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#3229307 - 01/20/20 10:26 PM Is the 204 becoming obsolete?
shelton573 Offline
Die Hard Member II

Registered: 02/15/12
Posts: 1272
Loc: SE Missouri
It seems like a lot of folks talk about shooting them but rifles seem to be getting scarce. I have a savage 12 that I love shooting. My buddy wanted to buy a Howa for our SD trip and they discontinued the 204 unless Iím wrong. Looking on buds guns they only have 2 options and they are both pistols. Is it phasing out? There are still rifles out there for sale but it seems like availability has been cut in half.
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#3229313 - 01/20/20 11:25 PM Re: Is the 204 becoming obsolete? [Re: shelton573]
204 AR Offline
Die Hard Member with a vengeance

Registered: 01/31/10
Posts: 4749
Loc: Nebraska
It does seem like the popularity has died off a little. There's a lot of new stuff out there to capture people's interest.
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#3229314 - 01/20/20 11:32 PM Re: Is the 204 becoming obsolete? [Re: 204 AR]
B23 Offline
Die Hard Member III

Registered: 12/07/11
Posts: 2124
Loc: Pacific NW
Do you think it's so much that the other or new cartridges are competing for their piece of market share or do the masses just want cheap, and the 223 does that better than the others with it's cheaper bulk ammo that's available for it???

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#3229323 - 01/21/20 02:04 AM Re: Is the 204 becoming obsolete? [Re: 204 AR]
tripod3 Offline
PM senior

Registered: 09/27/04
Posts: 8228
Loc: WA
Originally Posted By: 204 AR
It does seem like the popularity has died off a little. There's a lot of new stuff out there to capture people's interest.


You can only slice the pie so many times.
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Can't Have Good Without Bad

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#3229324 - 01/21/20 04:06 AM Re: Is the 204 becoming obsolete? [Re: shelton573]
MPFD Offline
PM senior

Registered: 01/31/07
Posts: 5141
Loc: Kansas
Is anybody buying anything other than 6.5 Creedmoor?
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#3229329 - 01/21/20 06:12 AM Re: Is the 204 becoming obsolete? [Re: shelton573]
Terry Lightle Online
Predator Master

Registered: 01/13/19
Posts: 91
Loc: Sand Springs,Okla
Do not have any insight on the 204 but I think the 6.5 Creed has taken over in my neck of the woods.Think everybody around here but me has 1

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#3229337 - 01/21/20 07:51 AM Re: Is the 204 becoming obsolete? [Re: shelton573]
K22 Offline
Die Hard Member III

Registered: 10/19/03
Posts: 2224
Loc: Western NC
I certainly hope not, it's a great Predator and Varmint caliber. I don't like to admit it but I use mine more than my 17 Rem. lately.
The 204 was one of the easiest calibers to work an accurate load up for I have used.

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#3229343 - 01/21/20 08:21 AM Re: Is the 204 becoming obsolete? [Re: shelton573]
ackleyman Offline
PM senior

Registered: 01/08/03
Posts: 8511
Loc: Hickville
12 twists do not help the popularity, but I doubt if they will die off. Good sign to horde up some brass if you like the caliber.

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#3229357 - 01/21/20 09:33 AM Re: Is the 204 becoming obsolete? [Re: K22]
Rustydust Offline
PM senior

Registered: 10/21/07
Posts: 6018
Loc: Southwest Idaho
Originally Posted By: K22
I certainly hope not, it's a great Predator and Varmint caliber. I don't like to admit it but I use mine more than my 17 Rem. lately.


Me too. It's been many years now since I took my .204 to the prairie dog fields for the first time. That was eye opening. My .220 Swift and my .22/250 hardly had their barrels get warm that trip. That .20 caliber did all that the bigger .224 rounds did and did it with almost zero kick (love to watch the hits!) and less blast. When the factory (Savage) barrel was toast I screwed on a new Criterion barrel with a 1/11" twist and had it threaded for my suppressor. Man! Hardly another gun came out of my safe for a long time after that.

Since I bought my .17 Hornet a few years back that has become my darling for our local ground squirrels but for an "outchonder" gun the .204 Ruger is tough to beat. At least out to 500 yards or so.
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He said, "Well, I don't know and I don't care.'"


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#3229366 - 01/21/20 10:32 AM Re: Is the 204 becoming obsolete? [Re: shelton573]
WyoBull Offline
Seasoned Member

Registered: 08/25/11
Posts: 307
Loc: Wyoming
Seems everyone is always chasing the newest, latest and greatest caliber. I have never owned a 204 Ruger as I guess I am old school in staying with my 220 Swift, 222 Rem., and 17 Rem..

I remember it was not that long ago when the 204 was all the rage and all anybody in the varmint world was talking about. CZ 527 Varmint is still chambered in the 204 and probably a couple of other models of CZ as well. That is what I would look at if I were to get one today.
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#3229368 - 01/21/20 10:44 AM Re: Is the 204 becoming obsolete? [Re: shelton573]
pyscodog Offline
PM Junkie

Registered: 12/04/06
Posts: 13641
Loc: okla
Its still a great round but around here you can't hardly give them away. Seems the Creed craze is all anyone cares about.
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#3229385 - 01/21/20 11:48 AM Re: Is the 204 becoming obsolete? [Re: shelton573]
jsh Offline
Seasoned Member

Registered: 11/22/03
Posts: 207
Loc: Kansas U.S. of A
It took me a while to play with the 204. I wonít say it will replace anything I already had, but I have found it to be easy to work with. I did throw mine into a Choate stock, then filled that up with #9 shot, rig weighs around 28 lbs, ;-) you can see your hits.

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#3229406 - 01/21/20 01:47 PM Re: Is the 204 becoming obsolete? [Re: shelton573]
WeaselCircus Offline
Seasoned Member

Registered: 01/27/11
Posts: 262
Loc: Idaho
I've been wondering the same thing about the 204 and then lately the 17 Hornet too. Love my Hornets (and my 204), but I'm seeing things like Hornady discontinuing the 25 gr HP bullet option and way less sellers of Hornet ammo. Sure hope both are here to stay for the long term.

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#3229437 - 01/21/20 06:07 PM Re: Is the 204 becoming obsolete? [Re: shelton573]
Squeeze Offline
Die Hard Member III

Registered: 12/30/04
Posts: 2454
Loc: NW, Wi
I can't speak to cartridge trends, but my 204 Ruger isn't going anywhere. I had a Savage 16, in 204 Ruger, and one year, not going to WY to shoot speed goats and p-dogs, I converted the Savage 16, into a 260 Remington. Very happy with that rifle, so not likely it will ever go back to a 204 Ruger. But I missed the speedy 20 cal, so I built an AR-15 with a 1:10 twist 22" barrel. I really like the fast follow-ups the AR-15 gives, and I can't say I gave up much in accuracy. I will always have a 204 Ruger, of some kind. I have a pile of brass, as a result of the last shortage, and then a healthy supply. So I guess I need to put in a big hoard of 39 gr. Sierras. rolleyes

Squeeze
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#3229456 - 01/21/20 09:15 PM Re: Is the 204 becoming obsolete? [Re: shelton573]
lowholer1 Offline
Die Hard Member

Registered: 11/21/07
Posts: 925
Loc: washington
I like to take 1 of my several 204 rugers with me to the range when I am doing load work up on a deferent caliber rifle as all my 204 shoot well and it helps me take myself out of the equation. I find the 204 is the easiest caliber that I have ever loaded for.My 1 in 12 twist shoots 32gr sierra and my 1 in 10 shoots 40gr under 1 in consistently.
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#3229495 - 01/22/20 07:33 AM Re: Is the 204 becoming obsolete? [Re: lowholer1]
FLATHEAD67 Offline
New Member

Registered: 01/04/20
Posts: 19
Loc: Henry Co. Mo.
I finally broke down and traded into an A bolt stalker 204. Figured it had been around long enough now that i would give it a try after all the good I've read about it. Shoots better than I do. It will never replace my trusty ol 222 though.

