Availability of #4 Buckshot

ackleyman

New member
With this year's sell out of all buckshot, people may elect to get back into reloading their own.

On Your Tube, BubbaRoundtreeoutdoors does a great job teaching.

Here is his last video, and his patterns at 60 yards are pretty impressive for predators and self defense. Wade goes into chokes also.

Long range Predator with T shot and #4 bucks shot are covered also.

 
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In the 1980's the FBI switched from 00 Buck to 4 Buck for law enforcement. They switched back to 00 Buck after a time when real world shooting data lead them to believe that the smaller buckshot lacked reliable penetration and stopping power at longer distances on determined or heavily clothed humans. I'd be interested to see Bubba have empirical data to the contrary.
 
To follow up on GC's comments.... The FBI determined they needed al least 12" penetration to take out a target. #4 did not do it. They recommend no buckshot smaller than #1 for self defense.
 
His video's use loads and patterns for 00 and #4 buck, patterns are pretty darn good. Civilian use would not include cars, windshields, Dry wall and would be very close range, more than likely 25 yards or less.

I was thinking that the #4 Buck loads for predator use.

My self defense shotguns are loaded with #1 buckshot.

How long it is going to take for ammunition makers to get caught up is anyone's guess.

One of my mentors growing up was a local city LEO. He was shot through the front door as he knocked on the door. He was responding to a Domestic Dispute, shotgun was loaded with 7 1/2 quail loads...we are still devastated by the loss. James "Red" Shaw, 1972.
 
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Yeah when the shot gets too large for a charge bar and traditional wad type reload it can get interesting when first getting started. That guy seems to know what he's doing.
As far defensive loads for the house i wouldn't go any larger than #4 buck.
Patrol use obviously has potential for different situations. But most have m4s now for range.
 
Keith, please post a link to the video. He has so many videos I'm not sure which one to view. You mentioned self defense, thus my comments.

Honestly, I'm not a fan of Bubba. I don't care for his broad testing methods and I'm critical of how he counts hits and the expected effectiveness of those hits. If a pellet hits anywhere Bubba says it is a good hit and counts it as such. From brisket to tail it's a good pattern. A pellet in the gut of a deer or coyote isn't incapacitating. That is hardly a good hit. Neither is a single pellet through a lung, at least not immediately incapacitating. Running deer with dogs as he does, I guess they will eventually run the deer to the ground. However I fail to see how that is a good thing. But I haven't seen the specific video you are referencing in this thread so I'm speaking in general about what I see in his videos. My take on Bubba.
 
Originally Posted By: ackleymanHis video's use loads and patterns for 00 and #4 buck, patterns are pretty darn good. Civilian use would not include cars, windshields, Dry wall and would be very close range, more than likely 25 yards or less.

I was thinking that the #4 Buck loads for predator use.

My self defense shotguns are loaded with #1 buckshot.

How long it is going to take for ammunition makers to get caught up is anyone's guess.

One of my mentors growing up was a local city LEO. He was shot through the front door as he knocked on the door. He was responding to a Domestic Dispute, shotgun was loaded with 7 1/2 quail loads...we are still devastated by the loss.

I LOVE #4 for predators. We tinkered with 12 gauge handloads and I was pretty impressed with the results.

As far as using them for self defense, well, I wouldn't recommend trying to catch a load of #4...
 
I wouldn't want to get shot by a load of 4 Buck. I've used it on coyote for a long time. But a coyote doesn't weigh 200 pounds, doesn't get hopped up on meth, doesn't wear heavy clothing in winter and doesn't shoot back. I once shot an empty 20 ounce water bottle at 60 yards with copper plated 4 Buck. One of those 24 caliber pellets hit that bottle on the edge of a hard molded line on the bottle. That pellet flattened out the size of a nickel and stayed inside the empty bottle. That's not much penetration.
 
There is #4 shot and number 4 buckshot.

#4 shot weighs about 3.22 gr per pellet.

Number 4 buckshot weighs about 20.27 gr per pellet.
 
at home defense distances I'd say a load of #4buckshot in a pattern smaller than a dinner plate is going stop anybody with out a ballistic vest on.
 
Originally Posted By: GCI wouldn't want to get shot by a load of 4 Buck. I've used it on coyote for a long time. But a coyote doesn't weigh 200 pounds, doesn't get hopped up on meth, doesn't wear heavy clothing in winter and doesn't shoot back. I once shot an empty 20 ounce water bottle at 60 yards with copper plated 4 Buck. One of those 24 caliber pellets hit that bottle on the edge of a hard molded line on the bottle. That pellet flattened out the size of a nickel and stayed inside the empty bottle. That's not much penetration.

