Have been doing a little searching on this, and hearing varying answers. Some say certain 77 grain match bullets run fine 9 twist, others say won't work. I'm looking at using a factory 9 twist Kimber in .223 with 22" barrel for deer as compared to spending the money to do a 25-222 Mag or 25-204 to run 90 Sierras etc.
What's the heaviest bullet that works in a 9 twist .223 Remington?
- Thread starter gunsbam45
- Start date
Weight of bullet to be stabilized is variable based on design. Some of the older flat base semi spitizers will stabilize fine while a high BC ( more aerodynamic design) that s lighter in weight won t.
More specifically to your question, a 9 twist 223 is often said to stabilize a bullet up to around 70 grains; but it depends.
I can tell you my sons 223 with a 9 twist works great with a 65 grain Sierra GK !
More specifically to your question, a 9 twist 223 is often said to stabilize a bullet up to around 70 grains; but it depends.
I can tell you my sons 223 with a 9 twist works great with a 65 grain Sierra GK !
OK. I'm hearing purty much everyone say a 69 is good to go. Just wondering if I can get away with a 77 BTHP of some design before I spend the money. I'm also curious about running the 40 Nosler Ballistic Tip on the low end. I'm going to be using my 9.5 single six in 22MAG for close up sneak in cats, as well as coons and badgers etc. so I don't blow them up, but thinking on trying a 40 in .223 on cats out past 50 yards & c if I can get away with it. My 22-250s were 14 twist running 55 grainers & destroyed cats half the time. Who knows how well they shot on paper but they got it done good enough accuracy wise back then. I'm going for good grouping at 100 now and will be testing on out to 300 near future. I wonder if 9 twist is hard on the fast 40s at 3700ish?
Rock Knocker
Active member
I would give the 77s a try in that barrel. Make sure to chose a good powder, you will need as much velocity as possible.
I havent tried them on deer but have heard good things about the .22 barnes copper bullets. I just started testing the 53gr tsx but havent shot any animals. I have them tearing along at 3470 fps and for most deer hunting ranges I would expect them to do well for a 223. I would suggest a larger caliber though, I made the mistake of using 69gr SMK only once, definitely use 65 SGK before the SMK.
I havent tried them on deer but have heard good things about the .22 barnes copper bullets. I just started testing the 53gr tsx but havent shot any animals. I have them tearing along at 3470 fps and for most deer hunting ranges I would expect them to do well for a 223. I would suggest a larger caliber though, I made the mistake of using 69gr SMK only once, definitely use 65 SGK before the SMK.
I'm able to stabilize Hornady 75 gr BTHPs in a Stevens 200 .223. However, it will not stabilize the Hornady 75 gr AMAX/ELDM. The rule of thumb is up to a 70 gr for a 9 twist. However, your barrel can be tighter than a 9 tw or slower than a 9 tw based on the button slipping or hard/soft spots in the metal when cutting.
Bottom line, the only way to know for sure is to buy a box and try them.
Bottom line, the only way to know for sure is to buy a box and try them.
The Heaviest isn't always the best. You can get to the point where you can't move them fast enough to open at any distance.
As far as the 1-9 twist. The ability to stabilize bullets has to do with their length not weight. When all you could buy were cup and core soft points weight was useful, but with mono-metal, extreme aerodynamic shapes and plastic tips length comes more into play.
I shoot a 1-9 22-204 and it just dotes on 40gr NBT's and that bullet at around 4000 fps has been my goto pelt hunting bullet for a long time. It is so accurate and performs so well that I haven't even bothered to experiment with anything else other than some Lead-Frees.
Instead of looking for the heaviest bullet for the 223 I'd be looking at a bullet that was designed for hunting larger game, Nosler Partition, Win. 64gr Power Point or one of the Barnes Monos, I'm sure there are a couple others. Bullet design is quite important, I'm old enough to remember when the 243 hit the shelves and the hoopla about it being a just the Hammer of Thor on deer, but it's bullets were a problem, we were getting in to higher velocities than in the past, I had problems with heavies not opening at distance and gave up on the 243 as a big game round and went back to the 250-3000 and 257 Roberts both with decades of big game hunting under their belts and moving at a slightly slower pace where cup and core bullets shine.