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#3229496 - 01/22/20 07:33 AM Re: Is the 204 becoming obsolete? [Re: shelton573]
FLATHEAD67 Offline
New Member

Registered: 01/04/20
Posts: 19
Loc: Henry Co. Mo.
I finally broke down and traded into an A bolt stalker 204. Figured it had been around long enough now that i would give it a try after all the good I've read about it. Shoots better than I do. It will never replace my trusty ol 222 though.

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#3229497 - 01/22/20 07:34 AM Re: Is the 204 becoming obsolete? [Re: FLATHEAD67]
FLATHEAD67 Offline
New Member

Registered: 01/04/20
Posts: 19
Loc: Henry Co. Mo.
Sorry about the double tap !

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#3229503 - 01/22/20 08:48 AM Re: Is the 204 becoming obsolete? [Re: FLATHEAD67]
spotstalkshoot Offline
Die Hard Member II

Registered: 12/22/13
Posts: 1620
Loc: so.mn
Cabelas has the M12 for 369 again. Tough to find a better shooting 204r at that price.

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#3229709 - 01/23/20 12:23 PM Re: Is the 204 becoming obsolete? [Re: tripod3]
VASHTI Offline
Die Hard Member

Registered: 02/08/05
Posts: 514
Loc: Central, Wisconsin
Or you can always bake another one.
Originally Posted By: tripod3
Originally Posted By: 204 AR
It does seem like the popularity has died off a little. There's a lot of new stuff out there to capture people's interest.


You can only slice the pie so many times.

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#3229715 - 01/23/20 12:52 PM Re: Is the 204 becoming obsolete? [Re: shelton573]
bmoore Offline
Seasoned Member

Registered: 12/17/16
Posts: 282
Loc: So Cal
I had no idea people bought anything besides 6.5 Kardashian. 22-250, 223, 243 and 25-06 all work for me. The 204 is a cool little cartridge though.

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#3229720 - 01/23/20 01:49 PM Re: Is the 204 becoming obsolete? [Re: bmoore]
DannoBoone Offline
Die Hard Member

Registered: 03/08/10
Posts: 850
Loc: Walker, IA
Well, I hope it doesn't go the way of Remington's 5mm rim fire.
However, there are similar mistakes. Hornady and Ruger seemed to
think that they just HAD to come up with their own case. I make
the argument that they should have used the .223 Rem case as
the parent case. Are there reloaders who would have been much
more accepting of a round such as Practical 20 or .204AI using
the .223 case? Hornady could just as easily made brass for
those rounds as well as Ruger making production rifles for
either.

The ballistics of .204 bullets with the .223 as parent cases
are amazing, and AI'd, can out do the .204R. Even my Tac20 can
match my .204R Predator. I'm much more enthused with the
former.
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#3229724 - 01/23/20 02:00 PM Re: Is the 204 becoming obsolete? [Re: shelton573]
pyscodog Offline
PM Junkie

Registered: 12/04/06
Posts: 13641
Loc: okla
Everyone likes something new. Look at all the new cartridges out today. So many are similar to something old but just a little bit different. New sells and thats what keeps the doors open. If that weren't the case we'd all still be driving 55 Chevy's. But that wouldn't bother me to much. LOL
_________________________
Everyone's a genius. But if you judge a fish by his ability to climb a tree, it will live its whole life thinking its stupid.

Stay away from negative people, they have a problem for every solution.

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#3229727 - 01/23/20 02:31 PM Re: Is the 204 becoming obsolete? [Re: shelton573]
ackleyman Offline
PM senior

Registered: 01/08/03
Posts: 8511
Loc: Hickville
22-204 or 6-204 may revive the interest.

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#3229728 - 01/23/20 02:32 PM Re: Is the 204 becoming obsolete? [Re: shelton573]
shelton573 Offline
Die Hard Member II

Registered: 02/15/12
Posts: 1272
Loc: SE Missouri
I have about 600 pieces of brass for it but I will likely shop for some more in the future just to help build up in case it does go away. Last time we shot prairie dogs it was hands down my favorite gun to shoot. I hope it sticks around for sure!
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Shelton

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#3229729 - 01/23/20 02:34 PM Re: Is the 204 becoming obsolete? [Re: spotstalkshoot]
shelton573 Offline
Die Hard Member II

Registered: 02/15/12
Posts: 1272
Loc: SE Missouri
Originally Posted By: spotstalkshoot
Cabelas has the M12 for 369 again. Tough to find a better shooting 204r at that price.


I looked on cabelas and they do not list it but not sure if it is just going off my closest location. Can you send me a link if you have one? That is originally what he wanted to buy after shooting mine but they discontinued it for a while. If he can get one of those I know he will go that route. Thanks!
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Shelton

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#3229737 - 01/23/20 03:55 PM Re: Is the 204 becoming obsolete? [Re: shelton573]
AWS Offline
Moderator

Registered: 02/01/03
Posts: 5052
Loc: NM
The market gets saturated, everyone who could use one has one. Now it is just new shooters that are potential buyers. It is kind of a knitch cartridge only appealing to varmint and predator hunters and it is not a common caliber, the selection of 20 cal bullets is much smaller than lets say 224. It lacks the accuracy/support for precision games or the darling of everyone right now Long Range shooting. Under 300 yards preds and varmints are in mortal danger. Also pelt hunting seams to be on the decline and one of the advantages of the .204 was it's ability to take preds with little pelt damage.

The 204 case is really a pretty nice design and it wasn't Hornady's invention, they improved the 222 Rem Mag case and will do everything and then some compared to the 223 AI and is much easier to get to feed smoothly. At the time it came out AR's weren't a big deal and most short actions didn't have a 2.26 length restriction.

I started wildcatting the 204 case the year after became available and am shooting a 22-204(223 AI on steroids and feeds from everything), 6mm-206(Improved 6x47mm Rem Benchrest round that doesn't need custom dies) and the 25-204( a clone of the 257 Kimber again no custom dies needed) that matches the original factory ballistics of the 250-3000 Sav. and 257 Roberts. All of these are run it through a FL die, load and shoot, no fireforming needed.

Now we have a proliferation of AR's with their restrictive mag lengths and cartridges like the 20 Practical and other cartridges that are based on cases that operate comfortably in the AR platform are becoming popular.



