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#3185734 - 01/15/19 04:36 PM Two issues with CZ 17 hornet
Jay03 Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 02/27/11
Posts: 45
Loc: Oregon
I recently acquired a new old stock cz527 17 hornet. It's an older serial number. Looks like from 2013. It's proving to not live up to the accuracy claims I read so much about with these rifles. I have tried factory 20gr Vmax loads that barely group under 1.5" at 100yrds. Load workup with AA2200 hasn't been much better with Hornady 20gr Vmax and 25gr HP. Groups are sporadic. Next I'll try AA1680. So maybe I need to bed the action? Is there maybe something with older rifles I'm not aware of?

Also not a rifle issue but 17cal issue. My Oehler 35 has failed to read a single shot fired through it with my 17hornet. I have colored the tips of the bullets with black marker and still nothing. Makes load workup a little different. Other rifles in 6mm and 7mm picked up just fine on the same days. What are some things you have done to Chrono 17 bullets?

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#3185747 - 01/15/19 05:08 PM Re: Two issues with CZ 17 hornet [Re: Jay03]
B23 Offline
Die Hard Member III

Registered: 12/07/11
Posts: 2308
Loc: Pacific NW
If this is a brand new rifle and you didn't already do so, I'd give the barrel a good scrubbing. The new CZ's that I've had all had this syrupy like oil in and on them from the factory. I'm sure it's some kind of rust preventative they coat things with but when I cleaned the unfired barrels of my 527's, the patches come out black and nasty as he11 looking, so that would be the first thing I'd do.

Second, I'd crack the action screws loose and retorque them to around 35 in.lbs use a in.lb tq wrench if you can because it's easy to get them way tighter than that and I wouldn't be surprised if yours came from the factory well over 50 in.lbs.

Then go shoot it with the same factory ammo and see if that helped anything. Generally, these things will easily shoot 1 MOA at 100yds and often well under that with factory ammo.

I have two CZ 527 Varmint 17 Hornets and I know many others with the same rifle, they all seem to shoot the load of 12-12.2gr AA1680 w/20gr Vmax very well, usually into the .5-.75 range, sometimes even less.

Also, make sure everything is right with your scope and mounts as well.

I'm always a big fan of bedding the action but, typically, even the best bedding job won't make a poor shooting gun suddenly shoot well. Usually a good bedding job just makes a good shooter, shoot a little better.


Edited by B23 (01/15/19 05:12 PM)

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#3185765 - 01/15/19 05:52 PM Re: Two issues with CZ 17 hornet [Re: Jay03]
Rustydust Online
PM senior

Registered: 10/21/07
Posts: 6213
Loc: Southwest Idaho
I have a 527 .17 Hornet too and it has driven tacks from day one. It shoots both the 20 grain and 25 grain factory stuff so well that if I could afford to do so I would not even handload for it. 1/2" at 100 yards is a cinch. So I have nothing to offer more than what Bryan said. A yucky barrel would be where I would first look.

As far as your chronograph goes...sorry. Not a clue. My Competition Electronics ProChrono seems to have no issues with .17 caliber bullets. Even when fired at over 4400 fps from my .17 Remington. I even tried an Daisy BB gun once and it clocked it OK.

I hope you will keep us posted what it took to get your new sweetie shooting good. To put it mildly, I am very fond of my .17 Hornet.

Oh yeah- dittos on the 12.2 grains of AA 1680 with the 20 grain Vmax. Super accurate in my gun.
_________________________
I once asked a liberal "What is it with you people? Is it ignorance or apathy?'
He said, "Well, I don't know and I don't care.'"


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#3185929 - 01/16/19 11:32 AM Re: Two issues with CZ 17 hornet [Re: B23]
Jay03 Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 02/27/11
Posts: 45
Loc: Oregon
Yes brand new rifle, and I cleaned the barrel before I took it out to shoot. It's been out of the stock for some trigger work and the srews torqued to 30in.lbs. I'll up them to 35. I have put 140 rounds though it trying to achieve a decent load. The scope is a Leupold VX5HD 3-15x44 firedot mounted in Warne rings. I'm positive it's mounted well and all tightened down.

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#3185930 - 01/16/19 11:33 AM Re: Two issues with CZ 17 hornet [Re: Rustydust]
Jay03 Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 02/27/11
Posts: 45
Loc: Oregon
I'll have to go get some 1680 and go from there. I might also try and get ahold of the nosler 20gr or Berger 25gr to try next.

