Couple thermal questions

dirtytough

Active member
Ok first off I have zero experience using thermal. I would be using it for coyotes in ND. I’ve read up on it a bit.

There is obviously a big range when it comes to prices. I was planning on getting a good scanner like the Helion 640 XP38, and something not quite as good for a sight. The HOGSTER R 384 2.0-8.0x35mm was kinda what I was leaning towards.

That’s around $6500 going off NG’s prices. Or I could get a REAP-IR 35mm Mini Thermal Riflescope for around $5600.

Does anyone use one thermal for scope and scanner? I would want to use it handheld and as soon as I spot something I would mount it on the rifle. Or is that not feasible?

I assume the Reap is the better thermal of those listed. But which way would be better for killing? Scope plus scanner or one unit? I could get the Reap and a lower grade scanner. But it seems like the scanner would be used more then the scope. That’s why I figured I would get a better scanner then scope.

Regards, Branden
 
Lots of ND traffic on here recently. I may be drumming up too much ND interest in thermal hunting
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I hear so many people say for a scanner all I care about is seeing something hot and then switch over to my gun. I agree, but here is where I don't. You will be looking through your thermal 95-98% of the time. It is what I use to verify calling locations, help finding the place to set up, scan during the stand, find the coyote after the kill, and find my way back to the truck. It sounds like you have a similar philosophy based on your post.

I don't want to look at a poor image all night long. It would give me a headache, so I really like my scanners to have a great image and a decent FOV. For me there is a fine line between too low of native mag and too high. If too high, you have to sweep more. If too low, you can't really get a feeling if the coyote is 1 mile away or 600 yards away. I love my Pulsar Helion XP38. The XQ models of the Pulsar I personally believe are too narrow to make a great coyote scanner but there are instances where they could work. Lots of hog hunters like them.

I didn't like any scope/scanner combos until the Hogster-R 35mm and 25mm released. They are 384 res but my hunting partner has been scanning with one, and absolutely loves it. The 25mm has a wider FOV so if used mainly as a scanner would probably make the most sense.

There are people who use a QD mount and move from scanner to shooting. However, I would strongly recommend against this. It is fine for hog hunting where you see the hogs, and stalk into place, and then mount your scope and start firing. Still not ideal, but OK. However, the thought in total darkness of trying to get a thermal mounted on my gun with coyotes bearing down on me, just isn't feasible. If they always showed up a mile away, and slowly trotted in, it might be different, but they always find a way to surprise a person even in open country. Given the choice, I would not use one. I would rather recommend keeping it on the gun and scanning with it mounted. This gets old really fast too, but at least you are not scrambling to get it mounted in the heat of the moment.

I would recommend one of the following combos:

Gun:
Flir PTS536
Hogster-R 35mm
Pulsar Thermion XM38

I have used all but the Thermion. The Hogster will have a better background image and be more compact. The Flir is the most accurate thermal scope I have ever used and is better at distance, and the Thermion would be a great choice on a bolt gun especially.

Scanner:
Pulsar Helion XP38
Hogster-R 25mm or 35mm

The 35mm could also be used as a scanner. My hunting partner does all the time. If you use it almost exclusively as a scanner, I would say probably the 25mm but if you may use it on a gun, I would lean towards the 35mm.
 
I've been interested for a few years. I just finally have my big game gear all squared away. Now I am looking to add thermal for predator hunting. I do appreciate your time and effort on here helping with reviews, education, etc.

Ok here is where I'm at.

Thermion XM38 + Helion XP38= $7100
PTS536 + Helion XP38= $7600
Hogster-R 35MM + Helion XP38= $6450

REAP-IR 35MM Mini + Hogster R 25MM= $7725


Out of those 4 combo's here are my thoughts. Using the Hogster as a scope might be a little on the low end mag wise. It is 2X compared to the others at 3.5x-4x. Not a lot of difference between the Thermion and PTS536 on paper that I can see. The PTS536 has the edge on the hz and the resolution by a touch.

The REAP/Hog combo is the most expensive. Obviously the scope would most likely outperform clarity wise the 3 above. But how much would I be giving up using the Hogster 25mm as a scanner compared to the Helion XP38? If I went this route I would plan on upgrading the scanner next year and throwing the Hog on a gun for friends or my boy.