Edited by AWS (01/23/20 03:57 PM)
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After the first shot the rest are just noise.

Make mine a Minaska.

Heaven has rules and walls, He-l has open borders

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#3229738 - 01/23/20 04:00 PM Re: Is the 204 becoming obsolete? [Re: shelton573]
Winny Fan Offline
Die Hard Member III

Registered: 08/12/11
Posts: 2085
Loc: Central Texas
When the 204 Ruger first came out, the big thing that Ruger and Hornady supposedly wanted was to produce the fastest commercial cartridge which meant convincingly besting the 17 Remington velocity.

The 223 based 20 caliber off-springs that they initially tried did not safely give the necessary velocity, so the 204 Ruger was created from the longer .222 Remington Magnum case which allowed a bit more case volume over the 223 Remington. In addition, Hornady had produced a 33 grain 20 caliber bullet for quite a few years to meet the needs of Tactical 20 shooters and others who shot a few other 20 caliber wildcat cartridges long before the 204 Ruger was "invented". In order to get the needed velocity in a safe manner for the 204 Ruger, the bullet weight was reduced from 33 to 32 grains. (I still have a small stache of the 33 grain Hornady bullets that I had stockpiled for my Tactical 20 that I had built in @2000.)

Those two things, coupled with a standard chamber with a bit of extra free bore ala Roy Weatherby, made the 32 grain Hornady 204 Ruger loading the commercial velocity king.

Now that the world had suddenly "discovered" a new bore diameter with the introduction of the 204 Ruger, it wasn't long before some 223 based 20 caliber wildcats were created, one of which the internet told us was the "brand spanking new" 20 Practical - a simple neck down of the 223 Rem case. In fact, 20 caliber shooters had been loading and shooting the cartridge since the early 1980's. The just called it the 5mm-223. In addition 20 caliber wildcatter had shot a cartridge for years based on the 222 Rem Mag, which for other than a couple of very minor dimensional difference, looked amazing like the "new and totally innovative" 204 Ruger cartridge.
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Some people think that they are quoting Einstein when in fact they are saying something that would make even Einstein say, "HUH?".

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#3229740 - 01/23/20 04:13 PM Re: Is the 204 becoming obsolete? [Re: Winny Fan]
spotstalkshoot Offline
Die Hard Member II

Registered: 12/22/13
Posts: 1620
Loc: so.mn
Shelton573, ad for J23-feb12 says 223,22-250,6.5,308. But a friend was in store asked about 204 they said same price, but sale had not started. So not sure now.

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#3229746 - 01/23/20 04:47 PM Re: Is the 204 becoming obsolete? [Re: Winny Fan]
K22 Offline
Die Hard Member III

Registered: 10/19/03
Posts: 2224
Loc: Western NC
Originally Posted By: Winny Fan
When the 204 Ruger first came out, the big thing that Ruger and Hornady supposedly wanted was to produce the fastest commercial cartridge which meant convincingly besting the 17 Remington velocity.

The 223 based 20 caliber off-springs that they initially tried did not safely give the necessary velocity, so the 204 Ruger was created from the longer .222 Remington Magnum case which allowed a bit more case volume over the 223 Remington. In addition, Hornady had produced a 33 grain 20 caliber bullet for quite a few years to meet the needs of Tactical 20 shooters and others who shot a few other 20 caliber wildcat cartridges long before the 204 Ruger was "invented". In order to get the needed velocity in a safe manner for the 204 Ruger, the bullet weight was reduced from 33 to 32 grains. (I still have a small stache of the 33 grain Hornady bullets that I had stockpiled for my Tactical 20 that I had built in @2000.)

Those two things, coupled with a standard chamber with a bit of extra free bore ala Roy Weatherby, made the 32 grain Hornady 204 Ruger loading the commercial velocity king.

Now that the world had suddenly "discovered" a new bore diameter with the introduction of the 204 Ruger, it wasn't long before some 223 based 20 caliber wildcats were created, one of which the internet told us was the "brand spanking new" 20 Practical - a simple neck down of the 223 Rem case. In fact, 20 caliber shooters had been loading and shooting the cartridge since the early 1980's. The just called it the 5mm-223. In addition 20 caliber wildcatter had shot a cartridge for years based on the 222 Rem Mag, which for other than a couple of very minor dimensional difference, looked amazing like the "new and totally innovative" 204 Ruger cartridge.


And that is how I remember it.
While searching for an ultra light Predator rifle in a 17 Rem. I found the Kimber Montana in 204 which of course met all of my needs. Winny is right in saying it doesn't take to long researching loading manuals and observing chronograph display readings to notice that other 20 cal. or 24 cal. has to be pushed a lot to match the 204 velocities. The same holds true for the 17 Rem. vs the 17-223. Not a thing wrong with the other 20 and 17 calibers, but it's hard to overcome case volume. Similar to the old saying of cubic inch eventually takes over.
So to end my rambling, I am a big fan of the 204 and hope it stays.


Edited by K22 (01/23/20 04:47 PM)

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#3229756 - 01/23/20 05:57 PM Re: Is the 204 becoming obsolete? [Re: shelton573]
pyscodog Offline
PM Junkie

Registered: 12/04/06
Posts: 13641
Loc: okla
This is turning into an interesting post.
_________________________
Everyone's a genius. But if you judge a fish by his ability to climb a tree, it will live its whole life thinking its stupid.

Stay away from negative people, they have a problem for every solution.

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#3229773 - 01/23/20 07:51 PM Re: Is the 204 becoming obsolete? [Re: shelton573]
jsh Offline
Seasoned Member

Registered: 11/22/03
Posts: 207
Loc: Kansas U.S. of A
I think AWS hit the nail on the head about the support.
17HMR and 17WSM, offer it and they will come. What soured me on the HMR was there was a pile of guns and no ammo when the first came out. Neither 17 has what one would call outstanding ammo available.

The 204 with the questionable factory twist on some didnít help. Then guys wanted a bit more performance at longer range and went to heavier bullets with good results. Only for that supplier to drop them the last year or so.

Dunno, maybe thatís just marketing.

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#3229782 - 01/23/20 08:54 PM Re: Is the 204 becoming obsolete? [Re: jsh]
Winny Fan Offline
Die Hard Member III

Registered: 08/12/11
Posts: 2085
Loc: Central Texas
Originally Posted By: jsh
I think AWS hit the nail on the head about the support.
17HMR and 17WSM, offer it and they will come. What soured me on the HMR was there was a pile of guns and no ammo when the first came out. Neither 17 has what one would call outstanding ammo available.

The 204 with the questionable factory twist on some didnít help. Then guys wanted a bit more performance at longer range and went to heavier bullets with good results. Only for that supplier to drop them the last year or so.

Dunno, maybe thatís just marketing.


Its demand far more than marketing. Both the 17 caliber and the 20 caliber bore diameters are not what most people want, so as someone stated earlier, the market is a niche market with a definitely limited number of potential buyers.

It would be nice if we had unlimited choices available to us, but neither the manufacturers nor their vendors like a huge inventory of items sitting around that don't readily sell because the consumer market is limited and small. If it doesn't sell, it doesn't get produced. Basic economics.
_________________________
I guess I stayed at the party longer than someone's self-imposed curfew for me allowed....?