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#3185945 - 01/16/19 12:20 PM Re: Two issues with CZ 17 hornet [Re: Jay03]
Rustydust Online
PM senior

Registered: 10/21/07
Posts: 6213
Loc: Southwest Idaho
Originally Posted By: Jay03
I'll have to go get some 1680 and go from there. I might also try and get ahold of the nosler 20gr or Berger 25gr to try next.


My 527 Varmint really likes CFE BLK as well. 12.5 grains of give me around 3600 fps with a 20 grain bullet.

I have tried the 20 grain Nosler and while it shoots well I get smaller groups with the 20 grain Vmax. The 20 grain Berger shot the best of all and was using one to make my longest ground squirrel kill at 356 yards. But as luck would have it it seems that Berger is no longer making them now. Dang it. I have a few hundred rounds of them left but they will probably all be gone by early summer. Oh well. I have couple thousand other .17 caliber bullets to tide me over.

But again, hope you find the malady why your gun is not being nice to you at the moment. If you cannot get it to shoot I hope that you can at least send it back to exchange for another.


Edited by Rustydust (03/28/19 03:21 PM)
_________________________
I once asked a liberal "What is it with you people? Is it ignorance or apathy?'
He said, "Well, I don't know and I don't care.'"


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#3185972 - 01/16/19 02:12 PM Re: Two issues with CZ 17 hornet [Re: Jay03]
B23 Offline
Die Hard Member III

Registered: 12/07/11
Posts: 2308
Loc: Pacific NW
Originally Posted By: Jay03
Yes brand new rifle, and I cleaned the barrel before I took it out to shoot. It's been out of the stock for some trigger work and the srews torqued to 30in.lbs. I'll up them to 35. I have put 140 rounds though it trying to achieve a decent load. The scope is a Leupold VX5HD 3-15x44 firedot mounted in Warne rings. I'm positive it's mounted well and all tightened down.


Sounds like you've done or checked just about everything you need to and if you've already taken it apart and retorqued them to 30in.lbs it's not like going to 35 is going to change a whole lot.

Since you mentioned you've had this out of the stock, check to make sure you got the trigger guard assembly worked into place properly because sometimes they can be a little tricky to get that trigger guard piece worked into its correct spot and instead will kind of be partially in and partially out of the recess area on the bottom side of the action its supposed to sit flush against. If it's not mated up against the bottom of the action like it needs to be, when you tighten down the action screws it'll put undue stress on the action and can cause you problems. The very first time I put my first CZ 17 Hornet back together I missed getting the trigger guard/bottom metal piece properly into that recess area and didn't really even notice until I tried pushing the magazine in and it went in much more difficult than before I'd taken it apart. It's kinda difficult to see in through the mag well opening to see if it's in there like it should be, but once you are aware of how it needs to be, it makes it easier to get it right every time. Just something else to check.

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#3185986 - 01/16/19 03:13 PM Re: Two issues with CZ 17 hornet [Re: Jay03]
reb8600 Offline
Global Moderator

Registered: 10/13/04
Posts: 11053
Loc: Morgan, Utah
The accuracy of the Hornady ammo does not surprise me. It does not shoot good. If you want to try factory ammo, look at the Federal 17 Hornet. I am shooting 10 shot 1/2" groups with it in my Savage. I am shooting it to get the brass. I will not even use the Hornady brass to reload.

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#3186001 - 01/16/19 03:57 PM Re: Two issues with CZ 17 hornet [Re: reb8600]
B23 Offline
Die Hard Member III

Registered: 12/07/11
Posts: 2308
Loc: Pacific NW
Originally Posted By: reb8600
The accuracy of the Hornady ammo does not surprise me. It does not shoot good. If you want to try factory ammo, look at the Federal 17 Hornet. I am shooting 10 shot 1/2" groups with it in my Savage. I am shooting it to get the brass. I will not even use the Hornady brass to reload.


Sorry to break it to you Reb, but the Federal American Eagle 17 Hornet ammo, is Hornady ammo, and it's in Hornady brass.

When the Federal AE 17 Hornet ammo first came out, being that I'm no particular fan of Hornady brass either, I called Federal and talked to one of their Techs about Federals AE 17 Hornet ammo. He told me Federal contracts with Hornady and that Federal AE and Hornady 17 Hornet ammo is one and the same, only the bullet tip color and packaging is different.

I asked further, ok, but why do they show different velocity for the same bullet, if they are one and the same. He said, because the velocity that is stated on the Hornady labeled ammo is tested with a little longer barrel than is the Federal AE stuff and it was mostly a marketing thing.

It's kinda the same with the 17 WSM ammo, regardless of the bullet weight or what label is on the box, ALL, 17 WSM ammo is made by Winchester.

