Temperature sensitivities for powders

Hcboy

New member
I’m curious if there’s any websites or somewhere on this forum that has information on powder temperature sensitivity? I’m mostly interested in the temp sensitivity in cfe 223 and 8202 xbr. Does anybody know how susceptible these powders are in the cold? Living in North Dakota it’s something I want to be aware of and avoid developing loads that are prone to this. Thanks
 
I threw together a load last winter with CFE223 and it shot amazing with little testing, this summer shooting the same load the groups were very poor. I haven't done any testing to find out what was going on, if I was really trying to figure it out I would down load the CFE a little in the summer and test if that was the problem, but for whatever reason, there was a large difference.

If you're not familiar with CFE223 (Copper Foiling Eraser), CFE can perfectly also represent Carbon Fouling Explosion, it's messy powder. Sometimes I do some shooting with my AR and leave the gun loaded, left loaded for a couple days and the top rounds in the magazine start to tarnish from whatever they put in the powder to cut down on copper fouling.

Not to say CFE223 sucks, if I can get it to shoot year round how it was shooting last winter I would put up with it's downfalls, because it was doing great.

Here in MN I shoot if it's -25 or 95+, the best powders I have used and been consistent year round have been from Hodgdons extreme powder line. IMR has come out with their equivalent "Enduron" powder line that's supposed to be pretty good with temperature stability also but I haven't tried any yet.
 
Sounds like cfe 223 might have some temporary sensitivity. I’m using h322 currently which is in the extreme line of Hodgdon but just wanted to make sure I’m not missing out on something.
 
I use CF&E 223 year round here in Montana. Never been a problem. I use it in my 223 & 204. I don't load hot, I find what works for my rifle and use that load. I go to the range before I start the fall predator calling and in the spring for prairie dogs. That way I know that the rifle is going to shoot where I aim. JMO

Rudy
 
Originally Posted By: rudymontanaI use CF&E 223 year round here in Montana. Never been a problem. I use it in my 223 & 204. I don't load hot, I find what works for my rifle and use that load. I go to the range before I start the fall predator calling and in the spring for prairie dogs. That way I know that the rifle is going to shoot where I aim.

+1
We can believe the commercials, the hype and our friends, but this is the only surefire way to prove that you are spot on.
I make it a point to take several trips to the range throughout the year, just to make sure that the guns I'm hunting with are still dialed in with the load I will be hunting with.
I've heard that IMR8208XBR is supposed to be temp insensitive, cfe223 makes no such claims.
 
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Originally Posted By: HcboyI’m curious if there’s any websites or somewhere on this forum that has information on powder temperature sensitivity? I’m mostly interested in the temp sensitivity in cfe 223 and 8202 xbr. Does anybody know how susceptible these powders are in the cold? Living in North Dakota it’s something I want to be aware of and avoid developing loads that are prone to this. Thanks

Someone over on 68forums.com posted this chart. You might be able to find a factory temp sensitivity chart from a manufacturer.
download (1) by Jason Mosler, on Flickr
 
I'm no powder expert. I do believe powder "sensitivity" is more marketing gimmick than reality. I've killed big game at freezing temps and a shirt sleeve elk rut hunt. Temps didn't affect accuracy.

There's an old fishermen saying: fishing tackle is designed to catch fishermen. I can trout fish the Western USA with a half-dozen lures. I can offshore fish for big tune with a couple. I learned the expensive way: I have tackle boxes full of stuff that has never touched water.

I'm new to predator/small game hunting. I've bought a pound of IMR-4198 for my brand stanking new Triple Deuce. I have a feeling it'll be the only powder I'll need. I can load my big game rifles with only H-4831 & be content.

Just my opinion, and I ain't a powder expert. I merely know what works.
 
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Originally Posted By: HcboyI’m curious if there’s any websites or somewhere on this forum that has information on powder temperature sensitivity? I’m mostly interested in the temp sensitivity in cfe 223 and 8202 xbr. Does anybody know how susceptible these powders are in the cold? Living in North Dakota it’s something I want to be aware of and avoid developing loads that are prone to this. Thanks

I wanted to know about 8208 so I tested it. I loaded 5 in a mag and threw it in the freezer for awhile. And threw another mag in the oven, checking it often, till it was just fairly warm. There was quite a difference in speeds, I'm thinking 80 fps but can't remember for sure, I just know it was more than I was expecting.