Some people think that they are quoting Einstein when in fact they are saying something that would make even Einstein say, "HUH?".

Ain't that right, Bill?

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#3229799 - 01/23/20 10:02 PM Re: Is the 204 becoming obsolete? [Re: shelton573]
DAA Offline
PM senior

Registered: 04/23/01
Posts: 5224
Loc: Salt Lake City
I hope it's not going obsolete. The case is the be all you can be case for the .378 bolt face and a dandy for wildcatting.

I've never had one though. So, probably about right, if it becomes obsolete, then I'll have to have one.

When Hornady started making the 33 gr. I put together my first .20 caliber, a .20BR, and have always had at least a couple .20's in the stable since. Have three different ones now, .20BR, .20-250 and .20 Dasher. Wouldn't mind getting a little slowpoke .204 Ruger one of these days either though, for squirrels and such laugh.

- DAA

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#3229844 - 01/24/20 07:28 AM Re: Is the 204 becoming obsolete? [Re: DAA]
K22 Offline
Die Hard Member III

Registered: 10/19/03
Posts: 2224
Loc: Western NC
Originally Posted By: DAA
I hope it's not going obsolete. The case is the be all you can be case for the .378 bolt face and a dandy for wildcatting.

I've never had one though. So, probably about right, if it becomes obsolete, then I'll have to have one.

When Hornady started making the 33 gr. I put together my first .20 caliber, a .20BR, and have always had at least a couple .20's in the stable since. Have three different ones now, .20BR, .20-250 and .20 Dasher. Wouldn't mind getting a little slowpoke .204 Ruger one of these days either though, for squirrels and such laugh.

- DAA



Point taken. wink grin

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#3229845 - 01/24/20 07:29 AM Re: Is the 204 becoming obsolete? [Re: shelton573]
AWS Offline
Moderator

Registered: 02/01/03
Posts: 5052
Loc: NM
DAA, I have three wildcats on the 204 case and have never owned a 204. I do have a 20 Practical AR and have a 20 P bolt gun in the works, just waiting for the barrel to get here.
_________________________
After the first shot the rest are just noise.

Make mine a Minaska.

Heaven has rules and walls, He-l has open borders

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#3229852 - 01/24/20 08:46 AM Re: Is the 204 becoming obsolete? [Re: shelton573]
AWS Offline
Moderator

Registered: 02/01/03
Posts: 5052
Loc: NM
There is another case that is even longer than the 204 Ruger/222 Rem Mag which is 47mm long and uses the .378 case head. Heym developed the 5.6x50 Mag which is 3mm longer. RWS brass is a available from Huntingtons. It comes in both rimless and rimmed for break open firearms. They developed it to bring the 222 Rem up to power levels required by Germany to hunt certain animals. I shoot the rimmed version in a combo gun and it makes a very nice coyote hunting cartridge that takes commonly available .224 bullets.



Edited by AWS (01/24/20 08:52 AM)
_________________________
After the first shot the rest are just noise.

Make mine a Minaska.

Heaven has rules and walls, He-l has open borders

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#3229863 - 01/24/20 11:00 AM Re: Is the 204 becoming obsolete? [Re: DAA]
Winny Fan Offline
Die Hard Member III

Registered: 08/12/11
Posts: 2085
Loc: Central Texas
Originally Posted By: DAA
I hope it's not going obsolete. The case is the be all you can be case for the .378 bolt face and a dandy for wildcatting.

I've never had one though. So, probably about right, if it becomes obsolete, then I'll have to have one.

When Hornady started making the 33 gr. I put together my first .20 caliber, a .20BR, and have always had at least a couple .20's in the stable since. Have three different ones now, .20BR, .20-250 and .20 Dasher. Wouldn't mind getting a little slowpoke .204 Ruger one of these days either though, for squirrels and such laugh.

- DAA


Good post, DAA.............. That pretty well "splains" where the 204 Ruger fits into the 20 caliber wildcat world. laugh

Some people like something "just a bit better" while others like to make one trip to Walmart for everything. It all keeps the world spinning.
_________________________
I guess I stayed at the party longer than someone's self-imposed curfew for me allowed....?

Some people think that they are quoting Einstein when in fact they are saying something that would make even Einstein say, "HUH?".

Ain't that right, Bill?

Top
#3229900 - 01/24/20 02:44 PM Re: Is the 204 becoming obsolete? [Re: shelton573]
1badshee Offline
Die Hard Member III

Registered: 01/08/07
Posts: 3107
Loc: Arkansas
I tracked down the howa in 204 that I wanted after hunting for awhile in the used rack at the local cabelas.
Got luck the rifle really likes the first fiocchi 32gr load I picked up and now I buy it as I see it or can to stock up and start a brass supply from that.

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#3229902 - 01/24/20 02:46 PM Re: Is the 204 becoming obsolete? [Re: shelton573]
Utahcaller Offline
Die Hard Member

Registered: 04/06/05
Posts: 565
Loc: UT
To me it really doesnít matter much if it becomes obsolete. I have plenty of brass, bullets, and dies to shoot it the rest of my lifetime. I have been shooting the slowpoke (204 Ruger) since it first came out 15 years ago and love it for called Coyotes. Probably killed closed to 400 Coyotes with it. Have had 3 different guns chambered in this Cartridge. With my latest one being my favorite a CZ 527..... Have had great luck with 35 grain Bergers, 32 grain Nosler Ballistic tips, and the 45 grain Hornady softpoints. My latest bullet Iím testing is the 33 grain Calhoon double hollowpoints to soon to make a judgment on them..... But I can say that 0-300 yards as a fur gun at a Velocity of around 3900 fps the 204 Ruger is tough to beat. And thatís coming from somebody that loves the 17 Tactical too.....


Edited by Utahcaller (01/24/20 04:04 PM)

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#3229913 - 01/24/20 03:57 PM Re: Is the 204 becoming obsolete? [Re: shelton573]
crazyyote Offline
Seasoned Member

Registered: 03/15/11
Posts: 429
Loc: ohio
Geez I hope not because I'm in the process of building one!! I'll keep it going. Ha

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#3229921 - 01/24/20 04:54 PM Re: Is the 204 becoming obsolete? [Re: shelton573]
emptymag Offline
Seasoned Member

Registered: 12/12/14
Posts: 324
Loc: Minnesota
I had a CZ 527 right when they came out. Great gun and cartridge. Shot the 33gr moly coated HSM Calhoun double hollow point factory load into 1 ragged hole. I traded that gun off some time ago. My dad has a few 204's yet. One being a really slick Dtech.

