223 brass, primer, and bullet choice

Kelch

New member
Hey everyone! I’m reloading for my 223 1:9 twist savage model 116 and haven’t found a load so far that works well... I was trying to get the Sierra 60gr varminter bullets to work. I have tried 3 different powders with about 8 charges from each and 3 different seating depths. Not saying these are bad bullets but they don’t seem to work in my rifle. I have heard some good things about the 53gr Vmax and 55gr Sierras. I have been using CCI benchrest primers and I tried federal small rifle primers but they seemed inconsistent.

Thanks in advanced! I hope to get some reply’s without someone saying look at this thread from 5 years ago 😂
 
Try CFE .223 it will be your fastest powder. It has shot well with about every bullet I have tried. I only use 40 gr V-MAX in mine.
 
Hornady 53 vm shoots tiny groups with Benchmark,CCI primers and Remington brass from my Savage 1/9 barrels. Seems to be in the 25-26 gr range, one ladder or owc test should show the node.
 
1:9 twist. I would use Hornady VMax or Seirra Blitzking 50 or 55 grain. As for powder, I like Varget or RE-15. Primer is always a CCI 450. I believe the long length vs. small diameter of the .223 benefits from the Mag primer. I started using them when primers were of short supply a few years ago. Never looked back. Besides, now I only have one primer on the bench for rifle and AR use. Edit. Oops forgot brass. If you work the LC once fired brass. Trim to length, full length resize, turn necks and ream out the crimp on the primer pocket, they are great. Other wise for target ammo I would choose Lapua or Norma. Just my opinion. Most brass is good brass if you work them.
 
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I use with the Hornady 60gr SP or the 60gr HP, on top of 24.3gr of IMR 4064, loaded to 2.240in OAL.

I am running Winchester small rifle primers, and either Hornady or PMC brass.

But with a slow twist like that you might want to try the same load in the 55gr SP, or even lighter. The barrel may not be spinning those bullets fast enough to get it to correctly stabilize it.
 
Have you shot any factory ammo as a baseline or any other loads that shot well to make sure you're starting with a good barrel? If not I'd buy a box of factory Federal Gold Medal 69gr and run through it to test the barrel. That's pretty much the gold standard of factory 223 match ammo and if it doesn't shoot then you may not have a great tube.

If it's a newer barrel are you sure it's not copper fouled? Savage barrels are very rough from the factory and tend to copper foul pretty badly for the first few hundred rounds.

You said you tried 3 different seating depths, what was the jump from the lands for each one?

How did you determine what powder charges to try, and did you shoot them over a chrono as well watching for ES and SD?

What powders did you use?

Did you do a ladder test?
 
I have seen plenty of comments on people shooting up to 70gr bullets with the same twist but I have only shot 55gr factory ammo (no match type, just haven’t found it locally the little I have looked) but that is around a 2” group at 100 and my had loads are about 1 1/2” at 100. I have the same gun in a 270 that’s a tack driver. I probably have about 300 rounds through the gun but I have cleaned the barrel a few times and it never seems to be very dirty, looks smooth. It’s ok if I can’t shoot the 60gr I just have like 2 boxes and assumed they would end up working out alright with my barrel twist. I’m not saying 1 1/2” is a bad group but I was expecting to get down around .5-.75 at 100.
 
Originally Posted By: MGYSGT1:9 twist. I would use Hornady VMax or Seirra Blitzking 50 or 55 grain. As for powder, I like Varget or RE-15.


My Model 112 Savage with the 1/9" twist barrel shot very well with either the 50 grain Vmax or the 50 grain Ballistic Tip bullets. It shoots just great with the Blitzkings too but due to their higher price I just used the Hornaday or Noslers.

My favorite load was 26 grains of Varget with the CCI BR primer. Sure killed a lot of ground squirrels and prairie dogs. Lots and lots.
 
Which 55gr factory ammo exactly? In a good barrel even cheap Wolf steel cased shout shoot the 2" you saw at worst and most ball will hover 1.5-2moa.

