Will removing my birdcage and adding a thread protector tighten my groups?

Dultimatpredator

Dultimatpredator

Well-known member
Just watched a YouTube video testing Muzzel brakes and then a thread protector. The thread protector shot the tightest. Is this true in all cases? My upper came with a birdcage and was thinking of changing it out but didn't realize it opens or tightens groups with adding different brakes. I would assume i have to do load development every time I change brakes? Is no brake...just a thread protector going to be more accurate on average?
 
Originally Posted By: DultimatpredatorThe thread protector shot the tightest. Is this true in all cases?

Of course not. How could it possibly be? All that's happening is changing out what is essentially a non adjustable tuner for a different non adjustable tuner and hoping one of them makes a positive difference - with a particular load. And if it does, it's just blind stupid luck.

- DAA
 
I would assume changing brakes is like changing choke tubes. The video I watched the guy ended up with his tightest group with the thread protector by default. I will pick out a Muzzel brake and work up loads that shoot best in it. Any suggestions for a 5/8x24 308 that reduces a good amount of recoil without blowing your ear drums?
 
I haven't done extensive testing, and I think other comments suggest it is really an individual combination crap shoot, but with the a linear compensator I played with, the thread protector gave the best groups. I thought the idea of a linear comp, directing muzzle blast forward, made a lot of sense, from a noise standpoint. Probably not from a recoil reduction standpoint, but I thought I would try one. My tiny group shooting 6.8 SPC, opened up. Not horrible, but from sub-MOA groups to slightly over 1 MOA groups. So the thread protector went back on, and I moved the linear comp to a Home Defense rifle, where accuracy shifts of that degree didn't matter. I also played with it on a 223 rifle, that happened to have a 5/8x24 threaded muzzle, and had similar results. FWIW, my best shooting AR barrels, have no threaded barrel, and a target crown. I keep getting barrels threaded, just to use my suppressors, but it sure seems easier to get to itty bitty groups, without a muzzle device.

Squeeze
 
Originally Posted By: DultimatpredatorI would assume changing brakes is like changing choke tubes.

Huh???

That's like assuming that chasing your pants is like changing your wiper blades. The two have absolutely no parallel or commonality. How on earth do you figure they are alike?

I hate muzzle brakes, personally.

- DAA
 
Originally Posted By: Squeeze I keep getting barrels threaded, just to use my suppressors, but it sure seems easier to get to itty bitty groups, without a muzzle device.

Squeeze

I get all mine threaded now too. The absolute best you can hope for with getting a barrel threaded is no harm. It can't help accuracy and definitely has the potential to harm it. Assuming the crown was fine to begin with. But nothing good can come from reducing diameter at the muzzle, nothing good at all.

That's why I'm just as picky about who threads my barrels and how they do it as I am about who chambers my barrels and how they do it. And why I have chosen suppressors with brake type mounts so that I can use the largest threads possible on each different muzzle diameter.

- DAA
 
Originally Posted By: DultimatpredatorI would assume changing brakes is like changing choke tubes.

i assume you dont own or shoot a shotgun?

choke tubes and rifle brakes have zero in common.
 
So from what I am reading......the best groups will PROBABLY be without a muzzle break? Correct? The reason I'm asking is my Browning has a factory break on it and I really don't like it or think it necessary for the caliber as recoil isn't a problem.
 
Originally Posted By: pyscodogSo from what I am reading......the best groups will PROBABLY be without a muzzle break? Correct? The reason I'm asking is my Browning has a factory break on it and I really don't like it or think it necessary for the caliber as recoil isn't a problem.

dang, that would be a question 1assassin could answer!

but my guess is you would not notice a bit of difference except for noise. it would not take much to find out.
 
I think that the main issue here is barrel whip. You can't stop it. But adding weight to the end of a barrel would potentially increase the whip. T he chambers of the brake could compensate for the weight, if the brake is manufactured correctly.

A bird cage does nothing for recoil and does add weight. That could change the way that the rounds are coming out.

If you have a well manufactured barrel, that is correctly crowned, the grooves and lands are identical lengths, meaning that there will be less chance of gas jetting causing bullet yaw when the bullet leaves the muzzle. Muzzle devices do not necessarily follow those rules and could have some variation in gas venting causing some inaccuracy issues.

