Digital Powder Dispenser vs. Powder Measures

OK guys, I'm confused, which is not too hard to achieve. I have been reloading rifle, pistol and shotgun for well over 50 years. I have always worked under the assumption that so long as one achieved consistent powder charges, irrespective of how, that is what is important. Why would I care whether they are "thrown" or "trickeled" so long as they were accurate and consistent? I am not talking about time or convenience here. ?????
 
Claimbuster,

I got the 1500 combo. I love it. My loads are spot on all the time with it. You don't have to "throw" your load with the powder dispenser and the "trickle" in the the last few grains to make it balance on the old beam scale.

You simply push the dispense button and get a perfect powder charge every time...

Is it worth the money, I think so. Do you need it, NO. Does it make it easier and as accurate, YES.

It is faster, as accurate if not more so, and to me a benefit in my reloading. My ES went down, my Hi/lo spread tightened up and my groups are more consistent.

Just my opinion. But, I say buy the 1500 combo. There are many great and time saving features. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grinning-smiley-003.gif
 
claimbuster,
It may not seem logical but the benchrest competition shooters have pretty much proven that volume measured charges are more accurate under 300 yards.

Lots of guesses why. But the winners are not weighing charges. It is hard to argue with success. At ranges beyond 300 weighed charges are better because they have less SD. SD is increasingly important with range, no big deal at shorter ranges.

Jack
 
Quote:
claimbuster,
It may not seem logical but the benchrest competition shooters have pretty much proven that volume measured charges are more accurate under 300 yards.

Lots of guesses why. But the winners are not weighing charges. It is hard to argue with success. At ranges beyond 300 weighed charges are better because they have less SD. SD is increasingly important with range, no big deal at shorter ranges.

Jack



Hey Jack,

Does this rule apply to all calibers, all powders, all powder measures, all rifles, all bullets, compressed charges or not????? The benchrest croud is a meticulus bunch but, I doubt they use the same componets and equipment that the vast majority of reloaders are interested in. It would be interesting to know the Science, Magic, or Voodoo that makes it work. I would like to know why bullets leaving the mussel at closer to same speed would be less accurate at short ranges. It seems to me that once they leave the barrel they are acted on by the same forces with one of the biggest variables more under control.
I guess we can chalk this phenomenon up to aliens, or maybe the liberals in Congress, till someone really figures it out. Maybe I can get my grandson to take the problem for his PHD thesis.
 
I would like to reiterate the proper use of the Chargemaster. It throws/trickles a charge into the pan until it reaches the proper weight, you get a beep, it displays the count and lastly displays the finish weight. (Notice the arrows at the bottom say it’s a stable, under or over weight) This is the way RCBS intended the Chargemaster to be used.
My Chargemaster does not throw/trickle a perfect charge every time (a lot depends on the powder you use) so I dump charges that are not on the money into a water glass and start over again. With ball, H335, etc I can sometimes go 50 rounds without dumping an imperfect load and with other powders I may have to dump every 10 rounds.
I have been reloading for over 50 years and tools like this make things a lot easier.
 
So, it sounds like if I were to buy a chargemaster, I would like the ease of use but may want to change from varget to a ball powder for my .308. Proabably not a big deal but good to know.
 
The Lyman has an adapter of some sort that fits into the trickler nozzle that they recommended for use with the extruded powders like H4831SC. I wonder if it would work for the Chargemaster?
 
I have one of the older RCBS dispenser/scale combos that is a bit slower than the new Chargemaster. This older model was made by, or licenced by, Pact. I rarely get an over charge even with Varget or any of the IMR powders. If you get a .1 grain over weight, you can take out a pinch and hit the charge button and it will trickle in the right weight. I check the weights against a Dillon Determinator and a Lyman Ohaus balance beam and they always match perfectly.

The new Chargemaster seems a bit quirky as others have discribed it. I wonder if it slows down the operation waiting for the beep? RCBS is not your only choice on the powder dispensers. Take a look at the Pact as well. I know I will never go back to the old methods with as many bullets as I reload.
 
I bought the Lyman 1200 DPS II. After I had to pull about 200 bullets because I found out that it was "floating" .5gr or better, I sent it back to Lyman, had it repaired, and sold it on eBay.

Never going back there again. I have a Hornady powder measure that meters within .1gr every time. It's MUCH more accurate than the 1200 I had. Not to mention how much CHEAPER it is.......
 