As far as building a 25-222RM/25-204, great cartridges, I've been shooting the 25-204 successfully for 15 years BUT it needs the same length action as a 250 Sav. or 257 Roberts. I built mine because I had a .378 boltface action laying around and needed a deer rifle for that fall and it was cheaper to build than to buy a new rifle and there were no really petite actions in a deer capable cartridge at the time. Today I'd have built a 25-22 Nosler, 25 Grendel or just go with the 6.5 Grendel and build a petite little deer rifle on a Mini-Mauser, CZ-527 or Howa Mini. I have a Howa Mini in 6.5 Grendel.
Good luck with your search.
First deer I took with the 25-204
He was a big one and a good test for a new cartridge the 100gr Partition worked perfect.
Howa Mini in 6.5 Grendel a handy little rifle
As far as the 1-9 twist. The ability to stabilize bullets has to do with their length not weight. When all you could buy were cup and core soft points weight was useful, but with mono-metal, extreme aerodynamic shapes and plastic tips length comes more into play.
I shoot a 1-9 22-204 and it just dotes on 40gr NBT's and that bullet at around 4000 fps has been my goto pelt hunting bullet for a long time. It is so accurate and performs so well that I haven't even bothered to experiment with anything else other than some Lead-Frees.
Instead of looking for the heaviest bullet for the 223 I'd be looking at a bullet that was designed for hunting larger game, Nosler Partition, Win. 64gr Power Point or one of the Barnes Monos, I'm sure there are a couple others. Bullet design is quite important, I'm old enough to remember when the 243 hit the shelves and the hoopla about it being a just the Hammer of Thor on deer, but it's bullets were a problem, we were getting in to higher velocities than in the past, I had problems with heavies not opening at distance and gave up on the 243 as a big game round and went back to the 250-3000 and 257 Roberts both with decades of big game hunting under their belts and moving at a slightly slower pace where cup and core bullets shine.
As far as building a 25-222RM/25-204, great cartridges, I've been shooting the 25-204 successfully for 15 years BUT it needs the same length action as a 250 Sav. or 257 Roberts. I built mine because I had a .378 boltface action laying around and needed a deer rifle for that fall and it was cheaper to build than to buy a new rifle and there were no really petite actions in a deer capable cartridge at the time. Today I'd have built a 25-22 Nosler, 25 Grendel or just go with the 6.5 Grendel and build a petite little deer rifle on a Mini-Mauser, CZ-527 or Howa Mini. I have a Howa Mini in 6.5 Grendel.
Good luck with your search.
First deer I took with the 25-204
He was a big one and a good test for a new cartridge the 100gr Partition worked perfect.
Howa Mini in 6.5 Grendel a handy little rifle
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arlaunch
Active member
For target use i recommend the 69 grain Sierra TMK. That one has the same or better B.C. than the regular ole Sierra 77 grain HPBT.
I have not shot that one in my 9 twist rifles but i believe it would be an acceptable risk to take. Stiff loads of Varget, W748, AA2250 and RL15 will serve you well.
Another risk you could take is the Berger 73 grain. That one was designed just for those fellas with 9 twist barrels.
For hunting you "may" be best served with lighter, higher velocity/flatter trajectory bullets that are designed for that purpose.
I don't deer hunt with .22 caliber so i have no actual on game experience with them.
I have shot 62 grain Barnes TSX, 65 grain Sierra Game Kings and 70 grain Speers. All shoot excellent in to the target.
Nosler makes a 70 grain Accubond. Due to the nature of constructing those bullets, they have a reputation for not being as accurate as your traditional type Sierra bullets.
The Barnes 62 grain bullet box says "at least 1:9 twist" I use H4895 for those with great results in all departments.
For 22 caliber and 1-2 deer per year i would recommend going copper. If they work for your rifle you can use a box of 50 for load development and the next box will last you years.
I have not shot that one in my 9 twist rifles but i believe it would be an acceptable risk to take. Stiff loads of Varget, W748, AA2250 and RL15 will serve you well.
Another risk you could take is the Berger 73 grain. That one was designed just for those fellas with 9 twist barrels.
For hunting you "may" be best served with lighter, higher velocity/flatter trajectory bullets that are designed for that purpose.
