Ditch the 6.5CM AR10 for a 6.8SPC, 6.5Grendel, or 243LBC?

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cgbills

New member
So here is my predicament. I have an AR10 in 6.5 Creedmoor that shoots great, but is a bit of a beast. I built it primarily for target shooting, but used it for pigs in TX. With scope it is just under 14.5lbs. It is a great shooter and does well suppressed, but the weight is a big strike against the AR10. Normally I would not have a problem carrying a heavy rifle around (I do it with my Ruger Precision in 6.5 CM), but there is more to the story.

The weight is made worse as I am going to be purchasing a dedicated thermal scope. While I have a PVS14 for navigation, I cannot afford a thermal scope and a thermal scanner. This means I would need to use my rifle scope (somthing in the range of 2x) for scanning. It would be a task to offhand a 14lb AR10 for scanning. Strike 2 for the AR10. While I have thought about putting the AR10 on a diet, AR10's just by their very nature are heavy. Even a slim and trim AR10 would be harder to scan offhanded with than an AR15.

Also I have a fair amount of money tied up in my AR10. I am in the process of consolidating my gear and guns and selling some stuff off. I already have a distance rifle in my Ruger Precision 6.5CM, and could dedicate a big chunk of money toward my thermal fund if I sell my AR10.

So this leads me to considering a dedicated AR15 with thermal to take the place of my AR10 which would receive the thermal. I know the AR10 has more energy and terminal ballistics for hogs, but 6.8SPC, 6.5Grendel, and 243LBC all seem to have plenty of that for even large hogs inside 300 yards. This seems to be about the limit for shooting under thermal (or at least the thermal I can afford). If I need to shoot further in the daylight, I could just pull out my Ruger Precision. Would you ditch the AR10?

Also if I were to do this, I am leaning toward the 243LBC in a 20in lighter profile barrel. At one point I had a 243lbc, and 95gr Sierra TMK's would ring steel quite well at 600. Do you think the 243LBC is adequate for hogs inside 300? The flatter shooting would help with errors in range estimation under thermal too. I would also be open to 6x6.8.

Thanks for any input you have.
 
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Have you considered running a tripod? I use a scanner but also scan with my rifle alot especially in large open fields and with it sitting on a tripod it's easy. If i was going down the AR15 trail i would go with a 6.8spc. great speed out of 16" barrels and they absolutely hammer animals. My only experience hunting with a 6.8 is deer and coyotes and it does as good as my 243 AR10 but in a smaller package and stupid cheap factory ammo
 
The LBC would do fine under 300 yards. If the big doesn't die it would be due to shooter error. I love the 6MM bullet selection that can be put to use in that one. Picking one that will work is like being a kid in a candy store.

Greg
 
Man that is a heavy creedmoor. The 6.8 is a great option. Will do everything you need with a thermal. But not fur friendly on smaller yotes and fox if that matters. Sounds like you hunt hogs so I suspect it will be perfect.
 
Originally Posted By: moog5050Man that is a heavy creedmoor. The 6.8 is a great option. Will do everything you need with a thermal. But not fur friendly on smaller yotes and fox if that matters. Sounds like you hunt hogs so I suspect it will be perfect.

It is a heavy beast lol. It is a 20in HBAR, so that is part of it. Also it has a large Tango 6 5-30x56 on top. I live in the Midwest, but have friends in TX that I hog hunt with. This is part of why I am leaning toward a 6mm wildcat because I use it for coyotes most of the time. While I do not care about keeping the pelts, I think flat shooting rounds are helpful with predators. I guess the other option would be to ditch the Ruger Precision, keep the AR10 and do a lightweight 6.8. lol. I think I do need to sell one rifle to help fund a good thermal.
 
Scanning with a rifle mounted optic is silly and dangerous regardless if the rifle weighs 14 lbs or 8 lbs.

It's just as dangerous as using the scope on your deer rifle to scan for deer during daylight, instead of using binos or a spotting scope.

Since when has it ever been acceptable to use your rifle optic to investigate possible targets and thus also point your muzzle towards those unknown/unsafe targets? And you're going to be swinging a loaded rifle left/right all over the place and aiming towards any thermal hit you see to ID with that loaded rifle pointed towards it. Think about it...
 
Originally Posted By: DiRTY DOGScanning with a rifle mounted optic is silly and dangerous regardless if the rifle weighs 14 lbs or 8 lbs.

It's just as dangerous as using the scope on your deer rifle to scan for deer during daylight, instead of using binos or a spotting scope.

Since when has it ever been acceptable to use your rifle optic to investigate possible targets and thus also point your muzzle towards those unknown/unsafe targets? And you're going to be swinging a loaded rifle left/right all over the place and aiming towards any thermal hit you see to ID with that loaded rifle pointed towards it. Think about it...

Do you keep your muzzle pointed at the ground 100% of your time while on stand until your ready to pull the trigger? Or is it sitting on sticks or bipod angled up? Is it physically attached to your shooting rest to where there is no chance of it falling over and hitting the ground? I
It could just be me but standing 6'3 with my rifle mechanically attached to a heavy duty tripod, and always angled down towards the ground (roughly 5"10 to my ball head and looking down for a 3' tall animal) is that unsafe. Now if there are multiple people where i could barrel sweep someone? That's a different story.
 