I don't remember seeing any difference in accuracy, so the only problem would be with your dope on longish shots.
 
Wow thank you gentlemen.

Originally Posted By: SnowmanMoOriginally Posted By: HcboyI’m curious if there’s any websites or somewhere on this forum that has information on powder temperature sensitivity? I’m mostly interested in the temp sensitivity in cfe 223 and 8202 xbr. Does anybody know how susceptible these powders are in the cold? Living in North Dakota it’s something I want to be aware of and avoid developing loads that are prone to this. Thanks

Someone over on 68forums.com posted this chart. You might be able to find a factory temp sensitivity chart from a manufacturer.
download (1) by Jason Mosler, on Flickr
This shows a pretty significant drop for cfe 223 if I’m reading it right.
 
Originally Posted By: EMP3 I've bought a pound of IMR-4198 for my brand stanking new Triple Deuce. I have a feeling it'll be the only powder I'll need. I can load my big game rifles with only H-4831 & be content.

Hodgdon 4831 is very temperature stable, and IMR4198 is pretty good also, that's why you can use them year round with zero problem. If you were using temperature sensitive powders you would see a difference in climates that swing over 110 degrees.
 
Originally Posted By: EMP3I'm no powder expert. I do believe powder "sensitivity" is more marketing gimmick than reality. I've killed big game at freezing temps and a shirt sleeve elk rut hunt. Temps didn't affect accuracy.

Temperature sensitivity is not a gimmick. I have seen some big differences in loads worked up in the winter then shot in the summer with some powders.
 
748 is the powder of the devil when it gets hot. I've blown more primers with it in OKLAHOMA/ARIZONA heat with cool temp loads than everything else. I don't load anything with it now.

Greg
 
powder temp stability is an issue, apparently more so for some than others.
picked this up off the www so it has to be right, right?
_______________________________________________________

HS-6 1.21 fps per *
H110/W296 1.24 fps per *
Imr4227 1.17fps per *
Lil' Gun 1.31 fps per *
RL10x .71 fps per*
Benchmark .44 fps per *
Imr3031 .73 fps per *
Imr8208xbr .59 fps per *
H4895 .23 fps per *
Alliant Varmint pro .89 fps per *
Alliant AR comp .77 fps per *
Varget .19 fps per *
W748 1.32 fps per *
Imr4064 .53 fps per *
Ramshot Tac .91 fps per *
CFE223 1.72 fps per *
Imr4895 .87 fps per *
AA4064 1.11 fps per *
AA2520 .98 fps per *
RL15 1.52 fps per * from 50* and up
PP2000MR .99 fps per *
Imr4320 1.32 fps per *
Ramshot Biggame .98 fps per *
H380 1.44 fps per *
VV N150 1.08 fps per *
H414/W760 1.42 fps per *
Imr4350 .64 fps per *
AA4350 .47 fps per *
H4350 .29 fps per *
RL17 1.42 fps per *
Hybrid 100v .78 fps per *
RL19 1.61 fps per *
VV N160 1.24 fps per *
Imr4831 1.19 fps per *
Ramshot Hunter .86 fps per *
H4831 .36 fps per *
RL22 1.71 fps per *
Imr7828 1.36 fps per *
Magpro 1.01 fps per *
H1000 .21 fps per *
RL25 1.59 fps per *
Ramshot Magnum .87 fps per *
Retumbo .49 fps per *
US869 1.68 fps per *
H50bmg 1.64 fps per *




 
Same experience as GLShooter with 748. Worked up max loads in the cool of winter (in the 40s) blew primers & seized up a bolt on my Rem 788 shooting sage rats in the hot summer. I still use 748 but not near max loads.
 
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EMP3 i can tell you have never used h380 power this is very temp. sensitive.the difference in my 243 at 50 degrees and at 15 below is around 500 fps.Living in Montana i have the ability to shot in temps. from 40 below to 100 above . i have pages of loads shot at many different temps. all power are effected by temp.
 
Interesting figures! Still go to the range when seasons change and check the zero. I put my coyote rounds away after the season. I load up for P.D. season in late spring and zero the rifle again. I haven't shot any of the above powders, just the CF&E in my 223 and 204.

Rudy
 
here's another chart, found it on the 6.5 G forum, again fwiw..
2350.jpg


and took the previous chart then sorted it, twice....
no surprise these two charts are very close but not exact !!


2352.png
 
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