300 Blackout pistol bullet and powder questions—-update

moonshine44

Active member
Howdy. I'm planning to put together an AR pistol in .300 blackout mostly as a toy and maybe bedside gun. I'm currently planning on an 8.5" barrel and using some of the lighter bullets, in the 110 grain to 130 grain range. I've been "talking" to GLShooter via PM and he gave me some good info but he hasn't done much work with the .300, so I'm throwing it out there for the rest of you fine folks to take a shot at, so to speak. So here we go:

What powder load for that bullet weight range? If you have some specific advice vis a vis amount of powder per bullet weight I'd be tickled to get it. Greg suggested 8208, CFE223 and RL10. I currently have 8208 and H110 on hand but I'm not dead set on using what I already have.

Where to buy bullets? Greg says Shooter's Pro Shop or Rocky Mountain Reloading, and again I'm open to advice.

What about poly coated hardcast lead? The company that I buy most of my cowboy action bullets from has 130 grain polycoated bullets that they say will work with either rifle or pistol powders.

Thanks in advance for any info I can get!
 
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h110 is a good choice for bullets in that 110-130gr. seems to like to be real close to 100% case fill. start at mins and work your way up slowly to max. lil gun is another good choice for lighter bullets, but it does burn a bit hotter (actual temp wise) so it will heat your gun up quicker under rapid fire.

if you want to play with coated cast, make sure you intend to run them relatively slow as a super. in a fast twist barrel running them hard can spin them apart. 4227 would be a good powder to try as it would download reasonably for that bullet weight class, and still produces enough gas to cycle your upper.

most folks from what i read tend to save the coated/cast for running subs - usually around the 200 grain weight though.

i like shooters pro shops for buying nosler blems - 110 varmageddon, or the 125gr ballistic tips (the green ones) are a good accurate bullet

in the hornady line the 125 sst, the 110 vmax are great supersonic bullets


another cheap plinker that is reliable is the hornady 150gr fmjbt (#3037). good for punching paper or dinging steel, even not on sale can be had for around 25 cents a bullet, less if you catch blems, on sale or bought in bulk. these run well over top of a stout load of 1680 or shooters world blackout.



for bump in the night stuff - Barnes Vor-TX 110 gr Tac-TX blacktip ammo is the ticket. its the first bullet engineered to operate at blackout speeds, will function (expand) down to around 1400 fps, is barrier blind, heavy clothing will not cause it to fail and still one of the gold standards for hunting/self defense.

almost nobody will recommend reloaded ammo for home defense - a defense lawyer can and will use that against you in court, and can (falsely) claim you're doctoring up special loads to be extra lethal or some nonsense.


hth
 
Originally Posted By: Plant.One

almost nobody will recommend reloaded ammo for home defense - a defense lawyer can and will use that against you in court, and can (falsely) claim you're doctoring up special loads to be extra lethal or some nonsense.


hth

Thanks for the info. I wholeheartedly agree on the factory loads for defense thing. All of my carry guns are loaded with factory ammo as would this one be for “bump in the night” duty.

I’ll probably get a sample pack of the cast 130’s and play with them before I throw the whole dog into that hunt.

Thanks again!

Anybody else?
 
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Agree with Plant.1 on serious factory rounds "for bump in the night stuff ".
I use Lil'Gun and very supersonic 110 VMAX for hunting, and they are best for groups from my 16"
 
So after doing a boatload of research on the Internet I've kind of settled on H110 and Hodgdon Lil Gun for powders, with CFE BLK as a definite maybe. Hodgdon only has loads for 16" barrels in their reloading data center, and this build is going to be 8 1/2". Is it safe to work downward a skosh from the minimums with either of these powders? I know I'll probably get flamed for asking this, but I'm curious. I don't generally use max loads in any caliber and I tend to stick with published loads, but I also am open to experimentation once in a while if I know I'm not going to blow myself and my guns up.

Thanks!
 
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Mine is a suppressed 10.5 inch.

My go to HUNTING load is 125 sst with h110. Very accurate and very deadly. Not max load.

Subs I use lil gun.

Very happy with both
 
I’m not planning to suppress this gun any time soon. Don’t have the bucks, so I’ll be shooting it with non sub loads. With the short barrel I’m hoping to be able to keep muzzle rise down as much as possible. It’s going to have a brake on it but if I can help it with loading that would be great. That’s why I’m wondering about loads below minimums.

Thanks!
 
Originally Posted By: moonshine44So after doing a boatload of research on the Internet I've kind of settled on H110 and Hodgdon Lil Gun for powders, with CFE BLK as a definite maybe. Hodgdon only has loads for 16" barrels in their reloading data center, and this build is going to be 8 1/2". Is it safe to work downward a skosh from the minimums with either of these powders? I know I'll probably get flamed for asking this, but I'm curious. I don't generally use max loads in any caliber and I tend to stick with published loads, but I also am open to experimentation once in a while if I know I'm not going to blow myself and my guns up.