I think it's going to be different depending on what muzzle device you have. They are not all created equally.
 
All matters of concentricity aside, simply adding a weight to the end of a barrel will alter the harmonics. Period. Different weights, or different length for same weight, different alteration of harmonics. Period.

All load tuning boils down to is matching the load to barrel harmonics.

So, any change to harmonics has the potential to improve or worsen accuracy for any given load. Period. This is why barrel tuners work. A change in harmonics also has the possibility of making no difference. What is actually far more common than no difference, is that the rifle isn't accurate enough and not a large enough sample size is ever taken to tell you the difference with any degree of certainty anyway, so it just doesn't matter. In other words, it still makes a difference, but the signal to noise ratio drowns it out.

But you can not add anything to the muzzle of any barrel without altering harmonics. All else being equal, which in the real world it never is, but - how well a load is tuned to the harmonics of the barrel will determine how accurate that load is compared to other loads in that same barrel.

Matters of concentricity, crown condition, bell mouth/reverse choke/bore expansion with material removal etc. are separate issues that each have the potential to decrease accuracy. But "assuming" all is well in these areas to begin with, none of this can do anything to improve accuracy. The best that can be hoped for is no harm.

- DAA
 
When I referred it to a choke tube I was referring to how the gas was directed or squeezed that might have caused the variance. I would assume the real answer is it changes the harmonics and vibrations.

Here is the video I was referring to. Maybe the shooter is just not consistent himself?
He is shooting off his truck so you might as well throw the test out the window as far as I'm concerned. I use my lead sled off a bench if I'm trying to shoot for groups.





I don't believe that a brake VS no brake that or the other is going to get better accuracy. IMO you have to load for the rifle. My POF with The obnoxiously loud factory brake shoots cloverleaves at a 100 yards with 25 gr of benchmark and I can shoot .3" groups with it at 200 yards when I do my part. I guess shooters that don't reload can fiddle like this to try and get a specific factory load to shoot.
 
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Given the pickiness of how people want their crown I can't imagine anything that unevenly vents gas around the bullet is going to increase accuracy. Only target crowns or thread protectors for me.
 
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I ordered an extreme prescion 5/8x24 7/8 outside diameter stainless thread protector. I would assume it's gotta be about the same OD as my .936" barrel. For $10 I figured I'd keep it in my bag of tricks if I decide I don't like my bird cage that came with my upper.

Here's the one I bought...

https://www.amazon.com/Xtreme-Precision-...04SCSCDA4XRKTXW

Figured it would like nicer than a plain Jane nurled end.
 
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Pretty fancy thread protector! I would have to paint it black, or FDE, to keep from having to wear sunglasses, if I had that on one of my barrels.
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Seriously, it does look like a nice thread protector. On my next Amazon order, I will get one. I am short at least one thread protector now.

Squeeze
 
This past weekend we did some field modifications to one of our guys rifles. We were helping to get him ready for an upcoming hunt competition. One of our guys volunteered to loan him the use of one of his suppressors. So once we were done hunting, we removed the muzzle brake from his rifle, installed the QD adapter, and mounted the suppressor.

Then we had him verify zero. SCHWACK----DING! Same POI.

Good barrel, good ammo, correctly installed muzzle device, no shift.

Now I know that not all suppressors are going to result in a zero POI shift. My personal suppressor shifts my zero 4 inches. But it's a stainless suppressor and it's pretty heavy. The Surefire specwar that we used doesn't shift the POI like my YHM.

But regardless of POI shift, I can cloverleaf with my .308 using my YHM suppressor.

Accuracy means hitting your target. Precision means hitting the same spot repeatedly. Your muzzle device may not effect your accuracy, but you might notice it in your precision.
 
Originally Posted By: SlickerThanSnotOriginally Posted By: DultimatpredatorI would assume changing brakes is like changing choke tubes.

i assume you dont own or shoot a shotgun?

choke tubes and rifle brakes have zero in common.

ya... i'm still scratching my head where he came up with that. wow. talk about apples and bananas.
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