Expected velocity out of 223 reloads

Originally Posted By: HuntingbobSo does the switch to a magnum primer alone give you a velocity increase? Or does it allow you to up the charge before you run into any primer issues which in turn increases velocity.


The second of those two for the most part.
 
When it comes to primers, there's a lot of variables that come into play. Using the same brand primer ie Federal, CCI, Remington etc - going from a standard primer to a magnum usually doesn't increase your velocity much at all - one normally switches over to magnum primers for extreme cold weather shooting with hard to ignite powders such as H110.

If you change brands, that's sometimes the fly in the ointment, as with large pistol - going from Federal 150 to CCI 350 there's a big pressure change using the same amount of powder. John Linebaugh advised me several years ago to use Winchester LP primers in his 500 magnums as opposed to the CCI 350, as the CCI 350 caused a 15,000 psi spike in his tests run at Hornady facilities. I use the CCI 350 in the 44 magnum in the dead of winter, but never in the other 3 seasons but I'm also using WW 296 in the 44 mag.

Going from Federal 210 standard rifle to Federal 215 hardly any change in velocity in 308/30-06, but you will get good ignition in -20*F weather using the 215.

Sometimes going to a slightly hotter primer yields better groups with some powders. A 223 might benefit going to a Federal 205 as opposed to the Remington 7 1/2 - or going to the Remington in place of the Federal. I've found H335 groups far better using the Remington 7 1/2 instead of the Fed 205M. That Remington 7 1/2 throws a shower of sparks upon ignition, whereas the Fed is a very controlled but short flame.

Lots I don't understand about primers, so I just try to find the right combo for best accuracy in my rifles and don't try to over think "stuff".
 
Most published loads are for .223 and a 24" barrel. I would've never thought that there was much difference until I started lading TAC and X-terminator and started looking at Western Powders Data. It can be 3 or 4 grains worth of powder difference. I get about 3150 with 55gr SPs using TAC in an 18" faxon barrel. I get 3075 in a 16" DPMS. It's a really accurate load and they aren't quite max. I get about the same velocity with X-terminator but not as accurate. I haven't seen much difference at all switching primers from WSR to CCI 450s or 41s. Some people say they have.
The military calls for around 28 grains of I believe it's 844. It's non canister grade H335. You can find the specs online. Most people would never load it that hot. Keep in mind that a lot of testing gets done for burn rate,accuracy, pressure and speed before the lot number of ammo ever make it to the field
 
Huntingbob,

Your velocity numbers seem right. Barrel length can have a significant effect on your velocity. I have a 223’s with 16” and 22” barrels. On average I get at least 100 FPS in the 22” barrels vs the 16” barrel.

The brand and batch of brass that you load as well as how deep you seat the bullet will all affect velocity and pressures. I’ve loaded with CFE 223 a lot and really like it. For reasonable 223 ranges (200-300 yards max), temperature sensitivity and 100-200 FPS muzzle velocity differences are not all that big of a factor. As you shoot more and reload more, max velocity will become much less important than consistency. Yes you could go outside recommend max powder loads and might still get ok groups but it isn’t really worth it. The 223 isn’t really a long range cartridge and all you might gain in loading hot is extending the effective range by another 25 or 50 yards. The best way to extend your range is to switch cartridges.
 
Originally Posted By: BrianIDHuntingbob,

Your velocity numbers seem right. Barrel length can have a significant effect on your velocity. I have a 223’s with 16” and 22” barrels. On average I get at least 100 FPS in the 22” barrels vs the 16” barrel.

The brand and batch of brass that you load as well as how deep you seat the bullet will all affect velocity and pressures. I’ve loaded with CFE 223 a lot and really like it. For reasonable 223 ranges (200-300 yards max), temperature sensitivity and 100-200 FPS muzzle velocity differences are not all that big of a factor. As you shoot more and reload more, max velocity will become much less important than consistency. Yes you could go outside recommend max powder loads and might still get ok groups but it isn’t really worth it. The 223 isn’t really a long range cartridge and all you might gain in loading hot is extending the effective range by another 25 or 50 yards. The best way to extend your range is to switch cartridges.

Makes sense to me. With my 24" barrel and 25.5 grains of Varget (99% full) under 55-grain bullets, I get 3100 fps. I could probably push things a bit, but I don't like living too close to the edge. If I want more speed, I grab the 22-250.
 
Originally Posted By: Rock KnockerThere is little point to pushing things crazy hard, but one of the only benefits I've seen from a BHW barrel is being able to push things, velocity is what they're good at, accuracy is trickier. They keep pressures down so much it's hard to even push things, you got to go way off the charts to do it.

When I started loading the 65gr it was for a possibility of a hog hunt in the future and I wanted to bring my AR and I wanted something that would hit hard. In my first test batch I shot the best group my gun ever shot, way up at the highest charge I had brought to test, I had it labeled "DANGER". Light pressure signs and not good for brass longevity but this ammo has a mission and 25% of the brass stays in the snow or grass after the first loading, I only shoot them in the winter and less than 100 shots a year.

H335 shoots well in my gun at light or strong loadings with 50-55gr bullets and non magnum primers. Stick powders seem better when pushed hard but accuracy comes apart if the powder is compressed and it pretty much all compresses before pressure signs, you need to move way up in bullet weight or move to a faster burning stick powder.

Here's my one time freak small 3 shot group with this little carbine with CFE and 65 SGK, dont make fun of the target, I look through a 1-4 VXR with fat crosshairs and big circles are easiest to center on.
49667845496_a83edc137a_c.jpg


You should not be shooting H335 in anything with non magnum primers. And you shouldn't be shooting anything but magnum primers in an AR (or any other gun with a floating firing pin).

Remember when you first started handloading and everyone told you to buy a reloading manual? The slam fire danger and that ball powders require magnum primers are in the book.
 
Originally Posted By: HuntingbobI’m not getting the velocity I was expecting out of my reloads.

I know I’m loosing some velocity with a 18 inch barrel, but I was expecting more.

The Hornady manual posts amazing velocities in the 5.56 section for a 20 inch barrel. I just got to looking at that last night and comparing my notes with that section.

I seem to get a full 200fps less than the book says and that is shooting the same 20 inch barrel.

The Sierra book is much more realistic. I seem to get 50-75fps more and 50-75fps less depending. That makes more sense.
 
Originally Posted By: arlaunchOriginally Posted By: HuntingbobI’m not getting the velocity I was expecting out of my reloads.

I know I’m loosing some velocity with a 18 inch barrel, but I was expecting more.

The Hornady manual posts amazing velocities in the 5.56 section for a 20 inch barrel. I just got to looking at that last night and comparing my notes with that section.

I seem to get a full 200fps less than the book says and that is shooting the same 20 inch barrel.

The Sierra book is much more realistic. I seem to get 50-75fps more and 50-75fps less depending. That makes more sense.

just highlights the fact that every barrel/chamber is a little bit different from the next one. and why even with published "max" data we still do load development to know where max is for OUR chamber/barrel.

ironically - my 20" barrel gets nearly identical velocities as the Hornady 20" barrel data even theirs is tested in the citadel barrel and mines a WOA. Im referring to the "service rifle" data section. im just a smidge slower than the 5.56 20" barrel data however.

but thats why we test, so we know data on *OUR* equipment - not a published manual's test barrel's data.
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I'm interested in how things are going.

I just got some HBN bullet coating to play with, I've only tested 20 lubed bullets in my BHW barrel, no velocity test but groups seemed to tighten and varried much less from test charge to test charge.
 
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