Another bullet thread

isu22yote

New member
Last three yotes Ive shot with 50 grain VMax have been runners. Used to love this round but Im starting to loose confidence. Using it in 223 in an AR 15 . Shots have been around 200 yards. Granted some of it was shot placement but Im wondering if the bullet doesn't expand at that distance ? Would a softpoint work better a lower velocity is my main question or stick with the vmax and hit the shoulder squarer.
 
Soft point won't get you any better results. I would say you answered your question, stick with the v-max, and focus more on precision shot placement. "Shoulder Harness".
 
Bullet performance often gets questioned with a .223 and the vmax even more as it is popular.
I try to limit myself to 300 yds with that combo and have had many drop like a sack of spuds.
I have taken coyotes to over 600 yds with .22-250 50 gr vmax.
Vmax are known to open easy to the point of splashing on bad shots on bone.
I often use softpoints for close brushy shooting.
 
Move to the 60gr V-max. It won't splash from a 223 and has a few more grains at a slower speed to go deeper. IMHO the 50gr V-max is fine for broadside chest shots but is only going to mess up the near quarter if not a chest hit and not blow on through. I like letting cold air in. Unless you hit the spine or break two legs the dog's gonna run some.
 
I've never had a problem with them unless I hit bone or hit them in the guts.

Hit them behind the shoulder. I like to hit them in the ribs or neck with any v-max.
 
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The Vmax and a head-on facing shot gave me more runners than I cared for, in a 22cal.

The 6mm 75gr Vmax is very different, and I really like it in the 243.

Most softpoints won't expand as violently as a Vmax, so you get a bit better penetration on frontal shots. The Nosler Btip also works well.

The higher the impact velocity, the more a bullet will expand/fragment. Take a raw chicken egg, and drop it on concrete. Take another egg and hurl it onto the concrete. There is the Vmax performance at close range/high velocity vs. longer range/lower velocity.

IMHO, lol.
 
Originally Posted By: BleedsBlueI switched to $0.08 softpoints and have very few runners now. More pelt damage though

Same for me. Not sure what has changed in the VMax's in recent years. I used it exclusively for a long time with few complaints or runners. But then I started seeing more and more runners. Some I wrote off as Murphy's law. But when you see it happening again and again...doesn't take a rocket surgeon...
 
K22 and Snomanmo, what weight V-max and which caliber were you having runners? The 40-50gr Vmax (especially from a 22-250) is a way different behaving bullet than a 60gr Vmax from a 223. I'm of the opinion that the 55gr and under Vmaxs are better suited to rodents but the 60gr is great for coyotes. It is not fur friendly and broadside hits let in a lot of cold air from a 223.
 
just curious what you guys consider to be "runners" i have plenty of coyotes that have run 10-30 yards and piled up dead and i do not consider that bullet failure. dont get me wrong the ideal situation is to have the big baseball bat against a pillow sound and the coyote piling up in his tracks but in a creature of varying size and disposition this isnt always the case.
like all game animals no 2 creatures are alike. just like a deer or elk will pile up with a perfect shot one year then run 100 yards the next year with the same bullet and shot placement.
i have never dissected one to prove my theory right or wrong but my theory is this.
the DRT shot that puts a coyote on the ground is caused by the bullet causing such shock that it overloads the nervous system and shuts it down right where it stands. the ones that run 30 yards are coyotes that are tough enough to overcome this initial shock but die from internal bleeding and "loss of oil pressure" as my friend puts it.
not sure if this is the case in your situation but figured id throw out my 2 cents to ponder on.
 
Sounds about right to me too. Seen dogs blown up pretty good run a ways too. I'm using the 60 TMK this year out of my AR and haven't lost any yet.
 
I've put good shots on coyotes and had them run a little ways. If I recover the coyote the bullet did what it was supposed to do. If I don't I probably didn't hit the coyote good enough.
 
I use an AR and when I first started hunting coyotes I went with a 55gr vmax. It would drop them but within about a minute they would get back up and head for the hills because it was splashing on bone. Two things I did that stopped this was go to a 62gr powerpoint and like someone here has said before don't stop shooting when you think they are dead shoot until they know they are dead. This is what has worked for me YMMV
 
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I shot last fur season and part of this season with the 50 gr vmax out of a suppressed 22-250. Was not unhappy with the terminal performance on shots past 200 yards. However the 125 yard shots and under there was a tendency to fragment to quickly. I was using bullets from an older lot(20 years). I have switched bullets and are giving Bart's ultra 52 gr a go. So far accuracy and terminal results have been very good. I still compare everything to the performance of the Nosler 55 BT at 22-250 velocity and may end up returning to them.
 
I'd say to focus more on precision shots, rather than just smacking him wherever you can. That being said, I use 58 grain v max in my 243, 50 grain in my 223, and 45 in my 22-250.
 
Originally Posted By: HellgateK22 and Snomanmo, what weight V-max and which caliber were you having runners? The 40-50gr Vmax (especially from a 22-250) is a way different behaving bullet than a 60gr Vmax from a 223. I'm of the opinion that the 55gr and under Vmaxs are better suited to rodents but the 60gr is great for coyotes. It is not fur friendly and broadside hits let in a lot of cold air from a 223.

