThanSnot, it's all good,
thumbup.gif
I'm enjoying every post made. This is for your enjoyment and anyone else, here you go my friends. This is a link to part of a website I'm slowly building,
Hunting DVD Trailers
Enjoy


I think that it's fair to wonder about the qualifications about someone on the other side of the screen on any forum/website. I just want you to get the kinds of advice/responses that are going to help you. Take what you want from the advice, but if you're going to try to argue and defend your position, guys are going to call you on it.

That being said, you have gotten some great advice. Now, will it result in a pile of dead coyotes right away? Probably not. But you're going to start dialing in on them and your successes will increase.

I get a lot of folks, as I am sure you do being a guide, that think that just because they have hunted with you that they can magically reproduce your results. A lot of guys don't get to see all the hard work that goes into being successful at what you are doing. The same goes for the guys here on the forum. There are a LOT of REALLY good callers on here and I am honored to be able to call many of them friends and I am humble that they are willing to share their tactics and tips with me.

So I want to pass that along.

Thanks for the pics. The problem is that with the area that you circled, there's just too much area there that the coyote "might" have been in to really dial in on what happened. Personally, I think it caught your wind, since you were in such thick cover. We know that winds can do weird things in the forest.

Again, usually if they are howling/barking like that, they busted you, and I agree with your statement that if it had come onto the lake, you would have seen it.

From what I have seen, coyotes use their hearing first to close the gap to the call. Once they get within a certain range, they shift gears, and the commonly try to take a sniff. For that reason, I say set up with the wind across one shoulder or the other. Now, do I do that ALL the time? Nope. Does that mean I don't know what I'm talking about because I don't do that every time? Nope. There are any number of reasons that I might break my own "rules" if you will. Terrain is a big one. Sometimes I use the terrain to my advantage. I know that they like to take a whiff, so sometimes the terrain can force them into a better shooting position, specifically if I break my own rules. For example, if the brush is THICK...but there's a nice defined edge, I may set up with the wind to my back, but I know that I am going to have to be ready to take a quick shot since they will wind me pretty quick.

But if I can, I put the wind on one shoulder or the other, put my call out 75-100 yards if I have a rifle, 25-50 if I am running a shotgun. During the cold times, when they are trying to get calories to stay warm, I use prey calls. This time of year, I run howls, and wait without making another sound until they howl back. Then I respond with the same howl. Then I may give them a squeaker to focus in on. When the pups are down, pup distress time.

But I guarantee that you are calling more coyotes than you are seeing. It's tough, especially given where you are calling, because of the cover. I personally don't watch the wide open areas unless there is a tree line or brushline on the other side of the clearing. Even when I call the open high desert, I don't watch the wide open areas, since I've found them not so willing to come out across there. Give them cover and that helps them to feel more safe and secure. You can also try some confidence calls such as crows or magpies, maybe a blue jay. They are usually found around carrion and that can boost a coyote's confidence.

Stay at it..I once had a game and fish biologist I worked with tell me that predators are successful once in every 5 attempts...I think that applies to us as well.
 
Make sure you know what coyote challenges sound like. The areas I hunt in quite often a coyote or coyotes will challenge me when I start playing a rodent, bird or rabbit distress sound.

If they are challenging you they maybe thinking that your distress sound is being caused by a coyote or coyotes.

For many years when I was using a cassette player to call coyotes I was being challenged and I thought I was busted and they were doing warning barks.

A coyote or coyotes that challenges you can be easy to call in if you are within their area. Foxpro's "Coyote Male Challenge 4" sound sounds just like most of the challenges I hear. I have this "Coyote Male Challenge 4" sound on full volume as my #4 preset sound so I can instantly challenge the coyotes back when I hear them challenge me.

So make sure you know what the coyote challenge sounds sound like so you can challenge them back.
 
Hey derbyacresbob, is that a mp3 file? Can you send it to my email?
huntinontherock@hotmail.com, I may have it already but like to hear it just the same.
 
No it is not a MP3 file so I can't send it to you.

The Male Coyote Challenge 4 sound is a regular sound and it is #184 in the coyote vocal sound list.
 
Nope, not so smart, Bob. That's the same little bugger that used to fuss at me every night for a week or so when I parked my jeep in the barn. Never did get a shot at him.
lol.gif


Regards,
hm
 
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