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#3185958 - 01/16/19 12:43 PM Re: .223 not cutting it for coyotes [Re: Pantera]
newcoyotehunter Online
Predator Master

Registered: 12/23/09
Posts: 75
Loc: SW, IN
Couldn't agree more with everyone, .223 with 55 gr vmax for me, hardly ever have one run. You very well may find that bigger isn't always better. I was running a 6.5 grendel with 95 gr ballistic tips last year. Seemed like 1 out of every 2 I shot would run a ways. What I came to learn was the heavier bullet was pinholing right through several of them. This year i switched back to .223 and have only had 1 coyote of 30 run which i believe was a poor shot on my part at 300 yds.

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#3185970 - 01/16/19 02:07 PM Re: .223 not cutting it for coyotes [Re: reb8600]
6724 Offline
Die Hard Member III

Registered: 01/19/11
Posts: 2851
Loc: colorado
Originally Posted By: reb8600
Bad shots and it is a caliber problem??? Bigger caliber isnít going to help if you canít make good shots


Truth right there.

I have killed a couple hundred coyotes with a 223. I've lost a few, but not many. But, now I use a 17-223, haven't lost one yet out of about 40 them.

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#3185987 - 01/16/19 03:15 PM Re: .223 not cutting it for coyotes [Re: SlickerThanSnot]
R. Toker Offline
Seasoned Member

Registered: 01/06/03
Posts: 218
Loc: Ohio, USA
Originally Posted By: SlickerThanSnot
these 223 wont kill a 25 pound coyote threads are always good for some laughs.


That's where you're wrong. That coyote was at least 55 pounds!
_________________________
MY Equipment:

FoxPro CS24C

Stag Arms - 5.56mm - Hornady 55gr VMax
- Burris Mtac 1x-4x Ill Reticle
Spikes Tactical - .300 Blackout 110gr Vmax
- Vortex Diamondback HP 2x8x32

Night Eyes Hunting Lights




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#3185995 - 01/16/19 03:41 PM Re: .223 not cutting it for coyotes [Re: R. Toker]
Brad Phillips Offline
Die Hard Member II

Registered: 01/11/04
Posts: 1077
Loc: Gilbertville, IA
Originally Posted By: R. Toker
Originally Posted By: SlickerThanSnot
these 223 wont kill a 25 pound coyote threads are always good for some laughs.


That's where you're wrong. That coyote was at least 55 pounds!


And was wearing a bandana, he was one tough mother trucker.
_________________________
"No free lunch internet answer can answer that" pahntr760

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#3186003 - 01/16/19 04:00 PM Re: .223 not cutting it for coyotes [Re: Pantera]
SnowmanMo Offline
Director/Moderator

Registered: 09/23/08
Posts: 3268
Loc: Phoenix, Az
I shot a lot of coyotes with both a 16in .223 and an 18in .223 using Hornady 55gr Vmax's for a long time. When we saw runners we switched to the SP's and that worked.

But I also run a 16in .308 AR and love it using the 150gr SP's.
_________________________


Mama always said, coyotes are like a box of chocolates...



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#3186069 - 01/16/19 08:05 PM Re: .223 not cutting it for coyotes [Re: Pantera]
nightcaller Offline
Die Hard Member II

Registered: 11/25/05
Posts: 1183
Loc: UT
I would think a box of hornady ammo would solve your problem.

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#3186090 - 01/16/19 09:24 PM Re: .223 not cutting it for coyotes [Re: Pantera]
tnvarmint Offline
Predator Master

Registered: 12/11/06
Posts: 92
Loc: Johnson City, TN
I am with most everyone else here. Seems more of a shot placement problem than caliber problem. I would dare say that there are more coyotes killed each year with the 223/556 round than any other round.

Without getting into a huge debate over this following comment, I will also point out that it is currently the round of choice of the US military and military and LE around the world. Although not the most effective combat round and yes there has been a lot of debate about its effectiveness on the battlefield, fact is it does its job decently against 200 lbs targets and that is with military crap ball ammo and not modern BT ammo. I have no doubt it will take down a 25-40 lbs coyote or other predator with even moderately accurate shot placement.

