Insight on a versatile caliber

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Guys this is been my first year putting any real effort into predator calling. Although coyotes are my main interest, I have been calling in a pile of fox so far. I’m sure my coyote tactics need a little bit of work, But I am really enjoying myself

I’d like to buy a dedicated predator rifle. I don’t think I will ever shoot 200 yards in my life, more than likely 100-150 would be max. I want something that won’t destroy a fox, but will still put a coyote on the ground.

I do hunt a few special regulation areas that are rimfire and shotgun only, so I was considering a 17 WSM. Some guys look down on that caliber for coyotes, but I was still considering it since the distances I’ll be hunting are manageable for precise shots. I also had a gentleman offer me a Savage 25 LW Varminter in 17Hornet...

Of course I am considering other calibers as well like the 223, 204, 222... In short, I need advice here. Let me know what you guys think, and if you have anything on the market, feel free to shoot me a message so we can talk
 
Personally, I have really started to enjoy the 17 WSM for smaller furbearers. It’s a little light for coyotes, but within the confines of 100-150 yard shooting, you could do worse.
 
I'm not a fan of any of the 17 calibers. The HMRs are to "iffy" for reliable kills, the 17 WSM is limited to Savage BMags which are hit or miss in accuracy or the Ruger 77 which is expensive. IF I had to choose a 17 cal it would be the 17 Hornet in a CZ 527.

For the range you'll be shooting I'd choose a 22 cal in Hornet or 223. I like the triple deuce but there is almost no companies chambering it anymore.
 
I'm in Allegheny county in PA and we also have the rimfire restriction. The 17 WSM is the easy choice for a rimfire, it's the most power you can get. I still run a 22 mag because it's what I have and I like the gun, but if I was looking to buy a rimfire it would be a 17 WSM. My hunting partner bought a Ruger 77 last year it and it's prety nice. The B-Mags are cheap, but they will do what you need them to.

My hunting is like yours, I'm more likely to shoot 20 yards than 200, and never over 200 so a lot of the over analyzing ballistics is a waste of time.

As a general rule, the bigger the caliber, and the heavier the bullet, the more damage you will see. PA coyotes are not as big as everyone makes them out to be. The average female is 30 pounds or a little less. The males are another 5 to 10 pounds heavier. It doesn't take a 30-06 to kill a 30-40 pound dog.

I like the 20 calibers for our situation. I've had good luck with a 204 Ruger not blowing animals up. I've shot it using 35 grain Bergers on both fox and groundhogs without any pass throughs on fox, and very few on groundhogs. It's just a 20 cal hole going in and that's it. I've never shot any other bullet in it on game. I reload so I designed my loads around that bullet.

I have a buddy who runs foxhounds and hunts coyotes a lot with them. He started with a 223 and switched to a 204 to reduce pelt damage. He hasn't seen any difference in the killing ability between the two, just less damage from the 204. He typically shoots 35 Bergers also. His experience so far has been one small hole going in and no exit.

You didn't say what gun and caliber you are currently using. I use my rimfire in the restricted area's, and a centerfire outside of Allegheny county. In your case, take a longer term view of things and buy the B-mag in 17 WSM. Look on Gunbroker, maybe find a used one even cheaper. Then when you can, add a centerfire for outside the restricted areas later down the road.

You don't need real high magnification scope since you are not shooting long distances, a nice 3x9 scope is plenty, and something 1.5x6, 2x7, or 2.5x8 would also do a great job. Something compact and light. The weight adds up once you start putting a light on the gun.
 
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Seems like we have similar ways of thinking. I should add that I live in the mountains, not in special regs.... but I do hunt in special regs some. That’s part of my dilemma, I’m not sure if I should base my primary gun on special regs limitations because here at home I can use anything I want.

But, we call in a lot of fox here in the mountains, reds and greys, so I don’t want to blow them up when I have an opportunity at them
 
For a all around one gun use, something in 204 or 223 will suit your needs. I'm a big fan of the 17 Hornet, mine are a lot of fun, I'm just not sure I'd want one as my one and only "go to" coyote gun. I have a HB SS Bmag 17 WSM that I've gotten used to and become very fond of, but unless I was in a restricted rimfire only area, that would be the only time I'd grab it for yote size critters and even then, I'd want to keep my shots within reasonable distances.

For y'all that live/hunt in rimfire only areas, but hunt in CF areas as well, there's probably no way around owning two rifles and in that case I'd have a 17 WSM and for distances out to 200yds, either a 204 or 223.