I don't deer hunt with .22 caliber so i have no actual on game experience with them.
I have shot 62 grain Barnes TSX, 65 grain Sierra Game Kings and 70 grain Speers. All shoot excellent in to the target.
Nosler makes a 70 grain Accubond. Due to the nature of constructing those bullets, they have a reputation for not being as accurate as your traditional type Sierra bullets.
The Barnes 62 grain bullet box says "at least 1:9 twist" I use H4895 for those with great results in all departments.
For 22 caliber and 1-2 deer per year i would recommend going copper. If they work for your rifle you can use a box of 50 for load development and the next box will last you years.
Acronin
New member
Originally Posted By: gunsbam45Have been doing a little searching on this, and hearing varying answers. Some say certain 77 grain match bullets run fine 9 twist, others say won't work. I'm looking at using a factory 9 twist Kimber in .223 with 22" barrel for deer as compared to spending the money to do a 25-222 Mag or 25-204 to run 90 Sierras etc.
Look no further than the 75gr Speer Gold Dot. They are hard to find, but you can order them directly from Speer. They are a FANTASTIC bullet. They are bonded and the lead core doesn't separate from the jacket, so it maintains 95% of it's weight. Unfortunately I wasn't able to try them on deer this year, but I'm going to texas this weekend and plan on using them in my AR to see how they do. If they are good enough for hogs they'll be even better for deer and antelope IMO>
Look no further than the 75gr Speer Gold Dot. They are hard to find, but you can order them directly from Speer. They are a FANTASTIC bullet. They are bonded and the lead core doesn't separate from the jacket, so it maintains 95% of it's weight. Unfortunately I wasn't able to try them on deer this year, but I'm going to texas this weekend and plan on using them in my AR to see how they do. If they are good enough for hogs they'll be even better for deer and antelope IMO>
Acronin
New member
""I shoot a 1-9 22-204 and it just dotes on 40gr NBT's and that bullet at around 4000 fps has been my goto pelt hunting bullet for a long time. It is so accurate and performs so well that I haven't even bothered to experiment with anything else other than some Lead-Frees.""
- Question: in what ways is a .22-204 different than a .222 Magnum?
Andy
Think of the 22-204 as the 222 Rem Mag Improved. The shoulder is moved forward and changed to 30 degrees and the body slightly straighten. All three increasing the capacity yet feeding well. The capacity is slightly more than the 223 AI and you can use off the shelf dies and rechamber a 223 barrel without having to set it back as it will clean up the chamber and you don't need a crush fit. I don't even pull the barrel to rechamber. It is pretty much just load and shoot. I just run 204 Ruger brass through my FL die, trim, load and shoot. No fire forming needed.
I swiped this from another forum, thanks alf.
L to R
221, 222 Rem, 223 Rem, 223 AI, 222 Rem Mag, 22-204, 22-204/80gr VLD, 22 Dasher 22x47 Lapua.
I swiped this from another forum, thanks alf.
L to R
221, 222 Rem, 223 Rem, 223 AI, 222 Rem Mag, 22-204, 22-204/80gr VLD, 22 Dasher 22x47 Lapua.
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Zastava223rem
Member
Originally Posted By: gunsbam45....coons and badgers etc. so I don't blow them up, but thinking on trying a 40 in .223 on cats out past 50 yards & c if I can get away with it...
I can tell you from experience, a 40 gr Ballistic Tip or Soft Point out of a .223 will blow stuff up close up. You'll want light loads if thats your goal. It wont be as bad as a .22-250 but my 1:9 .223 26" running 40 gr BTs was down right explosive under 100-150 yards.
I can tell you from experience, a 40 gr Ballistic Tip or Soft Point out of a .223 will blow stuff up close up. You'll want light loads if thats your goal. It wont be as bad as a .22-250 but my 1:9 .223 26" running 40 gr BTs was down right explosive under 100-150 yards.
Originally Posted By: AcroninOriginally Posted By: gunsbam45Have been doing a little searching on this, and hearing varying answers. Some say certain 77 grain match bullets run fine 9 twist, others say won't work. I'm looking at using a factory 9 twist Kimber in .223 with 22" barrel for deer as compared to spending the money to do a 25-222 Mag or 25-204 to run 90 Sierras etc.