That being said, I currently use an Ar in 6.8 SPC. It's my latest AR build and love the round so far. I would definitely check shot placement before ditching the 223/556 and then if still not satisfied, look at other AR-15 calibers like the 6.8 SPC among others before switching to the heavier, more expensive AR-10 platform.
_________________________
Thanks and God Bless,
Michael

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#3186101 - 01/16/19 09:32 PM Re: .223 not cutting it for coyotes [Re: Pantera]
tnvarmint Offline
Predator Master

Registered: 12/11/06
Posts: 92
Loc: Johnson City, TN
I also want to add this. Don't take it that folks here are saying you are a bad shot. It could possibly be just simple practice is needed. So many of us, myself included at times, go to the range and shoot MOA or even sub-MOA groups off of a nice stable rest or bi-pod and never practice off-hand or shooting sticks both standing and sitting.

I am no competition shooter but I can get between 0.5 and 1 inch groups out of all of my hunting rifles off the rest. That group gets larger when shooting off-hand or from shooting sticks and even worse depending on my sitting position. All too often we have to take a somewhat hurried shot in the field with less than optimal shooting stance and such which will result in less than accurate shots. Practice these real world shooting positions so that you are more prepared when in the field.


Edited by tnvarmint (01/16/19 09:33 PM)
_________________________
Thanks and God Bless,
Michael

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#3186184 - 01/17/19 06:01 AM Re: .223 not cutting it for coyotes [Re: Pantera]
willy1947 Offline
Die Hard Member III

Registered: 11/20/11
Posts: 3026
Loc: Ohio, Ohio



I am old school, I like seeing them blow up.
When, they get hit with my 220 Swift.
PINK MIST was invented by the swift.
I load 45 OP @ 3.950/4,000fps.
56 years shooting and loading the swift.
On my 3rd rifle, 2 model 70's and now a ruger 77.
I load a Barnes 223 grenade bullet that is good in a 223 rem. powder metal.
My walking around rifle is a Yogo, Mini Mauser in 223, Interarms.
_________________________
Writing in this blog is like guessing, the color of a pig in a poke. You are wrong a lot more than you are right.
"No one plans to fail; we only fail to plan!"
NRA Life Member

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#3186217 - 01/17/19 09:45 AM Re: .223 not cutting it for coyotes [Re: tnvarmint]
SnowmanMo Offline
Director/Moderator

Registered: 09/23/08
Posts: 3268
Loc: Phoenix, Az
Originally Posted By: tnvarmint
I also want to add this. Don't take it that folks here are saying you are a bad shot. It could possibly be just simple practice is needed. So many of us, myself included at times, go to the range and shoot MOA or even sub-MOA groups off of a nice stable rest or bi-pod and never practice off-hand or shooting sticks both standing and sitting.

I am no competition shooter but I can get between 0.5 and 1 inch groups out of all of my hunting rifles off the rest. That group gets larger when shooting off-hand or from shooting sticks and even worse depending on my sitting position. All too often we have to take a somewhat hurried shot in the field with less than optimal shooting stance and such which will result in less than accurate shots. Practice these real world shooting positions so that you are more prepared when in the field.


Excellent comment! Sometimes it is hard to accurately impart the right emotion into our comments when we use the electronic medium.

I make plenty of "less than ideal" shots. I have had situations where I placed, what I felt, was a "perfect shot" only to have a coyote turn and run. In the last video I posted, I had a dead square on chest shot that, for whatever reason, ended up blowing out the side of the coyote. Shouldn't have happened, I was squared up on the coyote, but it did. Sure, it's going to shake your confidence. But I have plenty of dead coyotes that have taken hits form that rifle and were DRT. So I am not going to abandon my tried and true rifle/ammo combo and go try to find the holy bullet grail. I am just going to try hard to make the best shot I can.

Originally Posted By: willy1947



I am old school, I like seeing them blow up.
When, they get hit with my 220 Swift.
PINK MIST was invented by the swift.
I load 45 OP @ 3.950/4,000fps.
56 years shooting and loading the swift.
On my 3rd rifle, 2 model 70's and now a ruger 77.
I load a Barnes 223 grenade bullet that is good in a 223 rem. powder metal.
My walking around rifle is a Yogo, Mini Mauser in 223, Interarms.