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#3229926 - 01/24/20 05:23 PM Re: Is the 204 becoming obsolete? [Re: shelton573]
pyscodog Offline
PM Junkie

Registered: 12/04/06
Posts: 13641
Loc: okla
I doubt the 204 will ever go away. Right now its just not the new kid on the block and its just kinda on the back shelf. I think it will always be around though. It still has a following, just not as big as it use to be.
_________________________
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#3230003 - 01/25/20 12:29 AM Re: Is the 204 becoming obsolete? [Re: shelton573]
UncleZeb Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 01/08/18
Posts: 38
Loc: Idaho
I worked firearms retail before getting jumping into the welding trade (gotta pay for my gun addiction). My experience working in a mom and pop gun shop where you kept a call list of customers wants and needs we sold most of our 204s in the going into or coming out of winter for rock chucks and coyotes and not many at that 10 a year was high. Sold maybe 20-30 22-250s a year this is new not counting used firearms. Seemed that ar15s and heavy barreled bolt guns in 223 were the trend fueled by politics. 243s were the big game hunters varmint gun of choice. Ranch hands and retirees wanted the 204 and 22-250 the former used the 22-250 as a deer rifle/truckgun/ predator control. I donít ever seem to recall selling a 204 too someone that needed a rifle, the buyers were those with fun money; the same crowd that follows the trend in the market that are now gobbling up the 6.5 wonder cartridge.

In my area it never really stuck as a fur cartridge outdone in the wind by the 22-250 the 220 and 243. Not as cheap as the 223 or 17hmr. The pelt hunters and trappers always had a hard time getting consistent fur friendly factory leadings at the brick and mortar stores. I donít think the 1-12 twist really hurt it as much as bullet construction. They first run of average joes that donít reload and donít shoot all that often wanted a laser beam that blew up prairie dogs and rock chucks but didnít leave a 3-4 inch entrance on coyotes all with the same box of ammo from sally world for $12.99
Marketing can quickly be undone by reality hence the 223 Wssm, weíre just seeing the 204 after the honeymoon and 16 years of marriage.

Donít get me wrong I really like the 204 Iíve got two 1-12 factory guns and Iím piecing together a 17-204. Reloaders and people that want one of everything will keep it around. The market is all about efficient long reaching medium action cartridges. Sooner or later itíll pivot to mouse guns, back to big magnums etc. itís how the gun companies stay in business.

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#3230012 - 01/25/20 04:25 AM Re: Is the 204 becoming obsolete? [Re: shelton573]
Displayed Name Offline
Die Hard Member III

Registered: 09/05/04
Posts: 2208
Loc: P.E.I., Canada
Iíve had a Ruger VT, Ruger #1 laminate stainless, Tikka laminate stainless and am now on my second 17-204 barrel so I hope not. As a straight .204 Ruger Iíve never given it a true fair chance to earn its stay more so because the specific model rifles I had. I liked the Ruger VT the most. Iíve been keeping an eye out for a used Cz american or Howa mini in .204. Iíd like to give the 32gr offerings a go for a couple seasons.

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#3230162 - 01/25/20 10:02 PM Re: Is the 204 becoming obsolete? [Re: shelton573]
Vance Offline
Seasoned Member

Registered: 12/30/03
Posts: 276
Loc: Southern Utah
I know mine wonít be going anywhere , I absolutely love it for coyotes. I was in the market for a bolt .223 when the .204 Came out and my wife surprised me for Christmas with a Browning Abolt Hunter 204. It took some time and a few different bullets to find what it really likes, and coyotes hate! But 39 gr. Sierra BlitzKings and some 8208 are fantastic!

Now Iím thinking I want another just because Iíve noticed lately there not being chambered in it except by only a few manufacturers. Iím thinking a Tikka, CZ or if Iím lucky a used Abolt are in my future.

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#3230167 - 01/25/20 10:12 PM Re: Is the 204 becoming obsolete? [Re: shelton573]
Del Gue Offline
New Member

Registered: 07/13/16
Posts: 3
Loc: Florida
It better not become obsolete!!!

I have designs on picking up a Savage in .204 before the year is over. It'll give me a middle step between my .17 Rems and my .223/.22-250.

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#3230202 - 01/26/20 09:09 AM Re: Is the 204 becoming obsolete? [Re: shelton573]
K22 Offline
Die Hard Member III

Registered: 10/19/03
Posts: 2224
Loc: Western NC
I recently picked up another one, Kimber Varmint. Shoots much better than I imagined it would, but then the Kimber Montana I've been using is unbelievably accurate and not very picky on loads.
Originally I was going to shoot the Varmint a little then rebarrel it to a 17-204, but now I'm thinking I need to find another donor. LOL

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#3230206 - 01/26/20 10:05 AM Re: Is the 204 becoming obsolete? [Re: shelton573]
deathwind II Offline
Seasoned Member

Registered: 12/10/10
Posts: 364
Loc: Central OH
Although I see a few models of .204s being dropped, e.g.: Tikka Varmint and maybe Savage/Cabelaís FV, I donít see any chance of the .204 Ruger becoming ďobsoleteĒ. I have three .204s, and if I wasnít running out of ďtime ď (pushing 70 years), and wanted to piss away some more retirement dollars, Iíd have at least a couple more (just saw a heavy-barreled Mossberg that takes AR mags, and almost bid on a Rem. XR-100 last week). Another deterrent would be the too-slow 1:12Ē twist rate all manufactures except maybe TC insist on continuing.
Also: Who makes a .204-chambered pistol??

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#3230379 - 01/27/20 11:24 AM Re: Is the 204 becoming obsolete? [Re: shelton573]
steve garrett Offline
Die Hard Member III

Registered: 01/18/03
Posts: 2204
Loc: tx
How about a 20 nosier?
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#3230382 - 01/27/20 11:30 AM Re: Is the 204 becoming obsolete? [Re: steve garrett]
Rustydust Offline
PM senior

Registered: 10/21/07
Posts: 6018
Loc: Southwest Idaho
Originally Posted By: steve garrett
How about a 20 nosier?


Nah! Not for me anyway. The .204 is plenty noisy enough as it is.

tt2
_________________________
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He said, "Well, I don't know and I don't care.'"


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#3230388 - 01/27/20 11:56 AM Re: Is the 204 becoming obsolete? [Re: shelton573]
Winny Fan Offline
Die Hard Member III

Registered: 08/12/11
Posts: 2085
Loc: Central Texas
The 20 Nosler is an interesting newer cartridge if you just need something different. I'm sure that it performs will perform very well in AR configurations and in good bolt action rifles that are set up properly.


Edited by Winny Fan (01/27/20 11:29 PM)
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#3230408 - 01/27/20 02:33 PM Re: Is the 204 becoming obsolete? [Re: shelton573]
B23 Offline
Die Hard Member III

Registered: 12/07/11
Posts: 2124
Loc: Pacific NW
Has Nosler ever actually released their 20 Nosler, which has a little different case dimensions from their 22 Nosler, or are you referring to the wildcat version of necking down 22 Nosler to make a 20-22 Nosler?

Nosler has been teasing us for a few years now with their official 20 Nosler but I've yet to actually see or hear of them releasing or making one or brass for it. It's weird because they have load data a 20 Nosler but no brass has ever been released to the public that I'm aware of. Hopefully I'm wrong about that because this could be a cool little 20 cal hot rod for all those small bolt face actions out there.


Edited by B23 (01/27/20 02:38 PM)

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#3230477 - 01/27/20 11:30 PM Re: Is the 204 becoming obsolete? [Re: shelton573]
Winny Fan Offline
Die Hard Member III

Registered: 08/12/11
Posts: 2085
Loc: Central Texas
I was referring to the Nosler drawing of their 20 Nosler cartridge and not the necked down 22 Nosler. Probably not the best wording in my post above so I changed it up....

