Brass ejection pattern with side charging upper..... no deflector

varminter .223

Active member
I'm curious if you guys have any experience with brass ejecion patterns in a side charge upper with no deflector. Is forward still over gassed and backwards undergassed?
 
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Not if you don't have a shell deflector. It's the shell deflector that bounces them forward. A normal pattern is about 4-5 o'clock out about 5-10 feet, with an undergassed gun at about 3 o'clock and dropping almost straight down or within a couple of feet.
 
Yes I understand the deflector is why they end up where they do but without having one on the side charg Im assuming they'll be in a different place when properly gassed. I'm just curious if anybody's tuned on that. My friend has a 6 x 6. 8 that is throwing them at 10 oclock and he is left-handed. They are fairly hot loads on carbine buffer and spring and he says it isn't locking back on an empty mag. The gas block is non-adjustable as well. I hope to get my hands on the rifle tonight to see what I can figure out.
 
Yes I understand the deflector is why they end up where they do but without having one on the side charge Im assuming they'll be in a different place when properly gassed. I'm just curious if anybody's tuned on that. My friend has a 6 x 6. 8 that is throwing them at 10 oclock and he is left-handed. They are fairly hot loads on carbine buffer and spring and he says it isn't locking back on an empty mag. The gas block is non-adjustable as well. I hope to get my hands on the rifle tonight to see what I can figure out.
 
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a moving charging handle makes running a brass catcher impossible. I think it also means weakening the upper because more metal has to be taken out. what reason are you wanting a side charger for?
 
I have 6 sidecharging rigs and wont use anything but. So much easier to operate especially in the dark. I got to thinking where all mine discharge at and I think it's pretty much the same as far as over gas and under gassed if I recall. I'm just trying to diagnose issues for a buddy over the phone while at work.
 
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Originally Posted By: steve garretta moving charging handle makes running a brass catcher impossible. I think it also means weakening the upper because more metal has to be taken out. what reason are you wanting a side charger for?
I use a brass catcher with my side charge...no problem at all. The charging handle is not at all a problem. Caldwell makes a nice compact set up. Holds plenty of brass...at least 100 empties. Use it exclusively in the pdog fields. A piece mounts on the rail and the bag slides on and off of that piece...slicker than snot!
 
Originally Posted By: varminter .223Yes I understand the deflector is why they end up where they do but without having one on the side charg Im assuming they'll be in a different place when properly gassed. I'm just curious if anybody's tuned on that. My friend has a 6 x 6. 8 that is throwing them at 10 oclock and he is left-handed. They are fairly hot loads on carbine buffer and spring and he says it isn't locking back on an empty mag. The gas block is non-adjustable as well. I hope to get my hands on the rifle tonight to see what I can figure out.

Yeah, it can be tough to diagnose without getting hands on at the range. If they are throwing at 10 o'clock AND it's not locking back, it might be overrunning and bouncing the buffer off the end of the buffer tube. Sounds like the BCG is probably coming forward right as it is losing the shell and slapping them forward. That can cause damage if he doesn't tone down the loads or throw an adjustable block on it. He might shear off his bolt catch for starters.

His pattern should be the exact opposite of a normal side charger. Normal pressure at about 7-8 o'clock at about 5-10 feet, undergassed at the 9 o'clock, but falling almost straight down.

Cell phones work pretty good these days shooting some higher speed footage to help with diagnostics.
 
Fwiw I switched to a lighter 50 grain load in my 22 inch rifle plus 2 gas 22 Nosler. I had it on an A2 stock buffer and spring setup. It worked fine on the 55 grain load but when I drop to the 50s it would short stroke. I took two weights out of the rifle buffer and replaced it with the aluminum spacer out of another rifle buffer that was the exact same length. It seemed to cycle a little better and would on the lead sled but wouldn't always off of the tripod because I'm assuming I'm not pulling the gun in tight against my shoulder. I put a Magpul Str stock, carbine spring and buffer on it and it runs fine now. It was ejecting the brass up at 1 oclock for me (I think) as a right-handed shooter and it is now in that 4 to 5ish oclock position and locking back on an empty mag. I'm pretty sure that tells me that it's gas properly and the brass will deposit in the same spot as with a deflector. I have a couple 6 x 6.8s and they all function properly on an A2 stock buffer and spring setup. I need to put one of my lowers on his upper and see where it ejects with that heavy or set up.
 
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Sounds like some good diagnostics and troubleshooting there. We have to go through the same things when we start building with new calibers or different configurations, like short barreled RLG systems.

It can be a pain. I think that you are onto something with the rifle firing from a sled but not from the shoulder/tripod. We saw the same thing, but we diagnosed it down to an extractor spring issue and not so much a gas issue. We found that some bolt manufacturers were using substandard springs and when we upgraded our problems went away. We used a camera to see that the extractor was losing the case early on extraction/ejection and it simulated a short stroke issue by stove piping.

But being as how you got it to lock back on an empty mag, which is always a good diagnostic test, sounds like you had some low gas pressure issues. This is surprising since the lighter loads are usually packed with a higher powder charge. But it is certainly a good possibility.

Sometimes the longer buffer systems smooth out the timing issues. The carbine buffer systems run pretty fast in their dwell cycle. Sometimes they can run too fast.

Thanks for the update.
 
The 50 grain 22 Nosler load is pretty much a max load of h4895 On the A2 setup there is no swiping at all.
The max load of cfe223 with 55 grainers had some swiping and cycled fine with the A2 setup. Now that I've gone to the carbine set up with the 50s it has the swiping that the 55s had with the rifle buffer and spring.
 
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