Sub sonic 300 BO


Reloading's not a problem. I completely understand the expansion issue thus the question.

Not stuck on 165's, would load about anything if the experiences warranted it.

Needing to do predator work closer and closer to the populous and weighing options.
 
hornady also has the 190 subx ammo available.

since you're not stuck on the weight class, mgiht as well go heavy.

we're velocity limited so energy dump is going to be 100% related to weight - and while the selection of 200grain class bullets that are suitable for subosnic hunting use is still limited, they are available from the same manufacturers listed above (maker and lehigh) as well as a couple other options

outlaw state bullets has a a couple expanding projectils to look at too

http://outlawstatebullets.com/6.html
 
My son and I have utilized the Hornady 190 subsonics suppressed with very good results to 100 yards for the same reasons. Both from 16" carbine and 10.5"pistol. We zero at 50 and shoot to 100 because you will need to know the drop at 100 yds for the 50 yd zero because its enough to miss. Bullet performance has been devastating (not fur friendly) to 100 yds. Haven't had opportunity for anything farther though from the performance at a 100 or so I think you'd still get fair results to 150 or so if you could get the drop figured in.
Ammunitions around 1.10 a pop so not terrible but it will be nice if Hornady ever decides to offer the bullets to reloaders.
 
Thank you Troy,
Fur Friendly would be a plus. Seems most sub sonic loads with a Zero at 50 tend to drop 8-10" at 100.
Easy to deal with. Fur friendly would be a plus but more important is DRT.
 
I don't have yote experience, but the FTX Hornady bullets are great on pigs. I have used the 73gr 223 and the 190gr 300 BO. I never have a pass thru on 75# and above pigs. I would not think them fur friendly, might watch the youtube vids on Hornady FTX bullets.
 
I bought a 300 blackout upper from D-Tech specifically for coyotes over bait, hoping that with subsonic rounds I could kill more than one when there are multiples. It was a total failure.
It took considerable effort to get MOA accuracy out of subsonic rounds, it took extensive brass prep and load development.
I shot 3 coyotes one week with the blackout. I lost all 3, one was a broadside chest shot, followed that blood trail for over a mile in snow, never saw it again. Two others were body shots and both of those were gone as well. I was using 220gr sierra matchkings. I know there are other bullets out there now that are supposed to expand at subsonic velocities, but at about $1 or more per projectile I don't think its worth it. Load development could get very expensive.
And, while they are quiet, they are not quiet enough not to scare away other animals. I am selling my blackout barrel, already sold all my brass, need to sell nearly 600 220gr sierras.
 
Originally Posted By: 6724I bought a 300 blackout upper from D-Tech specifically for coyotes over bait, hoping that with subsonic rounds I could kill more than one when there are multiples. It was a total failure.
It took considerable effort to get MOA accuracy out of subsonic rounds, it took extensive brass prep and load development.
I shot 3 coyotes one week with the blackout. I lost all 3, one was a broadside chest shot, followed that blood trail for over a mile in snow, never saw it again. Two others were body shots and both of those were gone as well. I was using 220gr sierra matchkings. I know there are other bullets out there now that are supposed to expand at subsonic velocities, but at about $1 or more per projectile I don't think its worth it. Load development could get very expensive.
And, while they are quiet, they are not quiet enough not to scare away other animals. I am selling my blackout barrel, already sold all my brass, need to sell nearly 600 220gr sierras.


220 smk's are NOT expanding bullets at subsonic speeds.... those are not designated as a hunting bullet.. those are paper punchers / steel ringers in the 300 blk subsonic world.

those will go thru most stuff like the proverbial ice pick.

so unless you get a perfect vital shot, or a direct CNS hit... you're not very likely to get a kill with them, as your results show.

understanding - or a lack of - what a bullet is designed to do when metal meets meat can be very humbling.

as you noted, to get expansion at subsonic velocity you need to buy purpose engineered projectiles, none of which are cheap. however hornady sells the new 190gr sub-x loaded ammo for about the price of most of the premium projectiles as a component, on a per each cost.


that said please dont blame the caliber for poor choices in projectile selection for the application you were attempting to use them for.
 