_________________________
I guess I stayed at the party longer than someone's self-imposed curfew for me allowed....?

Some people think that they are quoting Einstein when in fact they are saying something that would make even Einstein say, "HUH?".

Ain't that right, Bill?

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#3231053 - 01/31/20 05:49 PM Re: Is the 204 becoming obsolete? [Re: ackleyman]
Ohiolongarm Offline
Predator Master

Registered: 09/01/19
Posts: 55
Loc: OH
That's why I have a Thompson center,1 in 10 shoots em all well.,I rarely shoot my 223,or 22-250 since the 204 came along.

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#3231093 - 01/31/20 09:54 PM Re: Is the 204 becoming obsolete? [Re: K22]
gunsbam45 Offline
Predator Master

Registered: 01/31/20
Posts: 57
Loc: KANSAS
I've been out of the predator game too long apparently. I had NO IDEA there were Kimber Montanas made in .204. I knew they did some in .223 but at the time I was looking I couldn't even get ahold of that. If anyone has one they want to sell or knows where one is for sale I want one. This is exactly what I need for the way I hunt coyotes and cats. My Remington 700 CDL I swapped onto a Mountain LSS stock with 6-18x50 Banner weighs 9.2#. A Montana in .204 is exactly what I need for an all day walking rifle.

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#3231094 - 01/31/20 09:56 PM Re: Is the 204 becoming obsolete? [Re: K22]
gunsbam45 Offline
Predator Master

Registered: 01/31/20
Posts: 57
Loc: KANSAS
Originally Posted By: K22
Originally Posted By: Winny Fan
When the 204 Ruger first came out, the big thing that Ruger and Hornady supposedly wanted was to produce the fastest commercial cartridge which meant convincingly besting the 17 Remington velocity.

The 223 based 20 caliber off-springs that they initially tried did not safely give the necessary velocity, so the 204 Ruger was created from the longer .222 Remington Magnum case which allowed a bit more case volume over the 223 Remington. In addition, Hornady had produced a 33 grain 20 caliber bullet for quite a few years to meet the needs of Tactical 20 shooters and others who shot a few other 20 caliber wildcat cartridges long before the 204 Ruger was "invented". In order to get the needed velocity in a safe manner for the 204 Ruger, the bullet weight was reduced from 33 to 32 grains. (I still have a small stache of the 33 grain Hornady bullets that I had stockpiled for my Tactical 20 that I had built in @2000.)

Those two things, coupled with a standard chamber with a bit of extra free bore ala Roy Weatherby, made the 32 grain Hornady 204 Ruger loading the commercial velocity king.

Now that the world had suddenly "discovered" a new bore diameter with the introduction of the 204 Ruger, it wasn't long before some 223 based 20 caliber wildcats were created, one of which the internet told us was the "brand spanking new" 20 Practical - a simple neck down of the 223 Rem case. In fact, 20 caliber shooters had been loading and shooting the cartridge since the early 1980's. The just called it the 5mm-223. In addition 20 caliber wildcatter had shot a cartridge for years based on the 222 Rem Mag, which for other than a couple of very minor dimensional difference, looked amazing like the "new and totally innovative" 204 Ruger cartridge.


And that is how I remember it.
While searching for an ultra light Predator rifle in a 17 Rem. I found the Kimber Montana in 204 which of course met all of my needs. Winny is right in saying it doesn't take to long researching loading manuals and observing chronograph display readings to notice that other 20 cal. or 24 cal. has to be pushed a lot to match the 204 velocities. The same holds true for the 17 Rem. vs the 17-223. Not a thing wrong with the other 20 and 17 calibers, but it's hard to overcome case volume. Similar to the old saying of cubic inch eventually takes over.
So to end my rambling, I am a big fan of the 204 and hope it stays.


I've been out of the predator game too long apparently. I had NO IDEA there were Kimber Montanas made in .204. I knew they did some in .223 but at the time I was looking I couldn't even get ahold of that. If anyone has one they want to sell or knows where one is for sale I want one. This is exactly what I need for the way I hunt coyotes and cats. My Remington 700 CDL I swapped onto a Mountain LSS stock with 6-18x50 Banner weighs 9.6# loaded with sling on. A Montana in .204 is exactly what I need for an all day walking rifle. What twist barrel is your Montana in .204?


Edited by gunsbam45 (01/31/20 10:28 PM)

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#3231096 - 01/31/20 10:42 PM Re: Is the 204 becoming obsolete? [Re: gunsbam45]
K22 Offline
Die Hard Member III

Registered: 10/19/03
Posts: 2224
Loc: Western NC
Originally Posted By: gunsbam45
Originally Posted By: K22
Originally Posted By: Winny Fan
When the 204 Ruger first came out, the big thing that Ruger and Hornady supposedly wanted was to produce the fastest commercial cartridge which meant convincingly besting the 17 Remington velocity.

The 223 based 20 caliber off-springs that they initially tried did not safely give the necessary velocity, so the 204 Ruger was created from the longer .222 Remington Magnum case which allowed a bit more case volume over the 223 Remington. In addition, Hornady had produced a 33 grain 20 caliber bullet for quite a few years to meet the needs of Tactical 20 shooters and others who shot a few other 20 caliber wildcat cartridges long before the 204 Ruger was "invented". In order to get the needed velocity in a safe manner for the 204 Ruger, the bullet weight was reduced from 33 to 32 grains. (I still have a small stache of the 33 grain Hornady bullets that I had stockpiled for my Tactical 20 that I had built in @2000.)

Those two things, coupled with a standard chamber with a bit of extra free bore ala Roy Weatherby, made the 32 grain Hornady 204 Ruger loading the commercial velocity king.

Now that the world had suddenly "discovered" a new bore diameter with the introduction of the 204 Ruger, it wasn't long before some 223 based 20 caliber wildcats were created, one of which the internet told us was the "brand spanking new" 20 Practical - a simple neck down of the 223 Rem case. In fact, 20 caliber shooters had been loading and shooting the cartridge since the early 1980's. The just called it the 5mm-223. In addition 20 caliber wildcatter had shot a cartridge for years based on the 222 Rem Mag, which for other than a couple of very minor dimensional difference, looked amazing like the "new and totally innovative" 204 Ruger cartridge.


And that is how I remember it.
While searching for an ultra light Predator rifle in a 17 Rem. I found the Kimber Montana in 204 which of course met all of my needs. Winny is right in saying it doesn't take to long researching loading manuals and observing chronograph display readings to notice that other 20 cal. or 24 cal. has to be pushed a lot to match the 204 velocities. The same holds true for the 17 Rem. vs the 17-223. Not a thing wrong with the other 20 and 17 calibers, but it's hard to overcome case volume. Similar to the old saying of cubic inch eventually takes over.
So to end my rambling, I am a big fan of the 204 and hope it stays.