Meth heads still need to pump blood to function. #4 will take down a deer so Johnny Crackhead shouldn't be a problem at 50 feet. I've seen coyotes take a .308 and get up...doesn't mean I'm going to stop using them.

Besides a load to the chest and their pump is mush...
 
Originally Posted By: SnowmanMoOriginally Posted By: GCI wouldn't want to get shot by a load of 4 Buck. I've used it on coyote for a long time. But a coyote doesn't weigh 200 pounds, doesn't get hopped up on meth, doesn't wear heavy clothing in winter and doesn't shoot back. I once shot an empty 20 ounce water bottle at 60 yards with copper plated 4 Buck. One of those 24 caliber pellets hit that bottle on the edge of a hard molded line on the bottle. That pellet flattened out the size of a nickel and stayed inside the empty bottle. That's not much penetration.

Meth heads still need to pump blood to function. #4 will take down a deer so Johnny Crackhead shouldn't be a problem at 50 feet. I've seen coyotes take a .308 and get up...doesn't mean I'm going to stop using them.

Besides a load to the chest and their pump is mush...

Number 4 buckshot would work much better.
 
Let's make sure we are discussing the same situation, the OP stated that Bubba says the patterns in the video were impressive for predators and self defense at 60 yards.

I like 4 Buck. Like 4 Buck a lot, killed a lot of critters with it. I have killed coyote over 50 yards with it numerous times. I have no argument with that, though I would like to see the video and the patterns.

At typical home defense ranges a load of 4 Buck would be devastating against human attackers. I know exactly how well my Benelli patterns and out to 30-35 yards (which is well beyond the typical home defense ranges) I think it would prove very effective on an attacker. Now remember, that's not what was said, Bubba said 60 yards. Also remember, the FBI and LE actually used 4 Buck against armed adversaries and found penetration and stopping power lacking at longer distances. That isn't a guess, it happened often enough that LE shifted back to larger buckshot.

The thought about buckshot for LE has actually gravitated to something in the middle, 1 Buck is a superb choice. 1 Buck has an improved pellet count over the old standard 00 Buck and yet remains large enough and heavy enough to be give reliable penetration at longer distances.

Still waiting to see which video Keith is referring to.
 


Keep in mind that Wade is in the lower part of SC, and their main focus is killing deer on the run being chased by dogs. Tremendous deer population down in that area.

At this time,factory buckshot of any size is hard to impossible to find on the net....more scarce than toilet paper.

I wish that Lee made a #1 buckshot mold, their #4 and OO throw very nice buckshot.
 
i have a fair amount of factory loaded #4 buck. i might list some up for sale when i get time.

if anybody is looking for some, keep looking in the classified part over the next couple of days.
 
Originally Posted By: GCLet's make sure we are discussing the same situation, the OP stated that Bubba says the patterns in the video were impressive for predators and self defense at 60 yards.

I like 4 Buck. Like 4 Buck a lot, killed a lot of critters with it. I have killed coyote over 50 yards with it numerous times. I have no argument with that, though I would like to see the video and the patterns.

At typical home defense ranges a load of 4 Buck would be devastating against human attackers. I know exactly how well my Benelli patterns and out to 30-35 yards (which is well beyond the typical home defense ranges) I think it would prove very effective on an attacker. Now remember, that's not what was said, Bubba said 60 yards. Also remember, the FBI and LE actually used 4 Buck against armed adversaries and found penetration and stopping power lacking at longer distances. That isn't a guess, it happened often enough that LE shifted back to larger buckshot.

The thought about buckshot for LE has actually gravitated to something in the middle, 1 Buck is a superb choice. 1 Buck has an improved pellet count over the old standard 00 Buck and yet remains large enough and heavy enough to be give reliable penetration at longer distances.

Still waiting to see which video Keith is referring to.

Those are some great points. Many of which I agree with. I think that 60 yards is a "fantasy" self defense scenario for the majority of folks. While distances like those may be a bit more realistic for law enforcement, that's why they are carrying carbines in their cruisers these days.

So while I agree that #4 wouldn't be my choice for a self defense situation, I wouldn't choose a shotgun for a 60 yard engagement in the first place. Not with ANY shot size or choke.

Don't forget the "B" in TAB+1--Be aware of your target AND beyond! You own ALL those pellets going downrange, and regardless of how good the pattern was, many of those pellets still missed.