Me too Willy. I may not be as "old school" as some, but there is something SO satisfying about that meat slap...
_________________________


Mama always said, coyotes are like a box of chocolates...



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#3186225 - 01/17/19 10:43 AM Re: .223 not cutting it for coyotes [Re: Pantera]
SlickerThanSnot Online
Die Hard Member with a vengeance

Registered: 01/31/14
Posts: 4974
Loc: stuck in a fence
hmmmm, i have killed many coyotes with a 220 swift and its lil brother the 22-250. i never had either one "pink mist" or "blow up" a coyote. at least not what i or the guys i hang with consider pink mist or blow up.

but a prairie dog, rock chuck or jack rabbit, yeah baby. smile

_________________________
if you shoot a 223 at coyotes you may father children with 6 toes. are you willing to chance that?

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#3186308 - 01/17/19 05:37 PM Re: .223 not cutting it for coyotes [Re: Pantera]
tnvarmint Offline
Predator Master

Registered: 12/11/06
Posts: 92
Loc: Johnson City, TN
Just to add a little to my previous comment, within the last 24 hours or so, a popular youtuber that I watch posted a video where he was hunting deer in Mexico. I forget the exact range at which he took the shot but it was a good distance and off of a fairly stable tri-pod for a rest. He missed the shot.

I won't mention his channel name because I don't wan't this to be construed as an advertisement for him, but he is an US Army sniper veteran. He knows how to make a shot, especially when it counts. But even the "best of the best" miss occasionally and have nobody but themselves to blame. For the rest of us "average joes", we might miss more than occasionally, especially without putting the proper time in at the range, practicing all shooting stances.

For him, it wasn't about the rifle or caliber choice, he simply messed up and pulled off a bad shot.
_________________________
Thanks and God Bless,
Michael

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#3186327 - 01/17/19 07:00 PM Re: .223 not cutting it for coyotes [Re: tnvarmint]
case-nh Offline
Die Hard Member

Registered: 02/11/05
Posts: 673
Loc: Iowa
Out of 150 coyotes taken in the last 2 years with 55 grain V-Max reloaded by a veteran who runs a commercial reloading and gun shop hear in eastern Iowa (FarrosLeadFarm.com ; check him out, great prices on ammo, firearms, etc.). I've had 3 unrecovered coyotes. They made it to deep heavy cover where I lost them. Only took a few second shots to finish the job on a few. Estimate 30 to 40% are dead and just don't know it. Run 30 to 100 yds. being lung to heart shot and then drop. I've been hunting exclusively at night now.

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#3186372 - 01/17/19 08:43 PM Re: .223 not cutting it for coyotes [Re: Pantera]
EddiePA Offline
New Member

Registered: 12/19/18
Posts: 3
Loc: PA
55gr. UMC SP is a slow expanding projectile. In a coyote, it may not be expanding much, if at all. This is a projectile selection issue, not a cartridge selection issue.

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#3187086 - 01/20/19 11:46 PM Re: .223 not cutting it for coyotes [Re: Pantera]
mcseal2 Offline
Seasoned Member

Registered: 12/22/10
Posts: 160
Loc: KS
I agree with the others on shot placement. A 223 takes better shot placement to anchor a coyote than say a 70 or 75 grain Ballistic Tip or V max from a 243. It does the job well though with a good shot.

For practice I like shooting the polymer ball targets that roll when hit. I use two of them and shoot one then the other, switch back and forth. Doing that from my sticks makes me set the sticks and find the ball in the scope every shot. It's darn good practice. When doing it don't only shoot angles that are comfortable, shoot ones that aren't too. I find that shooting to my right as a right handed shooter is tough so I practice it more than most. I set up on coyotes for a shot in front of me or to my left so I don't have to make the tough shots as often.

The difference between a 16" and 20" barrel for me was about 200fps with the same brand 55gr V max ammo in a couple of different AR's. The 16" barrel shot it 2750fps, the 20" 2964fps. It's not a perfect comparison since it was two different barrels.

The 20" barrel shot the 53gr Hornady Superformance ammo 3286fps but the rifle didn't like it. I am shooting it from my Savage Hog Hunter bolt gun and it shoots great from it.

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