I've been out of the predator game too long apparently. I had NO IDEA there were Kimber Montanas made in .204. I knew they did some in .223 but at the time I was looking I couldn't even get ahold of that. If anyone has one they want to sell or knows where one is for sale I want one. This is exactly what I need for the way I hunt coyotes and cats. My Remington 700 CDL I swapped onto a Mountain LSS stock with 6-18x50 Banner weighs 9.6# loaded with sling on. A Montana in .204 is exactly what I need for an all day walking rifle. What twist barrel is your Montana in .204?


It is a 12Twist as is the Kimber Varmint which weighs less than your Remington. Kimber still makes the Varmint in 204.

You won't like to hear this, but I originally bought 2 Montana's in 204. One I rebarreled to 17 Rem.

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#3231098 - 01/31/20 10:48 PM Re: Is the 204 becoming obsolete? [Re: K22]
gunsbam45 Offline
Predator Master

Registered: 01/31/20
Posts: 57
Loc: KANSAS
I totally get it on the rebarrel. I thought the only option was to find a .223 and rebarrel to .204 so we thinks alike. I've run Hornady 40 VMax factory ammo with good luck, but all I ever did for testing was at sight in time. I tuned the scope in at 35 yards when it was new and started shooting coyotes. I never did put it on paper again at any distance after that. I'm going to get that done the next time we have a calm day here. What does your .204 Montana like bullet wise?


Edited by gunsbam45 (01/31/20 10:59 PM)

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#3231114 - 02/01/20 07:46 AM Re: Is the 204 becoming obsolete? [Re: gunsbam45]
K22 Offline
Die Hard Member III

Registered: 10/19/03
Posts: 2224
Loc: Western NC
Originally Posted By: gunsbam45
I totally get it on the rebarrel. I thought the only option was to find a .223 and rebarrel to .204 so we thinks alike. I've run Hornady 40 VMax factory ammo with good luck, but all I ever did for testing was at sight in time. I tuned the scope in at 35 yards when it was new and started shooting coyotes. I never did put it on paper again at any distance after that. I'm going to get that done the next time we have a calm day here. What does your .204 Montana like bullet wise?


We do think alike. LOL
The bullets mine likes to shoot is the 34gr.hp Varmint Nightmare (Nosler 34gr.), the 35gr. Berger, the 37gr. CRT (no longer made), and the 37gr. Blackhole bullet. I also have a good load for the Hornady 45gr.sp. I only use hollow points in mine for chasing fur. I don't trust the plastic tip bullets to be fur friendly.

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#3231135 - 02/01/20 10:36 AM Re: Is the 204 becoming obsolete? [Re: K22]
gunsbam45 Offline
Predator Master

Registered: 01/31/20
Posts: 57
Loc: KANSAS
I have done zero experimenting with my 700. I dialed it in at 35 with Hornady 40 VMAX factory ammo and never went any further. I've shot several coyotes with it from 50 yards on out past 300 and not only never seen an exit hole, but it's tough to even find the entry hole. They act like they've been fed a live grenade on impact most of the time. I bought it because I was blowing up coyotes, and especially cats really bad and ruining them with the 22-250s. Two neighbors had killed a few cats with theirs, and showed me the lack of an exit hole at close range, so I bought one and never looked back. I never have shot a cat with this rifle yet. Dear .204 Montana, come out from amongst the woodwork!

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#3231154 - 02/01/20 02:30 PM Re: Is the 204 becoming obsolete? [Re: shelton573]
K22 Offline
Die Hard Member III

Registered: 10/19/03
Posts: 2224
Loc: Western NC
This Cat was taken at just over 225yds. with a 37gr. CRT bullet. No exit and a very small entrance.



If it was me I would buy a Kimber Montana in 223 and rebarrel with a Lilja Kimber contour barrel. I'm betting it would be cheaper than finding a Kimber Montana in 204


Edited by K22 (02/01/20 02:32 PM)

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#3231192 - 02/01/20 06:20 PM Re: Is the 204 becoming obsolete? [Re: K22]
gunsbam45 Offline
Predator Master

Registered: 01/31/20
Posts: 57
Loc: KANSAS
Thanks for posting the pic, and for the advice. I'm thinking the same thing on rebarreling simply to get the faster twist, but I've got to find one first. I'm actually an FFL dealer, but small time into Ruger revolvers mostly, and never dealt with Kimber. A friend of a friend had one NIB years back he was going to sell me, but got to thinking about it and just couldn't stand to let it go. Do you know how many years, and about what years the .223 and the .204 were in Kimber's lineup? I've been out of the rifle loop quite awhile. Also, what's the best twist to go with to rebarrel the .223?

Also, I don't know much about the 17 Remington other than it's a necked down .223. What bullets do you run in the Montana you rebarreled to 17, and what do you use it for versus the .204?


Edited by gunsbam45 (02/01/20 06:34 PM)

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#3231206 - 02/01/20 08:13 PM Re: Is the 204 becoming obsolete? [Re: shelton573]
bmash Offline
Predator Master

Registered: 08/10/15
Posts: 52
Loc: la/ms usa
I love my 204 AR! Very accurate and I got it instead of a 20 practical for commercial ammo if I ran out of reloads. Very impressive on prairie dogs.
I want a bolt gun so I went to a ďsaleĒ (not!) at a local sporting goods store. With this thread in mind I asked if they had any 204s and the guy said he hadnít seen one in a long time! Rather surprising to me as I think it is an awesome round.
I plan to find a used model 7 223 bolt face and build one.

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#3231231 - 02/01/20 10:49 PM Re: Is the 204 becoming obsolete? [Re: shelton573]
pyscodog Offline
PM Junkie

Registered: 12/04/06
Posts: 13641
Loc: okla
Wannemacher Gun Shows coming up in April in Tulsa. If theres one to be had, it will probably be there. I see your in Kansas. Maybe not to far a drive for you.
_________________________
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Stay away from negative people, they have a problem for every solution.

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#3231237 - 02/01/20 11:32 PM Re: Is the 204 becoming obsolete? [Re: pyscodog]
gunsbam45 Offline
Predator Master

Registered: 01/31/20
Posts: 57
Loc: KANSAS
Not terrible far, and less than an hour from Dad's shop where I do part of my revolver work in Bartlesville. If I don't have one by then I'll likely go see what I can see, but I hate dealing with that crowd. I want to be able to scan tables at the speed of light, but it's tough to even move in there by mid morning.

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#3231254 - 02/02/20 08:24 AM Re: Is the 204 becoming obsolete? [Re: gunsbam45]
K22 Offline
Die Hard Member III

Registered: 10/19/03
Posts: 2224
Loc: Western NC
Originally Posted By: gunsbam45
Thanks for posting the pic, and for the advice. I'm thinking the same thing on rebarreling simply to get the faster twist, but I've got to find one first. I'm actually an FFL dealer, but small time into Ruger revolvers mostly, and never dealt with Kimber. A friend of a friend had one NIB years back he was going to sell me, but got to thinking about it and just couldn't stand to let it go. Do you know how many years, and about what years the .223 and the .204 were in Kimber's lineup? I've been out of the rifle loop quite awhile. Also, what's the best twist to go with to rebarrel the .223?

