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#3170475 - 11/06/18 10:06 PM Temperature sensitivities for powders
Hcboy Offline
Predator Master

Registered: 02/11/18
Posts: 81
Loc: North dakota
Iím curious if thereís any websites or somewhere on this forum that has information on powder temperature sensitivity? Iím mostly interested in the temp sensitivity in cfe 223 and 8202 xbr. Does anybody know how susceptible these powders are in the cold? Living in North Dakota itís something I want to be aware of and avoid developing loads that are prone to this. Thanks

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#3170487 - 11/06/18 11:20 PM Re: Temperature sensitivities for powders [Re: Hcboy]
Rock Knocker Offline
Die Hard Member III

Registered: 12/29/11
Posts: 3036
Loc: Buffalo, MN
I threw together a load last winter with CFE223 and it shot amazing with little testing, this summer shooting the same load the groups were very poor. I haven't done any testing to find out what was going on, if I was really trying to figure it out I would down load the CFE a little in the summer and test if that was the problem, but for whatever reason, there was a large difference.

If you're not familiar with CFE223 (Copper Foiling Eraser), CFE can perfectly also represent Carbon Fouling Explosion, it's messy powder. Sometimes I do some shooting with my AR and leave the gun loaded, left loaded for a couple days and the top rounds in the magazine start to tarnish from whatever they put in the powder to cut down on copper fouling.

Not to say CFE223 sucks, if I can get it to shoot year round how it was shooting last winter I would put up with it's downfalls, because it was doing great.

Here in MN I shoot if it's -25 or 95+, the best powders I have used and been consistent year round have been from Hodgdons extreme powder line. IMR has come out with their equivalent "Enduron" powder line that's supposed to be pretty good with temperature stability also but I haven't tried any yet.

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#3170530 - 11/07/18 11:29 AM Re: Temperature sensitivities for powders [Re: Hcboy]
Hcboy Offline
Predator Master

Registered: 02/11/18
Posts: 81
Loc: North dakota
Sounds like cfe 223 might have some temporary sensitivity. Iím using h322 currently which is in the extreme line of Hodgdon but just wanted to make sure Iím not missing out on something.

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#3170532 - 11/07/18 11:43 AM Re: Temperature sensitivities for powders [Re: Hcboy]
rudymontana Offline
Die Hard Member II

Registered: 11/25/14
Posts: 1035
Loc: Montana,USA
I use CF&E 223 year round here in Montana. Never been a problem. I use it in my 223 & 204. I don't load hot, I find what works for my rifle and use that load. I go to the range before I start the fall predator calling and in the spring for prairie dogs. That way I know that the rifle is going to shoot where I aim. JMO

Rudy

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#3170538 - 11/07/18 12:28 PM Re: Temperature sensitivities for powders [Re: rudymontana]
reloader326 Offline
Die Hard Member

Registered: 12/11/17
Posts: 524
Loc: Ohio
Originally Posted By: rudymontana
I use CF&E 223 year round here in Montana. Never been a problem. I use it in my 223 & 204. I don't load hot, I find what works for my rifle and use that load. I go to the range before I start the fall predator calling and in the spring for prairie dogs. That way I know that the rifle is going to shoot where I aim.

+1
We can believe the commercials, the hype and our friends, but this is the only surefire way to prove that you are spot on.
I make it a point to take several trips to the range throughout the year, just to make sure that the guns I'm hunting with are still dialed in with the load I will be hunting with.
I've heard that IMR8208XBR is supposed to be temp insensitive, cfe223 makes no such claims.


Edited by reloader326 (11/07/18 12:34 PM)
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#3170539 - 11/07/18 12:34 PM Re: Temperature sensitivities for powders [Re: Hcboy]
SnowmanMo Offline
Director/Moderator

Registered: 09/23/08
Posts: 3270
Loc: Phoenix, Az
Originally Posted By: Hcboy
Iím curious if thereís any websites or somewhere on this forum that has information on powder temperature sensitivity? Iím mostly interested in the temp sensitivity in cfe 223 and 8202 xbr. Does anybody know how susceptible these powders are in the cold? Living in North Dakota itís something I want to be aware of and avoid developing loads that are prone to this. Thanks


Someone over on 68forums.com posted this chart. You might be able to find a factory temp sensitivity chart from a manufacturer.
download (1) by Jason Mosler, on Flickr
_________________________


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#3170577 - 11/07/18 07:17 PM Re: Temperature sensitivities for powders [Re: Hcboy]
EMP3 Offline
Seasoned Member

Registered: 10/18/18
Posts: 142
Loc: So Cal
I'm no powder expert. I do believe powder "sensitivity" is more marketing gimmick than reality. I've killed big game at freezing temps and a shirt sleeve elk rut hunt. Temps didn't affect accuracy.