Originally Posted By: Plant.OneOriginally Posted By: 6724I bought a 300 blackout upper from D-Tech specifically for coyotes over bait, hoping that with subsonic rounds I could kill more than one when there are multiples. It was a total failure.
It took considerable effort to get MOA accuracy out of subsonic rounds, it took extensive brass prep and load development.
I shot 3 coyotes one week with the blackout. I lost all 3, one was a broadside chest shot, followed that blood trail for over a mile in snow, never saw it again. Two others were body shots and both of those were gone as well. I was using 220gr sierra matchkings. I know there are other bullets out there now that are supposed to expand at subsonic velocities, but at about $1 or more per projectile I don't think its worth it. Load development could get very expensive.
And, while they are quiet, they are not quiet enough not to scare away other animals. I am selling my blackout barrel, already sold all my brass, need to sell nearly 600 220gr sierras.


220 smk's are NOT expanding bullets at subsonic speeds.... those are not designated as a hunting bullet.. those are paper punchers / steel ringers in the 300 blk subsonic world.

those will go thru most stuff like the proverbial ice pick.

so unless you get a perfect vital shot, or a direct CNS hit... you're not very likely to get a kill with them, as your results show.

understanding - or a lack of - what a bullet is designed to do when metal meets meat can be very humbling.

as you noted, to get expansion at subsonic velocity you need to buy purpose engineered projectiles, none of which are cheap. however hornady sells the new 190gr sub-x loaded ammo for about the price of most of the premium projectiles as a component, on a per each cost.


that said please dont blame the caliber for poor choices in projectile selection for the application you were attempting to use them for.

There was no blame directed. It was a statement that with readily available projectiles that are typically used at subsonic velocities, it is a waste of time.
From my experience, finding a truly accurate load in the blackout that is subsonic is not an easy task. I highly doubt factory ammo will produce a MOA result or even close. When I struggled to find an accurate load, I scoured the internet including this forum. I could not find examples of people getting truly good accuracy from subsonic blackout rounds. The reality was then, that most people were lucky to get 1.5 minutes with reality being more like 2 to 2.5 minutes. With a purpose built projectile that has good terminal performance that costs a buck to buck and a half per piece, I suspect that load development could run into the hundreds of dollars. I also wonder if the expanding projectiles are even capable of good accuracy.
It was my desire to save someone else, from the expense of putting together a blackout for coyotes, some money. There are better options.
 
im sorry if i misunderstood the intent of your post, but calling it a "total failure" and that it took "considerable effort" to achieve said failure sounded like blame to me. lets call it lost in t translation over the interwebs
smile.gif


i get that subs and accuracy arent normally considered a standard pair.. but its not impossible, nor improbable.

some guns take more work to get there than others, but its very probably with the caliber without a TON of work.

here's a few links that may help you and others working in the blackout world, especially on the subsonic side of things. while obviously this data will need to be refined for your peticular firearm - it can save you a loot of trouble by weeding out some common info on what does and does not work generally within the blackout world.

http://www.300blktalk.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=141&t=81567

http://www.300blktalk.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=145&t=87186

http://www.300blktalk.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=145&t=97188

the folks who own maker bullets worked with a few of the guys over there who did some incredible work with their projetiles during saaid testing. this whole testing and dev thread included a redesign of the bullet to correct some of its initial flaws. this is worth a read re: sub hunting loads.
http://www.300blktalk.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=141&t=97863



a few summers ago we also had a 200yd subsonic challenge...

that was a real eye opener for many of us - myself included - most of which had never considered trying to launch subs accurately at those distances. Now this really doesnt apply to hunting because of the projo choices used by most, but it shows that accuracy CAN be had readily with subs, even beyond what are considered conventional distances

i'll post the link to pg4 where the results start to come in. but feel free to start back and look at the origins of the thread.