Also, I don't know much about the 17 Remington other than it's a necked down .223. What bullets do you run in the Montana you rebarreled to 17, and what do you use it for versus the .204?


I'm not sure what twist to use for a 204, but bullet weight and contour would determine it.
I've gotten along well with the standard 12T, but I don't shoot 40gr. VMax bullets which I hear don't stabilize well in some 12T barrels.
The 17 Rem. is not really a necked down 223, but you can neck a 223 down and have a 17-223. The 17 neck is much longer than a 223 and 223 brass is 1.750 to 1.760 while the 17 Rem is 1.796.
I run the 25gr. Nagel pretty exclusively in mine, but in the past ran the 25gr. Berger Match Varmint that Berger no longer makes. I also have a 30gr. load with both a Nagel bullet and a Blackhole bullet. When Genco bullet co. was still in business I ran Chappies 25gr.hp's with great success. I think Reed bullets bought his equipment????
From 1971 till about 20yrs. ago I used the 17 Rem. exclusively for Red Fox, but when the Coyote population began to take over it became my main Coyote rifle and still is.
Saving pelts was the goal for many years and the 17 Rem does that in spades, but so does the 204 with the bullets I use. In the last several years I've used the 204 more than the 17 Rem. just because....
Now with pelts in this area not selling for much I might switch to using my 9.3X62 which I'm sure will give me full penetration. thumbup1

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#3231301 - 02/02/20 02:12 PM Re: Is the 204 becoming obsolete? [Re: K22]
Winny Fan Offline
Die Hard Member III

Registered: 08/12/11
Posts: 2085
Loc: Central Texas
Originally Posted By: K22
Originally Posted By: gunsbam45
Thanks for posting the pic, and for the advice. I'm thinking the same thing on rebarreling simply to get the faster twist, but I've got to find one first. I'm actually an FFL dealer, but small time into Ruger revolvers mostly, and never dealt with Kimber. A friend of a friend had one NIB years back he was going to sell me, but got to thinking about it and just couldn't stand to let it go. Do you know how many years, and about what years the .223 and the .204 were in Kimber's lineup? I've been out of the rifle loop quite awhile. Also, what's the best twist to go with to rebarrel the .223?

Also, I don't know much about the 17 Remington other than it's a necked down .223. What bullets do you run in the Montana you rebarreled to 17, and what do you use it for versus the .204?



.....The 17 Rem. is not really a necked down 223, but you can neck a 223 down and have a 17-223. The 17 neck is much longer than a 223 and 223 brass is 1.750 to 1.760 while the 17 Rem is 1.796.......


Good post K22 to correct an age old internet misconception about the 17 Remington. It is actually built off a 222 Rem Mag cartridge case to allow it to be 1.796" long.
_________________________
I guess I stayed at the party longer than someone's self-imposed curfew for me allowed....?

Some people think that they are quoting Einstein when in fact they are saying something that would make even Einstein say, "HUH?".

Ain't that right, Bill?

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#3231364 - 02/02/20 08:49 PM Re: Is the 204 becoming obsolete? [Re: Winny Fan]
gunsbam45 Offline
Predator Master

Registered: 01/31/20
Posts: 57
Loc: KANSAS
I have never heard that about the 17 before now. Same parent case as the .204. Thanks again for the info there guys. I wonder how that one got mixed up? Have the coyotes purty much wiped out the red foxes where you are in West NC? You very seldom see a red around here anymore unless it's hiding out in town. Our cat population went through the roof years back when the mange really took the coyotes down hard. Instead of seeing piles of coyote tracks on the section roads, it was several sets of cat tracks and a lone coyote here and there. When the coyotes recovered, the cats thinned down substantially, but they're slippery, so still around. The coyotes seem to have decimated the foxes here. If not the coyotes, something sure has. An red is a rare sight and I've never seen a gray up here in my life.

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#3231409 - 02/03/20 07:14 AM Re: Is the 204 becoming obsolete? [Re: gunsbam45]
K22 Offline
Die Hard Member III

Registered: 10/19/03
Posts: 2224
Loc: Western NC
Red Fox are practically gone here, but lots and lots of Grey's. Grey's are harder for the Coyotes to thin out. One of the reasons is because they can climb trees. They are actually felines. Add to that, they hardly stand still.

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#3231421 - 02/03/20 09:30 AM Re: Is the 204 becoming obsolete? [Re: K22]
Slagiatt Online
Seasoned Member

Registered: 07/04/15
Posts: 185
Loc: washington
Originally Posted By: K22
They are actually felines.


No

The gray fox (Urocyon cinereoargenteus), or grey fox, is an omnivorous mammal of the family Canidae, widespread throughout North America and Central America.

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#3231426 - 02/03/20 09:57 AM Re: Is the 204 becoming obsolete? [Re: Slagiatt]
gunsbam45 Offline
Predator Master

Registered: 01/31/20
Posts: 57
Loc: KANSAS
Never heard a gray referred to as a feline, but have had some of the older guys from North Oklahoma tell me they used to tree them with the hounds out running coons. I used to see them fairly often at the Oklahoma place.

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#3231430 - 02/03/20 11:02 AM Re: Is the 204 becoming obsolete? [Re: Winny Fan]
AWS Offline
Moderator

Registered: 02/01/03
Posts: 5052
Loc: NM
The 17-223 actually predates the 17 Rem by 10 years, it first showed up in a commercial firearm in the early 1960's by O'Brian arms and was bought by H&R and offered as the 17-223 H&R Ultra Wildcat built on the Sako L-461 action a beautiful little rifle.
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After the first shot the rest are just noise.

Make mine a Minaska.

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#3231431 - 02/03/20 11:23 AM Re: Is the 204 becoming obsolete? [Re: shelton573]
GLShooter Offline
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Registered: 01/09/05
Posts: 4985
Loc: AZ
As an addendum to the above the 17-223 was the second commercial cartridge that was offered in a rifle without any factory ammunition being available. The first was the 22-250.

Greg
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#3231654 - 02/04/20 02:54 PM Re: Is the 204 becoming obsolete? [Re: shelton573]
fishballer06 Offline
New Member

Registered: 02/03/20
Posts: 20
Loc: PA
I personally love my 204 and I can't see myself ever NOT using it.

I think now that the honeymoon faze is over with the market, guys are realizing that the small caliber market is already crowded and 204 brass is expensive to reload when compared to the 223.

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#3232046 - 02/06/20 09:49 AM Re: Is the 204 becoming obsolete? [Re: shelton573]
Zastava223rem Offline
Predator Master

Registered: 10/19/14
Posts: 99
Loc: Pennsylvania
In SW Pennsylvania, the .223 and .22-250 rein supreme for the lighter work although like everywhere else, people are jumping on the 6.5 Creedmoor bandwagon for a "do-all" kinda rifle. I only know one guy that shoots .204 and ammo availability is probably partially to blame

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#3232105 - 02/06/20 03:06 PM Re: Is the 204 becoming obsolete? [Re: shelton573]
rkite Offline
Seasoned Member

Registered: 07/02/07
Posts: 332
Loc: Arlington, Virginia
I hope not cause I would hate to downgrade to a 223 velocities or have to deal with deer rifle sized report just to go shooting.

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