If you hunt more fox than coyotes and most of your shots are less than 200yds I suppose the little 17 Hornet would be fine for a one gun do all, but that wouldn't work for your restricted firearm area/s. I suppose you could use a shotgun, if you already have one, for those areas but your range will be more limited.
 
The question is do you anticipate more coyotes at some point. If you want to stay with the 17's, the 17 Fireball and the 17 Remington are a bit more horsepower and still work well on fox.

Do you handload or are you stuck with factory ammo? Take that in to consideration also. I've never looked at what bullets are available in any of the factory 17 ammo, but I would want something other than Vmax's. The good Bergers and the Hornady HP's are no longer made. Chan Nagel only has 30 grainers available now.

We also aren't hunting in a coyote hunting video out west. Take in to consideration what a 20 gr Vmax will do on a less than perfect angle on a coyote. Less than perfect angles happen at night in cover. Hunting heavier cover at night doesn't afford a lot of time to set up a shot sometimes.

The Hornet will kill both species fine, but the margin of error is smaller with it. I don't know what is offered in factory ammo for any of the calibers mentioned, I've never looked. Since I handload, I pick the bullet I want to shoot for a particular caliber and work a load for it.
 
I use a 223 with 65gr SGK, more animals are dropping in their tracks than any other bullet I've shot and the only time those bullets have wrecked fur on any animal is when I made a bad shot on a moving fox and hit it in the leg, but I've shot a few fox with that ammo and you usually have to dig through the fur to find entrance or exit holes.

It's fantastic to have a tough bullet that you dont have to slow down to save fur. My old light varmint bullet loads would destroy a lot of fox even when loading them weak, and if loaded weak enough to be good on fox then they will be unusable on coyote. This 65 SGK load saves fur, smashes through bone and would have no problem killing a whitetail.

Trying to balance caliber, varmint bullet and powder to be strong enough to kill reliably(only if you dont hit bone) but not strong enough to do damage is crazy stupid but very common.
 
Originally Posted By: CGRThe question is do you anticipate more coyotes at some point.

Do you handload or are you stuck with factory ammo?

there’s a very healthy coyote population here, I just haven’t had success yet. I’m very new to it. Called in a bunch of fox though... factory loads only
 
I just looked up what factory ammo is available for a 17 Hornet on Midway, Midsouth, and Natchez. There isn't anything available that isn't a Vmax. I also looked up the Fireball and the 17 Remington, not much different for them either. I looked at the 204 and Nosler BT's and Bergers can be found in factory ammo. 223 is probably a lot better than both.

If you don't handload, factory ammo is something that you need to consider.
 
Originally Posted By: Rock KnockerI use a 223 with 65gr SGK, more animals are dropping in their tracks than any other bullet I've shot and the only time those bullets have wrecked fur on any animal is when I made a bad shot on a moving fox and hit it in the leg, but I've shot a few fox with that ammo and you usually have to dig through the fur to find entrance or exit holes.

It's fantastic to have a tough bullet that you dont have to slow down to save fur. My old light varmint bullet loads would destroy a lot of fox even when loading them weak, and if loaded weak enough to be good on fox then they will be unusable on coyote. This 65 SGK load saves fur, smashes through bone and would have no problem killing a whitetail.

Trying to balance caliber, varmint bullet and powder to be strong enough to kill reliably(only if you dont hit bone) but not strong enough to do damage is crazy stupid but very common.

I agree. I use the 55 gr SGK in both my 223 and 22-250.
 
I have a 17 WSM, 17 Fireball, 223, 12 guage shotgun, etc.

For coyotes, fox, bobcat under 150 yards I think the 17 WSM is a fine choice, especially if you have areas with rimfire restrictions. 25 grain bullets for coyotes, 20 for fox/bobcat. Even a bad 17 WSM should be able to do 1" at 100 yards - plenty good enough for those critters (and woodchucks). No need to worry about reloading. 2-7x scope is plenty and makes for a nice light carrying rifle.

Spend leftover money on a nicer call, or tripod/support, or warm boots! Good luck.
 
With smaller calibers and lighter bullets there really should be more talk about bullet placement and shot opportunities.

I have no experience with the rimfires but I know with a few light bullets in the 50gr range from 223 that will not lethally penetrate a coyote at certain angles.

New hunter, adrenaline flying, coyote moving, real life shooting scenarios etc. A .17 rimfire has got to have a high failure rate. I think I would have a hard freaking time and I'm just getting used to hunting and shooting them 10 years later.
 
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