1-800-bca-.243
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Or a 6x6.8
Rifle weight becomes a non issue when you incorporate a good tripod and ballhead into your set up.
As far a panning around with gun mounted optics we do it quite a bit. We set up close together and dont move. Safety on and finger out of trigger guard. If we were set up in a place where it wasn't safe to scan with the rifle I wouldn't consider that place to be safe enough to shoot with a rifle. With that said most of the time we do scan with handheld but when coyotes are coming in or we're trying to see a little farther and little more clearly the higher magnification on the gun mounted optics is a definite advantage and your on the gun when it is time to shoot. I also keep both eyes open and can keep track of others at my side while scanning with the other. Muzzle sweeping is what must be avoided. It's not like you just continually spinning 360 degrees when you're scanning with a rifle. You basically have a designated area that you don't go out of and that designated area doesn't cause you to sweep anything that you shouldn't be sweeping with your muzzle.
When the coyotes are vocal and you know they're in a certain area and they're not going to make it to you without showing themselves in that general area then often times it's more effective to scan with the higher magnification gun mounted thermal. Remember a good scanning handheld is not necessarily the best for iding because you're wanting a bigger field of view with less magnification. It is another reason to go with 640 core thermal because you don't need as much magnification to get the clarity and you can keep that big field of view so you know what you're coming up on while you're scanning.
We are already standing out there with $16,000 worth of thermal optics. I let my hunting buddy use my xp28 and I use my xd19a. It's hard to go back to the xd19a after having the xp50 to look through on the rifle.
 
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If you get all crazy let me know I might sell an XP 50 Trail an xd19a and a 6x6.8 with about 300 rounds of 70 bt's. Trail has 2.5 years of the 3 year warranty left that I would work with a buyer on.
I about threw it completely under the bus the other day when the POI shifted up 3" one time out in the warm sun but man it came right back when out of the direct sunlight and it's just been money. I'm having a "the neighbors are selling 40 acres" liquidation sale.
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Pretty much every hunter safety web site says the same thing: never use your rifle scope like a pair of binos to spot game. This is from Alaska Fish & Game, but what do they know about hunting...

There's a huge difference between having your rifle at the ready on the stand vs continuously scanning the horizon for game with your rifle optic. Clearly you understand that.
 
Okay dirty dog you're right it's so much better to pick up an object off in the background with less magnification then go to your rifle and id it. Have you ever hunted with thermal? It is always best to be able to ID with gun mounted thermal optics or whatever gun mounted optics you have. It is not safer to have gun mounted optics with less resolution than what you need to ID. What you don't understand is with my gun mounted thermal optics I can see a mouse or a bird in a tree at 200 yards without doing anything other then glancing. I can tell you how many raccoons are in a tree line probably at 600 yards without looking too hard. I know what's there the first time I glance around. Most handhelds with adequate field of view don't have that great of an ability to do the same. What you know about this subject and what you think you know about this subject are two totally different things apparently.
You can detect any living object farther than you could shoot it most of the time with quality 640 core thermal. Iding this object is the crucial part and that is what gun mounted thermal does or should do hence you're going to be pointing your firearm in the general direction of this object before you shoot it.
 
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You're like the kid at the hunter safety course that ask where to point your gun if there's a helicopter in the air, someone to your left, right, in front of you and behind you and a bird dog at your feet.
 
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Originally Posted By: 1badsheeIf it were my money I would ditch the Ruger, keep the AR10 and build a 6.8.

Well I did decide to sell the Ruger and keep the AR10. Once I make my thermal purchase, I'll do the AR15 upper. I know 6.8 is great, but the 6mm wildcats seem to keep calling my name cause of flatter trajectories. I need some numbers to put in my ballistics calculator, so I can see if the 6mm's offer any significant advantage 300 yards and in.
 
I'm a big fan of the 6.5 grendel. Hits like a hammer, can reach out, fun to shoot. I built a 16in just for night hunting from a ladder.
 
Originally Posted By: cgbillsOriginally Posted By: 1badsheeIf it were my money I would ditch the Ruger, keep the AR10 and build a 6.8.

Well I did decide to sell the Ruger and keep the AR10. Once I make my thermal purchase, I'll do the AR15 upper. I know 6.8 is great, but the 6mm wildcats seem to keep calling my name cause of flatter trajectories. I need some numbers to put in my ballistics calculator, so I can see if the 6mm's offer any significant advantage 300 yards and in.

Inside 300 all things equal using a 16" barrel that the 6.8 works great in I doubt there would be much difference.
 


I have an old Bushmaster 6,8 Spec II of 10 years.
Great AR and a box full of Silver State ammo.
Runs great with my Specwar 7,62.
I put a Timney trigger in it.
 
Not sure if anyone that posted here has shot any hogs at all. I can tell you that a 6.5 Grendel does NOT put them down with the authority that a 6.5CM does. I have shot next to guys in TX, me with my AR15 in 6.5G and them with 6.5 CM bolts...their hogs don't run near as far.

Yes, before some internet expert chimes in about shot placement...if you could hit everyone of them between the eyes or in the ear, they would all drop. Yeah, I get it...go ahead and do that at night after the first shot is fired Einstein..

The 6.5 Grendel does make a great yote/pig combo rig, but you have to understand it's limitations, it's more of a Jack-of-all-trades, Master of none.
 
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