I have the chargemaster and I like it. It does through a few tenths of more every so often with Varget but it still works good for me, IMO. Here is a review of 3 that may be of interest. Dispenser Reviews
 
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the reason the BR crowd has proven thrown charges is because most, if not all of them load AT THE RANGE. They have no building with zero wind movement to use electricity and electronic dispensors. Loading at the firing line has long since been a standard. This is also because a lot of them use more rounds in one match than say a 50-100rnd box may hold. So loading "on-the-fly" has been the accepted practice.

BUT, Like I said,...take a GOOD thrower,..Like a HARREL, and throw charges. THEN, weigh them on a digital scale. You will find that they are the same as if they were dispensed by a digital combo. I have done it, time and time again at home, and the reality is,..they are both the same. The difference is when you "short stroke" or don't keep in tune with your thrown loads,..the thrower may vary,...but the dispensor won't.

I have throwers,..and sometimes just like to see how the thrower does,..and for an all around estimate,..the dispensor does better.

Also,..some of the 1000yd guys have tried varying loads by a few .1"s of a grain,..and see ZERO difference at 1000yds. If you are in the "node", a .1gr variance means nothing,..throwers are just faster and don't require elctricity at the range.

Try this,..ever see someone throwing charges at a 600-1000yd match??? I havn't,..not that that doesn't mean it happens,...I just see what I see. Varmint BR matches use a lot of bullets for point blank work. You have only a spotter at 600-1000yds, no sighter target. SOOOOOO you don't get to track your shots by 1/4-1/2 a bullet hole. We show up with loaded rounds, and shoot. Funny how many world records have been set with digitaly dispensed charges and not thrown charges. I know a TON of guys who throw charges,....but even shooting my FACTORY CLASS rifle,..with dispensed charges during a LV/HV/HC/FC match, were they were throwing charges, I have not only won factory class,..but bested some of the strict benchrest rifle scores.

The dispensor technology in the PACT and RCBS units (made by PACT BTW) has made them a superb reloading tool. Although not as fast,..you can seat a bullet while the next charge is being dispensed. 6 of one,..half dozen of another. MHO
 
One thing I have going for me, when I replaced my last digital scale I bought the RCBS 1500 scale. So all I have to buy is the dispenser.

However, I am more confused than ever. All of our load data is given in grains....or weight. When we use a scales we duplicate the weight of our desired load data. When we use a powder measure or "thrower" as you guys call it we measure a volume that we have found to equate to a given weight. Within a specific "lot number" of powder, we would assume that the exact duplication of volume would render the same weight. Another lot number may not generate the same equality. So I'll go back to my earlier question, if I end up with 27.5 gr. of H335 for my load, whether it be by measure or weight, what is the difference? 27.5 gr. is 27.5 gr. I can consistently throw charges with my RCBS Uni-flow's that don't deviate more than 0.1 grains in the 15-35 grain range.

I'm not trying to be argumentative here, but as much as I think I want a new RCBS Chargemaster, is accuracy, convenience or fun the reason? I am thinking the two later reasons are the most valid.
 
Everything taken into here! My Lyman isn't perfect by any means! You still have to pay attn.

It will still throw perfect loads 97% most of the time!

I should reflect on what I said earlier! I set my THROWER
to within probably 1. to .5 grns! Then I let the LYMAN do the rest, which at that close is basically trickling.

If I ever have one go over, (which never happens often) I pick up the pan and dump it back in the thrower!

I load ball to long grain extruded powder and the Lyman will handle it all! No experience with the Chargemaster though most of my equipment is RCBS.
 
Hidalgo, your supposed to cross-check your loads once in awhile and I hope it wasn't your rifle!
Its always a good idea to have a second opinion! (Like another scale. (I do!!!) Sorry your Lyman didn't work out. I like mine!
 
Quote:
claimbuster,
It may not seem logical but the benchrest competition shooters have pretty much proven that volume measured charges are more accurate under 300 yards.

Lots of guesses why. But the winners are not weighing charges. It is hard to argue with success. At ranges beyond 300 weighed charges are better because they have less SD. SD is increasingly important with range, no big deal at shorter ranges.

Jack



Most Br shooters powder measures have click adjustment that adjust the volume, depending on powder type each click will represent a certain part of 1gr of powder. In my powder measure 50 clicks equal 27.5gr of H-322 52 clicks equal 28gr N-133. Between clicks like a Bruno measure you will also have 4 click adjustments to find tune in the tenths of a grain 44.1 clicks equal 24.4gr of H-322 and so on. BR shooter have problems like anyone else try to keep the volume the same as you move the clicks adjustment and alot of measurers have been modified. If you look at most BR shooters they use around 30gr of powder and they shoot a max 300yd target
 
I'm on my 5th frankford arsenal intellidropper. Warranty service is great. But I question the machines quality! I'm about to go back to the old fashion powder drop dispenser!!
 
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