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#3190757 - 02/04/19 03:56 PM Re: Any reason not to use 50gr vmax? [Re: Davidsavoie]
SlickerThanSnot Offline
Die Hard Member with a vengeance

Registered: 01/31/14
Posts: 4951
Loc: stuck in a fence
Originally Posted By: Davidsavoie
Then again i've seen a number of people say the .17hmr is worthless outside of plinking, and until this year (and for the past 12) that was my only small game firearm and it's done wonderfully on raccoon, skunk, squirrel, fox, rabbits etc. The right bullet and a good shot matter, and maybe more people are taking marginal shots than I like to think.


seen many guys say a 17hmr is worthless for coyotes, but not many at all say it is worthless for the other critters you mention?

but if you read enough you will come across guys that say it is the cats meow for coyotes too.

free speech. it is a wonderful thing (sometimes). lol
_________________________
if you shoot a 223 at coyotes you may father children with 6 toes. are you willing to chance that?

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#3190759 - 02/04/19 04:01 PM Re: Any reason not to use 50gr vmax? [Re: SlickerThanSnot]
Davidsavoie Offline
New Member

Registered: 12/17/18
Posts: 12
Loc: Ohio, USA
I dont think i'd ever try and use the .17 on a coyote outside of maybe a trapped one. But i've had plenty say they've shot raccoon etc with them and have them run off (not on here, but in person etc).

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#3190764 - 02/04/19 04:26 PM Re: Any reason not to use 50gr vmax? [Re: Davidsavoie]
Tracker0721 Offline
Seasoned Member

Registered: 06/17/18
Posts: 318
Loc: Republic WA
So my buddy shoots the 50 grain vmax and loves it in his 22-250. Has quite a pile to show that it does the job. He has a bait pile of sorts(butcher) and all his shots are right at 100 yards. I use the 50 nosler bt in my 22-250. Yet to draw blood with that. I use the 40 nosler bt in my .222 and that was a tiny hole in, no exit and jello inside.

I’ve also dropped 3 coyotes in their tracks with a .17 hmr between 100-150 yards and hit 2 other in the chest at about 100 that ran a good ways before piling up. Just to throw that out there. Haha

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#3190819 - 02/04/19 10:03 PM Re: Any reason not to use 50gr vmax? [Re: Davidsavoie]
gord mccoo Offline
Seasoned Member

Registered: 07/15/15
Posts: 202
Loc: ontario canada
Hi Davidsavoie.

I have used 50g vmax in my 22-250 for at least 10 years,with good results. Mind you I probably have not shot the high numbers as some, do to location. But they get the job done and are very accurate out of my rifle.Definitely agree with trimble s6

Hope this is helpful

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#3190842 - 02/05/19 12:16 AM Re: Any reason not to use 50gr vmax? [Re: ackleyman]
DiRTY DOG Online
Die Hard Member III

Registered: 08/27/09
Posts: 2535
Loc: West
Originally Posted By: ackleyman
I like to use a bullet that works well in my bolt guns at 3050 fps to 4100.

55g nosler ballistic tip
55g Sierra of sorts, exclude the Sierra Blitz king

In a 223, the old 55g Winchester SP(26.5g of Win 748) with the cannalure kills like a bolt of lightening(3050 fps), and the coyote looks like you sucked the wind out of him, but a loud plop when the bullet hits. Bump the speed up with the 55g Win to a 22/250 level and it just makes pelts look like gut rugs.

My coyote rifle is also a crow rifle. In my 700's, I shoot a hot load of benchmark with a 55g Nosler at 3475 fps that shoots very, very tiny groups...12 Twist, short throat. When I want to blow up a coyote, I switch out to a 55g Sierra lead tip blitz at the same speed...freeking UNBELIEVABLE!!!

People are going to like what they like. 40g Nosler ballistic tips are good at 3800 in a bolt gun 223, but at 200, they are blowing like a kite in the wind. Even the 53g V max at 3475 is wicked on coyotes and crows...way on out there.

