Annealing brass with lead

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A neghbor and good freind at 80+ years old has been reloading and as well as casting his own bullets for longer then I have been alive. We had a discussion about annealing brass and the benifits. I told him about some of the new expensive gizmos some use to get lesser results as in not as consistant. He sugested I do it using lead which was how the government annealed brass for many years. So, I bought a cheep melting pot and started annealing. The reason for using lead for annealing is to keep the temperature low enough for proper uniform annealing, and that is simply not possible using the torch method. With a torch the case is often heated on one side more than the other, temperatures are not readily repeatable from case to case, and in falling over into the water, one side is quenched before the other. To minimize the likelihood of lead sticking to the brass case it is best to use as close to pure lead as possible (although any lead alloy will work). Anneal your cases with the fired primers left in, as that forms an airlock that keeps lead away from the inside of the case. With respect to annealing cases using molten lead, basically you: set the thermostat on your pot at seven hundred to eight hundred degrees ‘F’ pick up each case by the head and dip the neck of the cases about a quarter-inch into some powdered graphite or light oil (vegetable oil is fine) but my buddie used 30 wt. The oil keeps lead from sticking to the brass. Shake off any excess oil, dip the neck, shoulder, and about a quarter-inch of the case body into the molten lead and just as you begin to feel an uncomfortable degree of heat in your finger tips, drop the case into water. If you hold the cases in some other way than with your bare fingers, leave them in the molten lead from eight to twelve, but not more than fifteen seconds. When the case is hot enough that the lead does not cling to it, it is annealed. Pull the case up out of the lead, tap on the side of the case to remove any bits of lead (if the lead is really sticking, the case isn't annealed!), then drop it mouth down (straight) into a container that is mostly full of water. Following the anneal, it would be wise to closely inspect the inside of the case both visually and with a bent paper clip just to make sure there are no lead drippings adhering to the inside the case. Because it only takes a few seconds per case, you can anneal hundreds of cases in an hour with this method. After the annealing process, remove the cases from the water. Then, dry and tumble the cases to remove any traces of residual oil and they are ready to process.
For any of you concerned about fumes Jay lived to be in his 80s and still sharp as a tac.
 
Good info!

I still have my 40 year old Lee lead pot up in the attic somewhere. I just may be able to motivate myself enough to go up there and look for it. Sounds like a good winter project to me and the winters can be long here in Idaho.
 
Originally Posted By: RustydustGood info!

I still have my 40 year old Lee lead pot up in the attic somewhere. I just may be able to motivate myself enough to go up there and look for it. Sounds like a good winter project to me and the winters can be long here in Idaho.
Thats about what I use. I bought a used lead pot for $15 I was amazed at how well it worked and how easy it was.
 
The reason we quench with water is to limit the annealing to the neck and not the shoulder. I was told the lead has a much more consistent temperature then some other methods so there is more consistent results.
 
I have all of the lead casting tools to do the "lead annealing" method, but I think I will stick with this: http://bench-source.com/id81.html

No water, no oil, the case slowly spins in two flames, and I don't have to add to my lead fume accumulation.
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Interesting historical method, but Bench Source, using precision timers, is a very consistent annealing machine. Once I set it up for whatever case I am annealing, I run hundreds through the machine, and each piece shows identical annealing discolored brass. No muss no fuss, and the beautiful annealed brass is sitting in a stainless bowl, under the machine.

No issue with old methods, but sometimes someone does build a better mousetrap.

Squeeze
 
I dont consider annealing with gas a better mouse trap at all. The temperature would not be nearly as consistent.
 
there is no need for a water bath. the case head will never see anywhere near the temperature needed to anneal it.
 
Originally Posted By: ScalloperI dont consider annealing with gas a better mouse trap at all. The temperature would not be nearly as consistent.

Can you please explain how an 8 to 15 second dunk into molten lead (of unknown temperature) can be more consistent than a timed exposure to a gas flame-after setting up the time and flame with 750 degree Tempilaq?
 
I cast bullets and have a Lee 4/20 pot but never tried the lead method. I find a socket that fits my case and stick in a cordless drill, spin the case while while heating it with a propaign torch. I just set the torch bottle on a flat surface and spin the case from the drill in it. Spinning it gets a nice even heat all the way around it. Once it starts turning pink I drop the casing in a pan of water. Takes about 2/3 seconds per case. The lead thinking sounds like it it could be messy if it ends up sticking to the casings.
 
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Originally Posted By: arlaunchI take cases that need to be annealed and throw them into the garbage can.

You either have money to throw away, or do not shoot as much as some of us.
 
Originally Posted By: arlaunchI take cases that need to be annealed and throw them into the garbage can.

What calibers? I'll pay for shipping!
 
Originally Posted By: 6724Originally Posted By: arlaunchI take cases that need to be annealed and throw them into the garbage can.

You either have money to throw away, or do not shoot as much as some of us.

6724,

We make a very good living. I bet you throw away more money than I do though. I see people piss away hundreds and thousands of dollars due to poor decision making, failed marriages, foolish thinking, coupled with living above means and interest payments to the bank.

$60 for a box of Lapua brass is nothing. People tip that much on a good night of drinking.

In all seriousness though, I appreciate the post and the tips on lead use for annealing. Someday i will buy a nice bolt action rifle in 270 or 243 and give annealing a shot. It is clear that the last annealing step gives a more uniform case release, which takes the last small percentage of extreme spread numbers down to the minimum.

All useful steps for long range shooting.

I will never shoot precious game animals from extreme long range. My skills are not up to it. Too much respect for them and the wind.
 
Originally Posted By: DultimatpredatorOriginally Posted By: arlaunchI take cases that need to be annealed and throw them into the garbage can.

What calibers? I'll pay for shipping!

You can't anneal your way out of loose primer pockets. Paying for garbage to be shipped to your house is not saving money.
 
Originally Posted By: pyscodogA case that needs annealed and one that has loose primer pockets are two different things.

My point is buying cases, or paying expensive shipping fee's from another person sight unseen is not the best idea as the cases could all be "shot"

Apologies for stepping on toes here.

Merry Christmas & Happy Holidays all. We can bicker like kids again next year.
 
You guys must shoot way more than I do being I have 243 and 300 rum brass I've shot a good dozen and a half plus times and still have tight primer pockets. I've enealed them at least twice now. I load my 243 2 Grains over noslers Max recommended loading as well. I normally aneal all my brass when it's brand new, whether it needs it or not, and again after a good 7 plus firings. I started casting bullets last year and fired the same 44 mag casings a good 15/16 times just to see if I would get cracked necks or loose or worn out primer pockets. Every one of casings are still going strong...but I did aneal them before starting...and they were at least once or twice fired casings I had laying around from the late 90's to begin with. I'm sure I'll eventually get some primer pockets to loosen up.
 
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