I would pick up a box or two of quality ammo and shoot a few groups before proceeding any more so you're not wasting your time and components if you have a bad tube. There's certainly plenty of savages that won't shoot, several years ago I bought one of the long range hunters in 7mm rem mag that was shooting 6" groups at best. I sent it in and they sent it back to me stating is meets their accuracy standards with no test target returned, work order showing they test fired it and got X accuracy with X ammo or anything. I swore that was the last savage I'd ever buy and it was. I've known others who've gotten ones that didn't shoot either. When you're talking factory grade rifles like that not every one will be a shooter so it's entirely possible that you just got a bad one.
 
Sierra 1390's, Winchester brass and, a bit over max of W748 with WSR primers shoots tight groups in all rifles i have tried it in.

Go until accuracy opens up or you see pressure. You won't be disappointed.

Nosler BT 55's shoot about the same with the same combo but have WAY better B.C.


If you want more speed i have had excellent luck with the same combo's between 25.5 - 26.1 grains of H4895. Accuracy comes on the very top of the load listing.

What was the difference in group size between SAMI COAL and the few others that you tried?

 
I have shot a few different kinds of factory ammo... Remington, Wolf, And federal. The remingtons shot the best at about 1.8”. It’s possible it’s just not going to shoot any better then that. And the difference in accuracy with COAL was minimal... .1- to like .15 of an inch. I am usually a pretty good shot too so I wouldn’t say it’s me but some of it could be. I have the trigger adjusted to it’s lowest setting (just over 2.5lbs) which is what I like and prefer. Front bipod or tripod rest and rear bag. I do have a busnell scope that I may replace or take one off another gun I don’t use as much. I will do as suggested and try some good match or varmint factory ammo and see what I get. If I need to I’ll rebarrel it which may turn into another short action caliber...
 
Getting down to 0.50" (half inch) groups at 100 yards rested is not all that easy - match barrel or not. Your 1:9 twist might be OK for 69 grain bullets but most 1:9 twist barrels I'm familiar with won't shoot them very well at all. I would stay with 55 to 60 grain bullets (or lighter) to be on the safe side of things.

Might try shooting off a solid front rest - the bipods sometimes can be a problem if you're not consistent in loading them - either forward or rearward pressure.

I would give CFE223 a try - with my 1:7 twist and 55 grain bullets, I need to be on the top end according to the Hodgdon loading data - otherwise 2 inch groups are the norm with that powder in my rifle. Top end loads are under an inch consistently. All other powders tried won't give me that performance with 55 grain bullets with my rifle.

For load development I use a 30X scope - once I find my load, I go back to the 2moa red dot and I no longer consistently shoot those sub-minute groups.
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I have 2 savages with 22" 9 twist barrels and they both love 55g Nosler ballistic tips over 24.2 of H335 with CCI 450 primers. A buddy of mine has a model 16 like yours and he shoots 55 Vmax over W748 and has very good results also. I have found the .223's very easy to get sub 1" groups out of, even with factory winchester supreme 55g bst's. I would think there must be some kind of problem with the rifle.
 
I would say try a different powder as was suggested. Lets be honest no one is happy with an 1-1/2" group, dare I say it's garbage these days? When working up a load I always try around 5 different powder charges .3 apart up to your max to find an accuracy node. Once I have my charge I then try say 5 seating depths to find the next accuracy node for that given powder charge. Lot of range time but worth it.

One thing I learned after getting Quickload data is starting with a powder with as close to 100% burn rate for your barrel length makes everything else fall into line so much easier. I only start with a powder that has such a rate.
 
Every gun is different so my load for my 223 may not shoot well in your gun. I've found the Norma TAC223 ammo to be some of the most consistent factory ammo that is a decent price. My Savage 223 will average less than 1" groups with it at 100 yards and I get the bonus of having better quality brass.
I've had good results with CFE 223 and benchmark in my 223 but I'm sure many of the other powders would work great. My guess is that adjusting the velocity may be the first test to try. A ladder test can help you save time and money. With Barnes 36 gr Varmint Grenades I initially had terrible groups of 3-4" and just decided my gun didn't like them. After letting them sit on shelf for a while I tried testing them at lower velocities and suddenly started getting 1/2" groups. If I had started with a ladder test, I would have figured that out right away and wasted less time and money on it.
 
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