The decision isn't easy since I've never used thermal before. I buy the best glass I can for hunting big game. But I don't know what will work the best when it comes to thermal. I am a "If I can't spot it, how can I kill it?" type of guy. As an example even on backpack hunts I pack the BTX/ATX/95mm Swaro. It weighs a ton but with all 3 pieces I know I am spotting as much game as possible.


The Hog 35 + Helion XM38 combo is the easiest to swallow. But I don't mind spending more if it will help me be much more successful.

Again I appreciate all the insight and recommendations.

Regards, Branden
 
From a scope perspective, it depends on yardage. If most of your coyotes at night are 75-150 yards, the Hogster-R 35mm would be an excellent choice. It isn't that it can't reach farther than that but it is a short-medium range scope. If most of your shots are 150-300 yards, I would lean towards the higher base mag scopes.

From a scanner perspective, I own the Helion XP38 and the Hogster-R35mm and currently have a 25mm on lone from Bering. The XP38 does have a better image as it should, but it is also 1.6K higher priced from the 35mm and 1.1K higher than 35mm. The difference in image isn't as big as I would have thought. I always preach your scanner should have a good image. If you will only ever use it as a scanner, then probably the XP38. If you want to potentially throw it on a gun, the 35mm or the 25mm.
 
skinney that is new price.

The REAP-IR is actually $5421. Its the IRMS-35 if that matters. Not the IRMS-35-2. I can get the IR-Hunter 60mm for about $6100.

I'm torn. I don't really want to spend that type of money. But since I can get a deal on a top end scope I am leaning that way. Knowing how I am I kind of doubt I will be real satisfied with a lower end scanner though after using something like the Trijicon.
 
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Originally Posted By: dirtytoughskinney that is new price.

The REAP-IR is actually $5421. Its the IRMS-35 if that matters. Not the IRMS-35-2. I can get the IR-Hunter 60mm for about $6100.

I'm torn. I don't really want to spend that type of money. But since I can get a deal on a top end scope I am leaning that way. Knowing how I am I kind of doubt I will be real satisfied with a lower end scanner though after using something like the Trijicon.

If you can tell me where to buy a new MK 3 60mm for $6100 I’ll buy two more. Where can you get a new one for that price?
 
Originally Posted By: g BoOriginally Posted By: dirtytoughskinney that is new price.

The REAP-IR is actually $5421. Its the IRMS-35 if that matters. Not the IRMS-35-2. I can get the IR-Hunter 60mm for about $6100.

I'm torn. I don't really want to spend that type of money. But since I can get a deal on a top end scope I am leaning that way. Knowing how I am I kind of doubt I will be real satisfied with a lower end scanner though after using something like the Trijicon.

If you can tell me where to buy a new MK 3 60mm for $6100 I’ll buy two more. Where can you get a new one for that price?

Me too. I'm in for a MK3 60mm for $6100. Please post a link to whoever is selling them at that price. MAP is $8999.00.
 
I’ll tell once I figure out which thermal I want to purchase and purchase it. I don’t want to miss out myself. Really leaning towards the REAP.

If I could get a good deal on a Pulser I would probably go that route. I called Tom @NG a few times and no answer. Figured I would check to see what a sponsor can do on a thermal setup.

I’m amazed so many people can afford top end thermals. I make a decent wage and I cringe when I think about spending that much money.

REAP 35mm verses the MK3 60mm? I do feel like the MK would be better for where I hunt with the 4.5x zoom. Not a lot of differences between them otherwise besides the weight and lens size that I can tell.

REAP + Hogster
MK 3 + Hogster
Thermion XM38 + Helion XP38

That’s what I’m debating between now. Not sure which Hogster I would go with. As a person that has never used thermal will I be happy with the Pulsar setup? Or should I just pay a little more, get a great scope and an ok scanner? Then upgrade the scanner later?

I’ve got the green light. I just want to make the correct purchase the first time.
 
Originally Posted By: dirtytoughIf I could get a good deal on a Pulser I would probably go that route. I called Tom @NG a few times and no answer. Figured I would check to see what a sponsor can do on a thermal setup.

That’s what I’m debating between now. Not sure which Hogster I would go with. Tom is hunting with Al Morris filming a FoxPro episode. Leave him a message. The prices you were quoting on a Trijicon seem too good to be true.

For the Hogster question, if all you’re looking for is a scanner, then go with a 25 mm. If you’re looking for a scanner that could also be as a backup scope, I would lean towards the 35 mm.
 