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#3186040 - 01/16/19 06:29 PM Re: Two issues with CZ 17 hornet [Re: Jay03]
SlickerThanSnot Offline
PM senior

Registered: 01/31/14
Posts: 5426
Loc: stuck in a fence
i still have not been able to find a handload that shoots as good as the hornady factory loaded 25gr hp does. which is around a 1/4". but i shoot a savage.

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#3186093 - 01/16/19 09:27 PM Re: Two issues with CZ 17 hornet [Re: B23]
reb8600 Offline
Global Moderator

Registered: 10/13/04
Posts: 11053
Loc: Morgan, Utah
Originally Posted By: B23

Sorry to break it to you Reb, but the Federal American Eagle 17 Hornet ammo, is Hornady ammo, and it's in Hornady brass.

When the Federal AE 17 Hornet ammo first came out, being that I'm no particular fan of Hornady brass either, I called Federal and talked to one of their Techs about Federals AE 17 Hornet ammo. He told me Federal contracts with Hornady and that Federal AE and Hornady 17 Hornet ammo is one and the same, only the bullet tip color and packaging is different.

I asked further, ok, but why do they show different velocity for the same bullet, if they are one and the same. He said, because the velocity that is stated on the Hornady labeled ammo is tested with a little longer barrel than is the Federal AE stuff and it was mostly a marketing thing.

It's kinda the same with the 17 WSM ammo, regardless of the bullet weight or what label is on the box, ALL, 17 WSM ammo is made by Winchester.


Then Hornady should load theirs to be better. I have problems with the Hornady ejecting that I do not have with the Federal and the Federal ammo shoots a a lot better than the Hornady. If what you say is true, then Hornady is screwing up by loading a better product for Federal. Hornady ammo just sucks in most calibers I shoot. I used to like Hornady but the last 6 months I have seen numerous problems with ammo, brass and bullets. There is a visual difference in the 17 Hornet brass labeled Hornady versus the Federal so I find it hard to believe it is the same brass. It definitely is not labeled Hornady on the brass.

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#3186129 - 01/16/19 11:26 PM Re: Two issues with CZ 17 hornet [Re: reb8600]
B23 Offline
Die Hard Member III

Registered: 12/07/11
Posts: 2308
Loc: Pacific NW
Originally Posted By: reb8600
It definitely is not labeled Hornady on the brass.


Well, Norma has made a boat load of brass for Nosler, yet you only see Nosler's name on the brass Norma makes for them. I think it's pretty common for companies to have their name put on components made by someone else.

Until Winchester got into making it, for years CCI was the only producer of 17 HMR ammo. Millions of 17 HMR rounds were made by CCI but they've had MANY different companies name/emblem stamped on the case head and packaged into other companies labels. Like I mentioned above, it's a fairly common practice.

I've only been playing with the 17 Hornet for the last few years, but like many, I've had pretty good success with Hornady factory ammo in both of my CZ 17 Hornets.

I have heard that some of the early Hornady 17 Hornet ammo wasn't so great, and not that the brass is all that great now, but I've been told the earlier stuff was much worse. Do you maybe have some of the earlier made ammo and or brass?

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#3186146 - 01/17/19 12:21 AM Re: Two issues with CZ 17 hornet [Re: Jay03]
reb8600 Offline
Global Moderator

Registered: 10/13/04
Posts: 11053
Loc: Morgan, Utah
My Hornet ammo is a few years old but I am not hearing good about the current stuff either. Like I said, I have had a lot of problems with Hornady products lately. Seen a lot at the range I work at also. A lot of our range officers will not use Hornady any more. Blown primers in the 6.5 ammo. Lots of miss fires in the 223 and inconsistent accuracy from one box to the next. Not small small differences. Match bullets that very a lot in ogive length and weight. I hear complaints about their brass all the time. Not sure what they have going on but they lost me as a customer. I am using up the old stock of bullets I have but will not buy any more. If they are making ammo for other companies that is better than their own, they may want to look into what they are doing.

I do know they would not put their name on the FC brass. That was meant more as a joke since it is better brass in my opinion.

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#3186378 - 01/17/19 08:55 PM Re: Two issues with CZ 17 hornet [Re: Jay03]
dan158 Offline
Die Hard Member II

Registered: 03/31/14
Posts: 1308
Loc: PA
If use 1680.. Hornady list 12.4 as max and 3750 fps.. Dan

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#3186515 - 01/18/19 12:40 PM Re: Two issues with CZ 17 hornet [Re: Jay03]
Jay03 Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 02/27/11
Posts: 45
Loc: Oregon
As luck would have it 1680 it out of stock locally. I'll resume this project when I can get my hands on some.

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