How to start calling at night? newb needs guidance!

S

Syoungs

New member
Hello all,
I would like to get into hunting coyotes at night. I haven't don't this before, but have hunted in the day. I'm pretty new to taking predator hunting seriously, but my state seems to have a big problem with predators, so I'm going to start doing my part.

Problem is, I'm not sure where to begin! we have a couple E callers in my group, a FoxPro inferno and a lucky duck revolt, both with decoys on call. we have a few dedicated AR uppers, and we have some money.

My dad and myself are planning on purchasing digital night vision scopes of some sort, most likely the photon rt, but still haven't fully ruled out the ATN scopes.
The issues I keep getting myself hung up on is the scanning the terrain for incoming dogs. I see a lot of people on here talking about using a thermal imager to find the coyotes as they come in, and switch to the NV on the rifle to verify it is a coyote, and take the shot with. My budget may not allow the purchase of a thermal imager though.
Is there any way around using a scanning device? using lights to scan with, and switching to NV after locating? quick release rings on the rifles so we can scan with a scope, and shoot with the other? just scan with the rifle? Any guidance here would be appreciated!
I am going to put off buying a suppressor later this month, and instead go with buying a NV optic. There may be money left for a thermal scanner if I buy a used one possibly.

How about lights instead of NV? I still think the investment to rig a couple guns with lights, and get a couple headlamps or handhelds will be sizeable (haven't even looked into it enough to know for sure), and I'm not sure what the success rate between lights and digital NV is. Will a lower end NV scope such as a wraith, photon or ATN be a significant step up in night hunting success?

I appreciate any feedback, or lessons from the school of hard knocks your willing to share, not just about NV/lights, but on the entirety of night hunting!
Thanks!
 
Digital night vision is effective for shooting. Honestly a decent thermal handheld is a must or you will miss more than than you will probably see. I think most or all here will agree just take the plunge on a good thermal handheld.
If you like coyote hunting just buy once cry once and you won't regret it for one moment.
 
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Originally Posted By: varminter .223Digital night vision is effective for shooting. Honestly a decent thermal handheld is a must or you will miss more than than you will probably see. I think most or all here will agree just take the plunge on a good thermal handheld.
If you like coyote hunting just buy once cry once and you won't regret it for one moment.
You can mess around with lights and other options, but as Varminter .223 says, you will end up at thermal eventually, if you like night hunting. Others who have used lights and other night methods can chime in. However, for me, if I couldn't scan with thermal, I would quit night hunting.
 
Varminter.223 laid it out pretty good. You won't like scanning with the gun no matter what you have on it. It's not safe and definitely not comfortable. Using lights to scan then switching to night vision is sorta doing it backwards IMO. Hand held thermal scanners are worth their weight in gold. They don't have to be the ultra high dollar rig either. You just need to know there is an incoming heat source out there and then you can ID with NV.
 
Do lights work out in the desert? I'm in eastern washington, and have found multiple places to hunt in the broken lands and finger draws by fields, mostly consisting of old growth sagebrush and low height grasses. I've been looking at sniper hog light kits, thinking maybe it would get us going in the right direction and break into the night hunting game. Then again, the buy once cry once mantra has typically worked great for me.
I'll probably start researching handheld thermals on the used market and see how feasible it is. I cant drop a ton of money right now, but I'm comfortable spending up to 1500 if needed. (For a sight and scanner)
 
You and I are in the same boat it seems. I’m leaning towards the hogster r 25mm since I can scan with it or shoot with it but it’s $2,145 from NG right now and is just out of reach if I want to keep my marriage too.
 
I used lights for several years and killed fox and some coyotes (we don't have many here). I will be the first to admit that I probably didn't do as well as the guys with the thermal and NV but I still had fun. If you start off with lights you will learn and if you make the move to thermal you will appreciate it that much more. I am using NV and thermal this year and in a couple weeks I have killed more than I would normally kill in several months.
 
Looking around, I think my only affordable option is to get a leupold tracker 2 hd, and a photon scope. Itll stretch my budget some,but its the cheapest setup by over 1k bucks. Lots of reviews out there on the original leupold tracker, but not a ton on the 2 hd, with the 320 resolution. The videos I have seen makes it look like identifying heat at 2-300 yards is possible. I may pick one up and try it, if it doesnt work return it for a good set of lights for a year or so.
 
I would not waste my money on the leupold tracker. I would keep saving until I could afford something that worked well. Not trying to discourage you just trying to reinforce how important the thermal is and that must be quality enough to be worthwhile.
 
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Don't waste your money on the Leupold..........I see more people buy those and instantly regret it. If I were in your shoes, I would buy a photon HD, upgrade the IR, and call it good. Running lights then switching over to NV doesn't make a lot of sense to me.

I have a buddy who uses a photon. It does the job. But like all who start in this game, he to is currently saving for a thermal.

I've never had a dedicated scanner, I scan with my rifle. I know a lot don't like to do that, but I've done it for 5+ years now and never had an issue.
 
Don't waste your money on the Leupold..........I see more people buy those and instantly regret it. If I were in your shoes, I would buy a photon HD, upgrade the IR, and call it good. Running lights then switching over to NV doesn't make a lot of sense to me.

I have a buddy who uses a photon. It does the job. But like all who start in this game, he to is currently saving for a thermal.

I've never had a dedicated scanner, I scan with my rifle. I know a lot don't like to do that, but I've done it for 5+ years now and never had an issue.
 