Look no further than the 75gr Speer Gold Dot. They are hard to find, but you can order them directly from Speer. They are a FANTASTIC bullet. They are bonded and the lead core doesn't separate from the jacket, so it maintains 95% of it's weight. Unfortunately I wasn't able to try them on deer this year, but I'm going to texas this weekend and plan on using them in my AR to see how they do. If they are good enough for hogs they'll be even better for deer and antelope IMO>
Sounds good. Let us know on pigs and feel free to post pics of the pork pile. I didn't know about this bullet, so love to see results, and any recovered bullets you get.
Thanks also to everyone else, and if more want to chime in I'm all ears.
AWS, that pic helped a bunch. I didn't realize how big a difference there was between the 204 and it's base case. Now I get your 22-204.
Look no further than the 75gr Speer Gold Dot. They are hard to find, but you can order them directly from Speer. They are a FANTASTIC bullet. They are bonded and the lead core doesn't separate from the jacket, so it maintains 95% of it's weight. Unfortunately I wasn't able to try them on deer this year, but I'm going to texas this weekend and plan on using them in my AR to see how they do. If they are good enough for hogs they'll be even better for deer and antelope IMO>
Sounds good. Let us know on pigs and feel free to post pics of the pork pile. I didn't know about this bullet, so love to see results, and any recovered bullets you get.
Thanks also to everyone else, and if more want to chime in I'm all ears.
AWS, that pic helped a bunch. I didn't realize how big a difference there was between the 204 and it's base case. Now I get your 22-204.
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Originally Posted By: Zastava223remOriginally Posted By: gunsbam45....coons and badgers etc. so I don't blow them up, but thinking on trying a 40 in .223 on cats out past 50 yards & c if I can get away with it...
I can tell you from experience, a 40 gr Ballistic Tip or Soft Point out of a .223 will blow stuff up close up. You'll want light loads if thats your goal. It wont be as bad as a .22-250 but my 1:9 .223 26" running 40 gr BTs was down right explosive under 100-150 yards.
I figured that would likely be the case. 55 grain Winchester soft points from my 22-250 I chest shot a couple cats at under 35 yards no damage, but at a different angle a little over twice that distance it was a bad deal. I was hoping maybe the lighter bullets might not exit but sounds like that's not necessarily the case.
I can tell you from experience, a 40 gr Ballistic Tip or Soft Point out of a .223 will blow stuff up close up. You'll want light loads if thats your goal. It wont be as bad as a .22-250 but my 1:9 .223 26" running 40 gr BTs was down right explosive under 100-150 yards.
I figured that would likely be the case. 55 grain Winchester soft points from my 22-250 I chest shot a couple cats at under 35 yards no damage, but at a different angle a little over twice that distance it was a bad deal. I was hoping maybe the lighter bullets might not exit but sounds like that's not necessarily the case.
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Originally Posted By: AWSFrom my experience 40gr NOSLER Ballistic tip(a much tougher bullet than the v-max) on coyotes has been about the perfect pelt hunting bullet from 10 feet to a couple hundred yards.
Now, that news is better! I also now realize you already stated this. I'm going to try the factory federal ammo and see if it shoots in the gun, and if so will give it a try on hides and see. Sounds like a simple deal to rechamber the 223 to what you're running if I feel the need.
Also, that pig of a deer gives me hope on the .257 build. If that bullet works good on deer that size I don't see what more a guy would need if he's not long ranging over canyons or wanting to break shoulders hard. My buddy Harry has been killing west TX hill country deer for years with his 25-222Mag and the 90 Sierra. Looks like the build on the .204 case really is a decent step up.
Now, that news is better! I also now realize you already stated this. I'm going to try the factory federal ammo and see if it shoots in the gun, and if so will give it a try on hides and see. Sounds like a simple deal to rechamber the 223 to what you're running if I feel the need.
Also, that pig of a deer gives me hope on the .257 build. If that bullet works good on deer that size I don't see what more a guy would need if he's not long ranging over canyons or wanting to break shoulders hard. My buddy Harry has been killing west TX hill country deer for years with his 25-222Mag and the 90 Sierra. Looks like the build on the .204 case really is a decent step up.
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