Thanks!

h110 gets goofy at low case fill levels. its not a powder you want to play the downloading game with.. stick with published minimums and work up. min loads are going to be quite soft. you probably wont see good es/sd until you get closer to max though.

if you want a nice gentle load, there seems to be a node with lil gun at around 17 grains with 125gr class projectiles. ive had good luck on that number with both nosler and hornady bullets. ironically enough it works for the 123gr sst (resized) as well..... i dont even adjust the seating die. or my scope for that matter
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the 125sst and the 123sst are so close for me that i get ES's in the low 30's on mixed magazine's of the two.


lil gun however - tends to burn the base off poly coated bullets. hi-tek (which is what many bullet makers use) is smoky as it is, and lil gun is known to burn (temperature wise, not speed) quite hot. the two make for quite a smokefest when paired togther.




re: 16" data vs 8½" data - the only difference is going to be in the MV... otherwise the pressure data should be consistent.




hornady's 8th has some 300 whisper pistol data... but thats also specifically for a 10" 1:10 twist TC Contender and not relevant to our discussion of ar's. i would not recommend using it without some very careful load development in a fast twist AR.
 
Thank you, sir, for all of the good information you’ve given me. As soon as everything arrives and I can get the new shooter put together and some ammo loaded I will put it into practice.

PS I have some of the Barnes 110 grain factory loads coming too. Thanks for that bit of data as well.
 
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Originally Posted By: moonshine44Originally Posted By: Plant.One

almost nobody will recommend reloaded ammo for home defense - a defense lawyer can and will use that against you in court, and can (falsely) claim you're doctoring up special loads to be extra lethal or some nonsense.


hth

Thanks for the info. I wholeheartedly agree on the factory loads for defense thing. All of my carry guns are loaded with factory ammo as would this one be for “bump in the night” duty.

I’ll probably get a sample pack of the cast 130’s and play with them before I throw the whole dog into that hunt.

Thanks again!

Anybody else?

I agree 100% with the recommendation of using factory loads but be aware that this does not always protect you from judges and prosecuters who hate guns. The link below is a friend of mine that went through a nightmare - 3 years in prison before he was eventually released and cleared of all charges in a self defense case. Oh and also he was a Gunsite instructor at the time. This story was featured on NBC Dateline and they talked about how the prosecution focused on the factory ammo and how it was designed to kill. So this shows how even using factory ammo can be used against you.

https://www.law.umich.edu/special/exoneration/Pages/casedetail.aspx?caseid=4266

 
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Originally Posted By: coyotezapperI'm using Lil Gun and CFE Black in a 10.3" SBR shooting 125 TMK's with no complaints.

Thanks!
 
sadly - overzealous judges, etc are something any of us who consider a firearm for self defense for have to consider. and probably the one thing the least outside of our control.

my consideration was as much for the civil case in a self defense shooting as much as it was the criminal defense case.

that being any custom tailored "extra lethal" handloads would then give them the 'pre-meditated' angle to throw at you... saying that you doctored up those rounds specifically to go out and kill with, not simply defend yourself, etc.


yes its a completely irrelevant point - but when you're dealing with the uneducated masses in the form of a jury, they probably wont realize the difference or that they're having smoke blown up their collective rectums. giving your lawyer the ability to show a box clearly labeled as "defensive ammo" helps mitigate any attempt of that claim. ie: stuff like hornady critical defense, federal personal defense, magtech first defense, winchester PDX1 defender, winchester silver tip "personal protection", speer gold dot 'personal protection', etc.

now sadly, you're not going to find much of that type of package marketing in any rifle load - hornady does offer some rifle loads in its critical defense line, but none in the 300 blk , yet - but you still have the fallback of a factory standard load to go with. the barnes 110gr blacktip is a PERFECT example of this as its ammunition - and probably as important, a bullet - engineered specifically for the 300blk caliber.
 
Originally Posted By: Plant.Onesadly - overzealous judges, etc are something any of us who consider a firearm for self defense for have to consider. and probably the one thing the least outside of our control.

my consideration was as much for the civil case in a self defense shooting as much as it was the criminal defense case.

that being any custom tailored "extra lethal" handloads would then give them the 'pre-meditated' angle to throw at you... saying that you doctored up those rounds specifically to go out and kill with, not simply defend yourself, etc.


yes its a completely irrelevant point - but when you're dealing with the uneducated masses in the form of a jury, they probably wont realize the difference or that they're having smoke blown up their collective rectums. giving your lawyer the ability to show a box clearly labeled as "defensive ammo" helps mitigate any attempt of that claim. ie: stuff like hornady critical defense, federal personal defense, magtech first defense, winchester PDX1 defender, winchester silver tip "personal protection", speer gold dot 'personal protection', etc


Too much emotion and not enough intellect...
 
Back to the original question, now that I’ve hijacked my own thread: I loaded up some shells using Nosler’s “accuracy load” data for the 110 grain Varmageddon bullet. That load is 17 grains of H110, and it’s a pussycat to shoot. I haven’t had time to put it on paper yet but it’s a really nice handling load and pops the brass out at exactly the 3 o’clock position.A long way out.
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I will post some more info once I have time to see how it punches paper.
 
Update-I loaded a bunch of the Nosler loads and punched some paper yesterday. Shooting off of homemade cross sticks with a cheap red dot sight and the crappy milspec trigger that came in the lower parts kit that I used to build the gun I got ten shots in an oblong group 1 1/2” long by 1 1/4” high at 25 yards. Not really stretching things but with the wobbles and the heavy trigger pull I was pretty happy. If I can call ‘em in close enough I might even put some fur on the ground with it!
 
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