http://www.300blktalk.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=128&t=98191&start=30

my entry is out on page 27, and i only managed to get 3 on the 3x5 card at 200 yds... but that was also ammo that i did no special load prep with.. these were simply stainless washed, FL sized, trimmed to book length with a standard chamfer and debur and primed on press. in fact those came out of a batch of ~600 that i loaded on my LNL AP using the hornady powder thrower as the powder dispenser. i did however select 10 rounds that had matching headstamp out of that lot, but otherwise there was nothing unique done to them other than that one selection option.

208 amax
2.250" oal
LC brass
cci 400
10.6gr do.63

1:7 CMMG heavy taper stainless, form-1 can, 4-12x40 diamondback for the optic, timney trigger.

shot with my magnetospeed logging data from bags. this is a ~MOA load at 100, but as you can see - that ES of 52 really kills you at the kind of distances in the challenge and subsonic speeds.
chrono%20data_zpsr0sgt2ch.jpg

20160717_153746_zps5yeafpcq.jpg


The RSO's got a real kick out of me taking a target down to 200 yds to shoot subs at lol

i suspect i could find tune that load quite a bit just by hand throwing powder for it, but i figured i'd give it a whirl with what i had on hand just for giggles.

fun day!
 
Originally Posted By: 6724Originally Posted By: Plant.OneOriginally Posted By: 6724I bought a 300 blackout upper from D-Tech specifically for coyotes over bait, hoping that with subsonic rounds I could kill more than one when there are multiples. It was a total failure.
It took considerable effort to get MOA accuracy out of subsonic rounds, it took extensive brass prep and load development.
I shot 3 coyotes one week with the blackout. I lost all 3, one was a broadside chest shot, followed that blood trail for over a mile in snow, never saw it again. Two others were body shots and both of those were gone as well. I was using 220gr sierra matchkings. I know there are other bullets out there now that are supposed to expand at subsonic velocities, but at about $1 or more per projectile I don't think its worth it. Load development could get very expensive.
And, while they are quiet, they are not quiet enough not to scare away other animals. I am selling my blackout barrel, already sold all my brass, need to sell nearly 600 220gr sierras.


220 smk's are NOT expanding bullets at subsonic speeds.... those are not designated as a hunting bullet.. those are paper punchers / steel ringers in the 300 blk subsonic world.

those will go thru most stuff like the proverbial ice pick.

so unless you get a perfect vital shot, or a direct CNS hit... you're not very likely to get a kill with them, as your results show.

understanding - or a lack of - what a bullet is designed to do when metal meets meat can be very humbling.

as you noted, to get expansion at subsonic velocity you need to buy purpose engineered projectiles, none of which are cheap. however hornady sells the new 190gr sub-x loaded ammo for about the price of most of the premium projectiles as a component, on a per each cost.


that said please dont blame the caliber for poor choices in projectile selection for the application you were attempting to use them for.

There was no blame directed. It was a statement that with readily available projectiles that are typically used at subsonic velocities, it is a waste of time.
From my experience, finding a truly accurate load in the blackout that is subsonic is not an easy task. I highly doubt factory ammo will produce a MOA result or even close. When I struggled to find an accurate load, I scoured the internet including this forum. I could not find examples of people getting truly good accuracy from subsonic blackout rounds. The reality was then, that most people were lucky to get 1.5 minutes with reality being more like 2 to 2.5 minutes. With a purpose built projectile that has good terminal performance that costs a buck to buck and a half per piece, I suspect that load development could run into the hundreds of dollars. I also wonder if the expanding projectiles are even capable of good accuracy.
It was my desire to save someone else, from the expense of putting together a blackout for coyotes, some money. There are better options.



I appreciate the sharing of the information both directions. Really no better proof than in the fur.

Thanks again for sharing guys!!!
 
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