I'm like you bocephuss. I scan with my photon. Really isn't uncomfortable if you have a good tripod and something like a pig saddle to hold the rifle. I'm sure I miss some coyotes depending on the terrain but it works well. Still hope to get a thermal monocular someday
 
The plan is to run the gun on a tripod. looking for an upgraded head for my brunton legs now, the stock head wouldn't work well. having 2 of the photons available, my original plan was to leave one off a gun, via a quick attach mount, and use that as a scanner. I see why nightvision wouldn't be the best tool for scanning now that I look more into it.

boy, if someone came out with a handheld scanner for 1200$ or so that just flat worked, they wouldn't be able to keep them in stock!

I gotta think I can get the photon and be out hunting this winter, and have some success, while I save for a thermal rig.

Thanks for all the advice!
 
Predator hunting is hard and it can have a large learning curve when you first get into it. That's why people are willing to spend big bucks on gear to improve their odds. Striking out sucks when you're new. You think you're not doing something right, you're not sure exactly why you're unsuccessful so you keep buying new gear to improve your odds.

Obviously I'm not criticizing people who do spend big $$$ on gear but just don't rely on it. Knowing how to use the wind, hide in the shade, patience etc. those are the things that really make you successful.

All that being said I just bought a Wraith and I'm really looking forward to seeing if it's a game changer. I also have a FLIR Scout for scanning. I think I paid about $500 for it. It's not perfect but it works. If its not super humid I can ID heat signatures out to about 150-200yds. If I'm somewhere I can potentially call them in from farther out I use a red light (Foxpro Fire Eye to be specific). I never feel bad about using light, I prefer it a lot of times because it's impossible to miss those big bright saucer eyes!

My point is don't let the lack of gear stop you from getting out there. You can't shoot anything from your couch, unless you have a bad-[beeep] couch...

Dad rant over...
 
There is no doubt that NV is a step above lights, and no doubt that thermal scanning with either Gen 2 or 3 or thermal to shoot is the current top of the line. For the average young family man, that's a lot of money to invest when not knowing if you will even like it.

Night hunting is not for everyone. Some people think they will like it, but then realize things seem to go bump in the dark. Plus in an area with not just coyotes or bobcats, but bears including grizzlies, mt. lions, and wolves things can appear really hairy to some people.

With that said, you can kill predators with lights. In fact, they will force you to become an accomplished night hunter. Once you succeed the first time, it can "light" a fire in you for more. It isn't easy and there is a learning curve, but if you stick it out until you can kill predators with a light, then you can certainly kill them with more advanced gear.

When using lights, keep scanning constantly and don't turn it on and off. A head mount scanner is tough to beat. It doesn't take a lot of power to see eyes. In fact one of the mistakes is using too much light when scanning. The reason for being able to scan rapidly is so you can detect predators before they get right on you.

Keep the scan light on until you can bring the gun light to bear. A gun light with an adjustable rheostat is a bonus as it gives you the ability to bring up the power as you need it for a shot without just overwhelming the predator with light. It is best to keep the call if using an E-call close to you so the eyes will be looking your way and reflect eyes.

That can be a problem with dangerous predators focused on the sound near you, so care needs to be taken on how you set up, and always how the wind is. Remember nothing at night appears as it does in the daytime. It is a whole different game.

 
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Just my .02 cents. I finally broke down and bought a sniper hawg lights 66LRX for scanning, and shoot with an atn thermal on my .223 ar which is mounted on a tripod and I gotta say I absolutely love this setup. I don't generally take shots longer than 200 yards because my thermal isn't a high end optic. That light will reach out to 650-700 yards in red easy and with the adjustable dimmer tail cap, you can keep the scope focused in tight, but turn down the intensity to levels that won't hopefully spook your prey.

I also have an ATN NV scope, that works fine for closer shots as well with the factory included IR Illuminator.

I'll add this, the reason I like using that SHL to scan, is because I can watch the animal come in and if I want, I can range it with my range finder as well. The other perk to using a light to scan, is that when using a light, it's a heck of a lot easier to judge distance without a range finder. It takes two eyes to have depth perception and when you use an optic device at night you only get to use 1 eye...

I'll also add that I don't have a lot of experience night hunting, and am still learning this as I go so take what I say with that understanding. There are others here like Kirsch who have far more experience using the higher end thermal that are very knowledgeable. [beeep], I just got my first thermal kill (and night kill) a week and a half ago. Too bad the bastage was nasty and mangy.... Needless to say though, I'm absolutely hooked...

Another thing to add is when you do start calling, start your call off fairly quiet. You never know what might be just in front of you when you first set up and if you crank that call way up your going to scare them off. And don't be afraid to make long stands. The stand where I got my first night/thermal kill was 45 minutes into the stand... I knew there was coyotes in the area, so I stuck it out, and it worked. After you shoot one, KEEP CALLING. Literally 15 minutes after I shot the mangy coyote, I had another one show up but it hung up a ways out and I couldn't get a good shot at it. KEEP CALLING!
 
Originally Posted By: LittleAndy There are others here like Kirsch who have far more experience using the higher end thermal that are very knowledgeable.
Very kind words but I just want to clarify, all thermal is expensive but I use what I consider entry-mid level. I don't own a thermal that costs more than 3.7K. Yes, that is still a lot of money but not for high-end thermal. Just saying
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To bad Colorado doesn't allow thermal or NV for night hunting... It would definitely help aid the hunter to ID the animal sooner and with a better certainty. I believe a hunter would have better and more ethical shots at the end of the day.

YES every hunter should know yhere intended target before the shot but we all know this is not always the case with some.

I also would like to have them legal because those dang mountain lions are sneaky and popup out of the blue. It makes for a interesting walk back to the truck at times.
 
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