Remember, you never see pictures of coyotes that got away, and guys never talk about them.

I have a 223 AI, rem 700, where I shoot a hot load of N133 with 40g Noslers at 4130 fps and shoots bug holes, this is a 300 yard rifle on p. dogs, MAX!

When walking out making stands, average shots will be no further than 80-125 yards where just about anything will work as long as they are shot in the lungs. The only bullet I saw fail was a 60g sierra(3500) that shot holes through coyotes without even a twitch on their part.

The apparent lack of penetration and temporary wound cavity created by the 40's become all too apparent when you hit a coyote 3" behind the diaphram, and this type of shot is where a 55g Sierra lead tip blitz pays off in spades(3350-3500 fps is the envelope for massive coyote destruction with instant killing ability). Shooting coyotes up the azz when they are running away is another example of how heavier bullets pay off. Quartering frontal shots where they are running into you, bullet hits the shoulder and that is the end of penetration with many bullets, not just 40g.

If you like light and fast, I would urge you to try the old school 45g sierra spt that was made for the 220 Swift, it's a killer from any angle. At least use a bullet that will shoot a hole through a coyotes head at 200 yards.

Your hobby, do it your way.



Originally Posted By: ackleyman
40g Nosler ballistic tips are good at 3800 in a bolt gun 223, but at 200, they are blowing like a kite in the wind.
Fake news. 40g NBT drift 4.4" at 200 yards. Compare that to your chosen crow/coyote load 55g NBT which drifts 4.0".

So an extra 0.4" (1%) qualifies it as drifting like a kite in the wind? Come on now.

The 40g NBT actually drifts less than the Sierra 55g Blitz you recommend. And the 55g Winchester you recommend is absolutely terrible compared to everything else.

The 40gr NBT holds it's own just fine in the wind at 200 yards compared to all those other bullets you listed. They are so similar, you would never notice the difference between any of them while in the field calling coyotes.

200 yards is a pretty long shot for most of us coyote callers, it's fair to say that the vast majority of called coyotes are taken at far less than that where drift and BC are completely irrelevent.

The numbers don't lie, but some folks are going to bash the 40gr anyways.

_________________________
Aim small miss small.

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#3190849 - 02/05/19 01:02 AM Re: Any reason not to use 50gr vmax? [Re: Davidsavoie]
ackleyman Online
PM senior

Registered: 01/08/03
Posts: 8325
Loc: Hickville
Dirty Dog, that is one heck of a great chart, thanks for taking the time to put all that together!

What is missing from the chart is the fun in trying to shoot a number of coyotes with all of them. A lot of productive predator callers have contributed to the thread. So, you could load up a box of each of those loads above, shoot the entire box before you go to another bullet. You will learn volumes and have a lot of fun. Of course, you can quit shooting a bullet when ever you want if you see unwanted traits.

I used to do this kind of thing when we went hunting in Mexico 22/250, 243, and 6 Rem. I have seen multiple bullets of the same weight zip through a coyote and never knock him down, 243 with a brand of 75's. ON the 75g speer hp, they blew up on shoulders and hip joints. ON another, I shot three coyotes in a row with a custom 22/250 14T, shooting the 60g Sierra hp at 3550 fps, with the coyotes never flinching at the shot. ON another trip down in Mexico, I had 7 coyotes on the ground at one time, more coming in as I noticed stuffing my mag full. Then some of the "dead" coyotes started getting up, trying to hobble off, they took another shot, 52 speer large hp doing 3500, tremendous surface explosions... Life happens.

I think that it is a terrible thing that Poly tips of some kind has to be someones pick, that is just messed up. It's like people through their brains away!

