Got a barrel nut issue and need some input or suggestions

obaro

New member
I picked up a used upper recently and have just got around to working up loads and sighting it in. It's only supposed to have been fired a few times by the original owner/builder, and I have put 12 rounds through it now. Anyway, when I picked it up today to go and shoot, I noticed that the hand guard has a little rotational play. It has one of those epoxied on carbon fiber handguards attached to the barrel nut, so to take the nut off I would have to either cut it off, or figure a way to get under it to remove the gas block and tube. The handguard/barrel nut rotates only as far as the gas tube allows. I haven't got very far on load development yet, just got it on paper this afternoon.
All that being said, is it really an issue with that small amount of play with the barrel nut? The barrel itself doesn't seem to have any wiggle, so I am thinking I may be okay. However, I don't want to spend any more time or components working on loads if this is an issue that needs addressed to optimize accuracy. What are some of you AR guys thoughts and experiences on this issue? Thanks in advance for your input.
 
I don't know beans about AR's but if the barrel nut is loose, sooner or later and probably sooner, the barrel will become loose. I've also never seen a hand guard that epoxied to the barrel nut. That makes it pretty hard to take apart.
 
Originally Posted By: SlickerThanSnotbarrel nut needs to be tight. if it is noticeably loose it is to loose.

There is your answer. It should not be loose at all.
 
It needs to be tight as stated. Minimum of 35 ft/lb and a max of 80. Get it to 35 ft/lb and then set the wrench to 80 and crank til the tube lines up and it doesn't break over 80 ft/lb.
 
So the tube is covering the gas block, and the cf tube is epoxied on. Ouch. You're going to have to make the ff tube shorter,or drill holes at the right places to loosen the gas block and slide it off. I would take a large tubing cutter and carefully cut the tube right behind the gas block, take the gas block off then try to tighten the ff tube to the next barrel nut hole with a strap wrench.
 
Yeah, didn’t have any idea what I was getting into with the CF hand guard. It being epoxied is a game changer. My intent when I bought it was to take it apart and put it on a lefty upper, when I realized the situation I decided to just use it as is then this loose nut deal. I am planning to go ahead and break it down and put it back together on the lefty upper. Gonna cut the hand guard right at end of the nut. Will be sacrificing the nut, maybe even the hand guard , but it will get put back together right with a different hand guard. Hopefully it all works out and it shoots good.I will be asking a few more questions on future purchases for sure.
 
so i'm going to point out the 500 lb gorilla in the room...

whoever you bought that upper from is an idiot. plain and simple.

the fact that they epoxy'ed the handguard on before confirming the barrel nut was properly torqued... i mean wow.

and thats simply based on the fact that i can envision a world where some brilliant marketing team would convince an ar-gunplumber that gluing your handguard in place is a logical thing to do. at one of the hotter points of a firearm. with an adhesive that starts to break down somewhere around 600*F, give or take....

i hope there was at least some attempt at logic like "well at least the gas tube will prevent the barrel nut from spinning off and keep the barrel from falling out" *derp*







in all seriousness....

to start, throw that hot mess of a handguard/barrel nut out and start fresh, and you're right on track about rebuilding it - if for no other reason than to confirm that the rest of the parts he installed are properly assembled.

its just not worth giving it a good solid once over to make sure something else isnt going to come back to bite you in the rear at some point in the future.





i hope you at least got a really good deal on that upper.

here's to hoping that the barrel turns out to be a shooter.
thumbup.gif

 
This is one of two companies CF FF handguards that I love:
wm_6552039.jpg


Please post a pic of your loosey goosey so that we can see the actual problem.
 
Are you sure it is actually the barrel nut that is "moving" with the CF forearm? If I remember, there was a manufacturer that had a system where the barrel nut is screwed on and torqued down and then a "sleeve" threaded onto the barrel nut and then the CF forearm was attached(epoxied) to the sleeve. The sleeve may be what you are seeing moving with the CF forearm.
 
Yes, the guard was stuck to the nut; it was a Clark Custom hand guard. I cut it off just past the end of the nut. (If I feel like it I can get another nut and reuse it) It was epoxied to the nut, and the gas tube was what was keeping it from spinning( kinda obvious). I pulled the gas block and tube off and the nut was basically free spinning, easily spun off with just fingertip pressure. Now, the barrel was seated into the receiver pretty tight. At first I thought I may have to apply some heat to get it out, but a couple taps with a rubber mallet and it reluctantly came out. I can reuse everything but the nut it looks like, but I don’t have any intentions of going with another hand guard that requires an epoxy stuck barrel nut. I dropped the barrel off for threading last night and as soon as that’s done will put it on the lefty upper and try to see what I really have. Thanks for the input from everyone.
 
There are barrel nuts then there are barrel nuts, and not all are created equally. We tested and evaluated a lot of hand guards to find ones that did not allow or cause the barrel nuts to loosen up.

As some of the guys pointed out, just because folks CAN put their own rifles together, it doesn't mean they should. I have been trained by two different manufacturers as an armorer and there are key checkpoints that have to be verified before a rifle can go to test and be shipped.

Carbon fiber hand guards seem like a good concept, until you see things like this. High quality carbon fiber hand guards tend to be quite expensive. Low end carbon fiber hand guards are disastrous jokes and don't save you much in weight versus a good quality aluminum hand guard.
 
At one time, there were quite a few manufactures that used some form of epoxy attached CF hand guards, DPMS being one:

DPMS Carbon FF Hand Guard

Quote:This DPMS Carbon Fiber AR-15 Handguard free floats the barrel for increased accuracy potential. The handguard's carbon fiber construction makes it 40 percent lighter than a standard aluminum tube, as well as much more efficient at dissipating the heat radiating from a hot barrel. Despite its light weight, this handguard is rigid and durable enough for use in action shooting competitions such as 3-Gun. Installation is semi-permanent since the handguard must be secured to its proprietary barrel nut with the included epoxy cement.

 
I put the Lyman CF hand guard on my daughters AR, it uses more of a traditional clamp on type system. We will see how it goes, but so far it seems to be alright. If there is a problem or glitch in the system I will let you all know. It is easy to install and take apart; I can tell you that already.
 
I've used a few DPMS cf tubes and they seem solid, but they are not the handiest to re-use, though I have done it.
 
I won't touch any epoxied on handguard. Last year bought an upper from a reputable manufacturer you would all recognize not realizing the Midwest Industries handguard used was epoxied on. Call me ignorant I was unaware people would trust such a crazy concept. The intended use was a scout rifle design, so I actually USED the provided rails on the handguard to mount the scope forward...imagine actually USING provided rail surface.

At first it was good, then I started having accuracy issues. At about round 80 my buddy was shooting it and the scoped handguard came off in his hand.

This was a 458 SOCOM, in retrospect it's crazy said manufacturer provides built uppers using such a handguard in this chambering but they do. I'll credit them that they made it right in that I sent them back the handguard and barrel nut and they discounted the price. I re-installed the barrel with a properly designed ALG with the handguard screwed to the barrel nut and all is good.
 
Back
Top