I used the 40,50 and 55gr Vmax out of a 223 and 222Remmag. My son uses the 60gr Vmax in his 223wssm.

The higher velocity of the wssm seems to shred the Vmax, and he gets a fair amount of splashes, but, so far, only one coyote has gone over 20yds hit with that combo (out of dozens). The higher velocity, about 3,700+fps, hits them very hard, even if it splashes.

We had one trying to get downwind of us, and I got it stopped broadside, about 180yds out. I'm watching through my bino as he shoots. We heard the bullet "Whap' and the coyote drops. Fractions of a second later,still looking through the bino, I see this brown thing fall out of the sky by the coyote. We get over to the coyote, and find the 'brown thing' was about a 6" section of the pelt, from just behinc the shoulder blades. Man, I wish I had that on camera, lol.
 
Originally Posted By: HellgateK22 and Snomanmo, what weight V-max and which caliber were you having runners? The 40-50gr Vmax (especially from a 22-250) is a way different behaving bullet than a 60gr Vmax from a 223. I'm of the opinion that the 55gr and under Vmaxs are better suited to rodents but the 60gr is great for coyotes. It is not fur friendly and broadside hits let in a lot of cold air from a 223.

They were 55gr. I switched over to either 60gr SP's in my .223 or 45gr SP's in my .204 and the runners stopped. I might agree with you about the 55gr for varmints, but it sure seems odd that for a while they worked great but now they are not. So something changed.

I will definitely give those 60gr Vmax's a try.
 
Varmint bullets are made to blow up little varmints like chucks and prairie dogs that weigh a couple pounds, they're poor on coyotes unless you get perfect shots and dont hit bone. If you're trying to hit shoulder blades with a vmax you're not going to have a good time, a SP would be much better.

I gave up on vmaxs and a handful of other soft and weak bullets, switched to 65SGK soft points with max charge of powder and have had less runners and pelt damage is almost nonexistent.

I just started playing around with 53gr TSX and getting decent accuracy and high velocities, I haven't taken them out hunting yet but I'm getting the speeds of a small varmint bullet but I expect they will be able to handle bones, unlike the varmint bulllets.
 
Originally Posted By: Yotarunnerjust curious what you guys consider to be "runners" i have plenty of coyotes that have run 10-30 yards and piled up dead and i do not consider that bullet failure. dont get me wrong the ideal situation is to have the big baseball bat against a pillow sound and the coyote piling up in his tracks but in a creature of varying size and disposition this isnt always the case.
like all game animals no 2 creatures are alike. just like a deer or elk will pile up with a perfect shot one year then run 100 yards the next year with the same bullet and shot placement.
i have never dissected one to prove my theory right or wrong but my theory is this.
the DRT shot that puts a coyote on the ground is caused by the bullet causing such shock that it overloads the nervous system and shuts it down right where it stands. the ones that run 30 yards are coyotes that are tough enough to overcome this initial shock but die from internal bleeding and "loss of oil pressure" as my friend puts it.
not sure if this is the case in your situation but figured id throw out my 2 cents to ponder on.

I've voiced my opinion of the DRT histaria before, I dont understand it, especially when the road to DRT is riddled with pelt damage, inconsistentcies and inhumane kills.

I think it's a fad, I hope it's a fad. The marketing for sexy looking pointy plastic tip bullets flying at chrono melting speeds will fizzle along with their performance.

I have no problems walking another 30 yards to pick up a coyote when the bullet does what I expect it to do. DRT is neat, but not by a long shot as neat as pelt damage and wounded escaped coyotes are completely frustrating and unacceptable.

As far as I know with how an animal hit in the chest dies in its tracks has to do with a huge spike in blood pressure transfering to the brain and causing instant aneurysms or strokes throughout the brain.
 
I may not be vetted on here as far as harvest counts, and thats fine. I will not claim to not have had predators run off or not be anchored, because will happen, no matter the caliber, no matter the distance, I'm convinced of that. I've witnessed yotes try to run, and make it 80+yrds, with no brisket, no ability to control their front legs... yes...they ran on their hind legs... We have tried many different shotgun loads, starting with all your fancy T shot and BB's and tungsten this and that. As well as all different leads from different manufactures. REMINGTON, #4 BUCK, 3", NOT 3 1/2", 3" is the most lethal, with any choke,standard 3-4 that come with interchangeable, to fixed old and new modified/fulls, to just about everything threaded for Benelli/Berretta,turkey this/that full, extra, improved, etc, load to 70yrds. Now for .224... .223/.22-250, bolts and autos, factory, and many, many handloads....55 G NOSLER BALLISTIC TIP. Not 60, 69, 50, 45, ...55GRAIN! Second to 55 G Sierra Blitzking. I feel that we have thoroughly tested all available to us, and there will never be a replacement for shot placement as well as presentable shot for placement. These are the hammers as we know it. I feel Remington will replace that buck load with something different. Stock up!
 
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