So I think you bring up a good point about "home defense" distances. In a house, sure. In a mall parking lot...not a chance.
 
Originally Posted By: SnowmanMoOriginally Posted By: GCLet's make sure we are discussing the same situation, the OP stated that Bubba says the patterns in the video were impressive for predators and self defense at 60 yards.

I like 4 Buck. Like 4 Buck a lot, killed a lot of critters with it. I have killed coyote over 50 yards with it numerous times. I have no argument with that, though I would like to see the video and the patterns.

At typical home defense ranges a load of 4 Buck would be devastating against human attackers. I know exactly how well my Benelli patterns and out to 30-35 yards (which is well beyond the typical home defense ranges) I think it would prove very effective on an attacker. Now remember, that's not what was said, Bubba said 60 yards. Also remember, the FBI and LE actually used 4 Buck against armed adversaries and found penetration and stopping power lacking at longer distances. That isn't a guess, it happened often enough that LE shifted back to larger buckshot.

The thought about buckshot for LE has actually gravitated to something in the middle, 1 Buck is a superb choice. 1 Buck has an improved pellet count over the old standard 00 Buck and yet remains large enough and heavy enough to be give reliable penetration at longer distances.

Still waiting to see which video Keith is referring to.

Those are some great points. Many of which I agree with. I think that 60 yards is a "fantasy" self defense scenario for the majority of folks. While distances like those may be a bit more realistic for law enforcement, that's why they are carrying carbines in their cruisers these days.

So while I agree that #4 wouldn't be my choice for a self defense situation, I wouldn't choose a shotgun for a 60 yard engagement in the first place. Not with ANY shot size or choke.

Don't forget the "B" in TAB+1--Be aware of your target AND beyond! You own ALL those pellets going downrange, and regardless of how good the pattern was, many of those pellets still missed.

So I think you bring up a good point about "home defense" distances. In a house, sure. In a mall parking lot...not a chance.

For me, that would depend on what other weapons i had on hand and the severity of the threat.
 
Originally Posted By: crapshootOriginally Posted By: SnowmanMoOriginally Posted By: GCLet's make sure we are discussing the same situation, the OP stated that Bubba says the patterns in the video were impressive for predators and self defense at 60 yards.

I like 4 Buck. Like 4 Buck a lot, killed a lot of critters with it. I have killed coyote over 50 yards with it numerous times. I have no argument with that, though I would like to see the video and the patterns.

At typical home defense ranges a load of 4 Buck would be devastating against human attackers. I know exactly how well my Benelli patterns and out to 30-35 yards (which is well beyond the typical home defense ranges) I think it would prove very effective on an attacker. Now remember, that's not what was said, Bubba said 60 yards. Also remember, the FBI and LE actually used 4 Buck against armed adversaries and found penetration and stopping power lacking at longer distances. That isn't a guess, it happened often enough that LE shifted back to larger buckshot.

The thought about buckshot for LE has actually gravitated to something in the middle, 1 Buck is a superb choice. 1 Buck has an improved pellet count over the old standard 00 Buck and yet remains large enough and heavy enough to be give reliable penetration at longer distances.

Still waiting to see which video Keith is referring to.

Those are some great points. Many of which I agree with. I think that 60 yards is a "fantasy" self defense scenario for the majority of folks. While distances like those may be a bit more realistic for law enforcement, that's why they are carrying carbines in their cruisers these days.

So while I agree that #4 wouldn't be my choice for a self defense situation, I wouldn't choose a shotgun for a 60 yard engagement in the first place. Not with ANY shot size or choke.

Don't forget the "B" in TAB+1--Be aware of your target AND beyond! You own ALL those pellets going downrange, and regardless of how good the pattern was, many of those pellets still missed.

So I think you bring up a good point about "home defense" distances. In a house, sure. In a mall parking lot...not a chance.

For me, that would depend on what other weapons i had on hand and the severity of the threat.

Also a good point. Sometimes it seems as though guys fantasize about the apocalypse and the idea that they are going to have their entire 52 gun arsenal, 55,000 rounds right there, on hand, at the exact moment they need it, meanwhile the evil doers are armed with a BB gun.

The reality is, when things hop off, the best weapon you have is your wits and your training. I would happily take something over nothing, but I do tend to choose my firearms carefully in order to give me the best chances. When I am out hunting, I have my Glock with me, loaded for 2 legged coyotes...you never know.
 
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