The discussion on the SPEED in the 223 with 40's goes on to include several other levels. The 45g Sierra spt at 3650 out of the 223 is a major killer from any angle. In the 223 AI, my favorite colober the heck out of coyote load with with a 55g Lead tip blitz at 3600-3650 in a smooth custom barrel, blows up very dead coyotes. 40g Noslers loaded at 4150 fps with N133 in the 223 AI, does a great job. The 22/250 AI, 12T shooting the 55g at 4050-4100 into tiny bug holes. The next step the speed ball ladder is the 244 AI/6/284 Winchester that shoot the 70g at 4100 and the 60g Sierra's at 4200-4400. I got boared with that, put together a 29.5", 6.5 Rem Mag shooting the 85's at 3900 with blistering accuracy.I saw a coyote flip upside down with all 4 feet up in the air. Then the 270 with 90g Sierra's at 3500 with IMR 3031, the grand daddy coyote massacring load.

The need for speed! For 200 and under yard shooting on coyotes, BC is meaningless. Focus on a good killing bullet.

Best wishes!

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#3190887 - 02/05/19 09:51 AM Re: Any reason not to use 50gr vmax? [Re: Davidsavoie]
WyoBull Online
Seasoned Member

Registered: 08/25/11
Posts: 270
Loc: Wyoming
I certainly do my fair share of reading through posts looking to see what bullets works best for people hunting coyotes. I think the number one criteria for fur saving coyote hunters is a bullet that does not exit, or if it does, the hole left is small enough to not require sewing.
Does that bullet exist? Is there a Holy Grail bullet out there? Well, if you read through the posts, many, many bullets have been claimed to not exit, coyotes DRT etc..
What works for me does not work for someone else and why is that? Perfect example is that I worked up a load using the Barnes 36 gr Varmint Grenade in my 220 Swift. My experience has been that if I hit center mass, I don't get exits on coyotes. I worked up a load for a friend using the same bullet but in his 22-250 and he quit using them because of big exit holes and having to spend too much time sewing them up. Go figure.
So now I am on a mission to put something together for him in that rifle and caliber that will work for him. Part of the fun is trying to find this Holy Grail bullet/powder/caliber combination but that is also part of the frustration as well. The mission continues and I am not going to try the Barnes 52 gr Matchburner in his 22-250.
For me, I have found the Holy Grail in my 220 Swift and that combination is a Sierra 55 gr HPBT (#1390) using IMR 4064 and Federal primers. It works so well in my rifle that I matched a CDS dial to this load. No doubt, the Holy Grail for me will leave many shaking their heads that this combination will never work for them but I don't care because it does for me.
I will continue to read the widely varied opinions here because I enjoy the topic but know just because its on the interest does not mean its so.
_________________________
)))))>>> Old cowboy wisdom... "Lead in the air... maybe. No lead in the air... no maybe" <<<((((((

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#3191744 - 02/09/19 03:20 PM Re: Any reason not to use 50gr vmax? [Re: Davidsavoie]
Bowhunt Offline
Die Hard Member

Registered: 11/28/15
Posts: 743
Loc: Illinois
A lot of people have great results with them. I wouldn't be afraid to use them but I much prefer a sturdier bullet like the 50 grain Nosler ballistic tips for coyotes.
_________________________
If the women don't find you handsome.....they should at least find you handy!

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#3191748 - 02/09/19 03:45 PM Re: Any reason not to use 50gr vmax? [Re: DiRTY DOG]
emptymag Online
Seasoned Member

Registered: 12/12/14
Posts: 262
Loc: Minnesota
Originally Posted By: DiRTY DOG
200 yards is a pretty long shot for most of us coyote callers, it's fair to say that the vast majority of called coyotes are taken at far less than that where drift and BC are completely irrelevent.


I spent way too much time(days) going through posts in the Great White North forum documenting how far a few of the guys that post alot in there shoot coyotes at. I made it into a spread sheet, average distance was around 157 yards if I remember right. Thats guys out on the prairie.

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#3191816 - 02/09/19 08:41 PM Re: Any reason not to use 50gr vmax? [Re: Davidsavoie]
emptymag Online
Seasoned Member

Registered: 12/12/14
Posts: 262
Loc: Minnesota
I found these distances in the great white north forum mostly from member snowshoes. 141 yards average.