I know for a fact that with some of the online discount stores if you call them and talk they will come off 5-6 hundred dollars on a $7000 dollar purchase. BUT, be careful, they are notorious for getting the wrong models and specs listed and getting customer service thru them is more difficult than using a good retailer like the sponsors on this forum
 
Originally Posted By: KirschTom is hunting with Al Morris filming a FoxPro episode. Leave him a message. The prices you were quoting on a Trijicon seem too good to be true.

For the Hogster question, if all you’re looking for is a scanner, then go with a 25 mm. If you’re looking for a scanner that could also be as a backup scope, I would lean towards the 35 mm.


I did leave a message and sent him an email. I figured he was probably out for the holidays or something.



For everyone else on the price thing. The only reason I mentioned it is because I figured I would get better advice on which thermals to get. Like if spending $.....more is worth it to go for a higher end scope. I don't care if anyone that I have never met believes me or not. If you have advice on which thermals to get I would appreciate it. If all you want to do is say "you are wrong" I can start a new thread just for that. That way I don't get this one all cluttered up with useless posts.

Regards,
 
Originally Posted By: dirtytoughFor everyone else on the price thing. The only reason I mentioned it is because I figured I would get better advice on which thermals to get. Like if spending $.....more is worth it to go for a higher end scope. I don't care if anyone that I have never met believes me or not. If you have advice on which thermals to get I would appreciate it. If all you want to do is say "you are wrong" I can start a new thread just for that. That way I don't get this one all cluttered up with useless posts.

Regards,

Oh my god, it's like my wife just walked into the room HAHAHA
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Originally Posted By: dirtytough The only reason I mentioned it is because I figured I would get better advice on which thermals to get. Like if spending $.....more is worth it to go for a higher end scope. I don't care if anyone that I have never met believes me or not. If you have advice on which thermals to get I would appreciate it. I don't own a high-end thermal. I own several mid-range thermals. No one can answer the question but really yourself. The reason is you will rarely hear of someone wishing they didn't have as good of a thermal. You see lots of people upgrading, but very few downgrading.

The really high-end thermals can help with ID at longer ranges, and they produce a better image in most circumstances. The BAE core in the Trijicon and N-Vision scopes are really good. For my hunting area and my hunting style, I can see as far as I need to shoot with my PTS536, and I can scan as far as I need to with my Pulsar Helion XP38, and my Hogster-R 35mm is my backup scope and scanner and does everything very well. I could put them all together and be at about the same price as a MKIII 60 with accessories. For me, this was a better investment but not to someone else.

However, do I acknowledge the fact the MKIII 60 has a better image, absolutely. For me and what I was willing to spend, the equipment I use does what I need it to. However, I would never put down or be negative for someone who wants to spend the higher dollars to get the best possible image.

If the investment is going to bother you trying to justify the cost, you probably have your answer. On the opposite side, if you will wonder ever time you are out hunting how the Trijicon would look etc, you probably have your answer.

 
I hunted for a little less than a year with my first thermal. It was a Pulsar Apex XQ38. I killed around 30 coyotes with it during that time period and really enjoyed it. Since I was just starting into thermal hunting I didn’t know what to expect and I was a little afraid to spend a lot of money since I didn’t have very much success prior to that using lights. After I bought the Apex it was hard to believe what I was missing while trying to hunt with lights. It not only made it possible for me to kill more coyotes but I think it made me a better caller because I was able to learn more about coyote body language and the way they react to different calls. My only complaint about the Apex was that I either had to use CR123’s or an external battery pack to power the scope. I used the battery pack mostly, but it was a little aggravating dealing with the wire. Then one night I had the opportunity to look through a Trijicon reap 35mm and a MK3 35mm. The clarity was unreal in both of those scopes. For the next couple of months I started looking at upgrading my scope to something different. I wanted something with rechargeable batteries and better clarity than my Apex. I also wanted something with a base mag of at least 2-2.5 power. After looking through several scopes and researching each scope I ended up with the IR Hunter MK3 60mm. It has a base mag of 4.5x, but I scan with a Helion xp38 so that wasn’t a problem for me. I have killed 6 coyotes with the Trijicon over the past few weeks and have to admit that I don’t regret my decision at all. Now, I will also admit that there isn’t one of those 6 coyotes that I wouldn’t have been able to kill with my Apex. It all comes down to what you want. I think for the money one of the Hogsters is going to be hard to beat, but if you can afford it and want the Trijicon I would go for it.
 
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