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#3191971 - 02/10/19 03:40 PM Re: Any reason not to use 50gr vmax? [Re: Davidsavoie]
ackleyman Online
PM senior

Registered: 01/08/03
Posts: 8325
Loc: Hickville
Dirtydog, I can shoot crows out off the front or back porch. The crows are scratching through the cow and horse manure every morning.

I found the 40g V max, 40g ballistic tip, 40g Sierra blitz king(most explosive)and the 50g blitz king, to be the most explosive bullets for 22 caliber. 50g v max was 4th.

A guy really needs to shoot what he has confidence in.

One guy hates for a bullet to shoot a hole through a coyote, while the other likes to see ribs and hair blown for 10 yards out the off side.

I really like the 40g in a short leade chamber for ground squirrels.

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#3192013 - 02/10/19 07:25 PM Re: Any reason not to use 50gr vmax? [Re: Davidsavoie]
obaro Online
Die Hard Member II

Registered: 09/14/04
Posts: 1426
Loc: Monument kansas
I have not used the 50's in a 22-250, but have shot quite a few of them in the Fiocchi loaded 223's. They shot very well from the gun I was using them in shooting prairie dogs, so I gave them a try on coyotes this past fall. I got several killed with them, had one that I for sure felt should not have got up after having been shot facing dead on at about 60 yards, (got an interesting photo of all that I found of that one), and after skinning a couple I decided to go to a stouter bullet for coyotes. My remaining loads of 50 vmax are gonna go back to killing prairie dogs this summer. What I found when I skinned a handful shot with the vmax was that I wasn't getting enough penetration. Sometimes the hide would be torn up on entry, too, but what got me was the craters just under the hide with bullet fragments in them. It looked to me like the bullets were coming apart before they got into the chest cavity. Yeah, they worked, but for me there are better options for coyotes. Don't think I had any pass throughs with them. Was running them out of a Stag 16" 9 twist AR.
They do shoot sub MOA for me though, and are bad news on littler critters.

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#3193044 - 02/15/19 03:55 PM Re: Any reason not to use 50gr vmax? [Re: Davidsavoie]
Bowhunt Offline
Die Hard Member

Registered: 11/28/15
Posts: 743
Loc: Illinois
Originally Posted By: Davidsavoie
I dont think i'd ever try and use the .17 on a coyote outside of maybe a trapped one. But i've had plenty say they've shot raccoon etc with them and have them run off (not on here, but in person etc).


That's because coons are tuff SOBs! Lol
_________________________
If the women don't find you handsome.....they should at least find you handy!

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#3193634 - 02/18/19 07:19 PM Re: Any reason not to use 50gr vmax? [Re: Davidsavoie]
bmoore Offline
Seasoned Member

Registered: 12/17/16
Posts: 243
Loc: So Cal
I am a little late but I will add that 50grn Vmax out of a 22-250 will flatten coyotes. I shot 4 or 5 a couple years ago with this load. 37 grains of Varget under a 50grn Vmax, bang flops. Another member hit the nail on the head, too far back and you will gut shoot them, too far forward and you will hit the shoulder for a splash. Just put it right in their ribs, no exit.

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#3193661 - 02/18/19 08:39 PM Re: Any reason not to use 50gr vmax? [Re: bmoore]
spotstalkshoot Online
Die Hard Member II

Registered: 12/22/13
Posts: 1403
Loc: so.mn
I had an old box(pink and white from age), only problem I have had is neck shot coyote. The vmax seem to open up the neck no matter the distance. They do seem to stay in the head pretty well. Very seldom when stalking do I shoot inside 200 yards on coyote, the snow(crusts up) and terrain often dictate 200+ shots. I have been playing with some Bart's 52 gr ultras, these have been giving better penetration, without nasty exits. Will know more about them after 12-15 more coyote.

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