There's an old fishermen saying: fishing tackle is designed to catch fishermen. I can trout fish the Western USA with a half-dozen lures. I can offshore fish for big tune with a couple. I learned the expensive way: I have tackle boxes full of stuff that has never touched water.

I'm new to predator/small game hunting. I've bought a pound of IMR-4198 for my brand stanking new Triple Deuce. I have a feeling it'll be the only powder I'll need. I can load my big game rifles with only H-4831 & be content.

Just my opinion, and I ain't a powder expert. I merely know what works.


Edited by EMP3 (11/07/18 07:18 PM)

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#3170581 - 11/07/18 07:44 PM Re: Temperature sensitivities for powders [Re: Hcboy]
204 AR Online
Die Hard Member with a vengeance

Registered: 01/31/10
Posts: 4578
Loc: Nebraska
Originally Posted By: Hcboy
Iím curious if thereís any websites or somewhere on this forum that has information on powder temperature sensitivity? Iím mostly interested in the temp sensitivity in cfe 223 and 8202 xbr. Does anybody know how susceptible these powders are in the cold? Living in North Dakota itís something I want to be aware of and avoid developing loads that are prone to this. Thanks


I wanted to know about 8208 so I tested it. I loaded 5 in a mag and threw it in the freezer for awhile. And threw another mag in the oven, checking it often, till it was just fairly warm. There was quite a difference in speeds, I'm thinking 80 fps but can't remember for sure, I just know it was more than I was expecting.

I don't remember seeing any difference in accuracy, so the only problem would be with your dope on longish shots.
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#3170695 - 11/08/18 02:58 PM Re: Temperature sensitivities for powders [Re: SnowmanMo]
Hcboy Offline
Predator Master

Registered: 02/11/18
Posts: 81
Loc: North dakota
Wow thank you gentlemen.

Originally Posted By: SnowmanMo
Originally Posted By: Hcboy
Iím curious if thereís any websites or somewhere on this forum that has information on powder temperature sensitivity? Iím mostly interested in the temp sensitivity in cfe 223 and 8202 xbr. Does anybody know how susceptible these powders are in the cold? Living in North Dakota itís something I want to be aware of and avoid developing loads that are prone to this. Thanks


Someone over on 68forums.com posted this chart. You might be able to find a factory temp sensitivity chart from a manufacturer.
download (1) by Jason Mosler, on Flickr

This shows a pretty significant drop for cfe 223 if Iím reading it right.

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#3170710 - 11/08/18 05:02 PM Re: Temperature sensitivities for powders [Re: EMP3]
Rock Knocker Offline
Die Hard Member III

Registered: 12/29/11
Posts: 3036
Loc: Buffalo, MN
Originally Posted By: EMP3
I've bought a pound of IMR-4198 for my brand stanking new Triple Deuce. I have a feeling it'll be the only powder I'll need. I can load my big game rifles with only H-4831 & be content.


Hodgdon 4831 is very temperature stable, and IMR4198 is pretty good also, that's why you can use them year round with zero problem. If you were using temperature sensitive powders you would see a difference in climates that swing over 110 degrees.

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#3170730 - 11/08/18 07:04 PM Re: Temperature sensitivities for powders [Re: EMP3]
reb8600 Offline
Global Moderator

Registered: 10/13/04
Posts: 10733
Loc: Morgan, Utah
Originally Posted By: EMP3
I'm no powder expert. I do believe powder "sensitivity" is more marketing gimmick than reality. I've killed big game at freezing temps and a shirt sleeve elk rut hunt. Temps didn't affect accuracy.


Temperature sensitivity is not a gimmick. I have seen some big differences in loads worked up in the winter then shot in the summer with some powders.

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#3170737 - 11/08/18 07:25 PM Re: Temperature sensitivities for powders [Re: Hcboy]
GLShooter Offline
PM Sponsor

Registered: 01/09/05
Posts: 4923
Loc: AZ
748 is the powder of the devil when it gets hot. I've blown more primers with it in OKLAHOMA/ARIZONA heat with cool temp loads than everything else. I don't load anything with it now.

Greg
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#3170739 - 11/08/18 07:29 PM Re: Temperature sensitivities for powders [Re: reb8600]
Bob_Atl Offline
Die Hard Member III

Registered: 01/09/15
Posts: 2059
Loc: in the field, or not..
powder temp stability is an issue, apparently more so for some than others.
picked this up off the www so it has to be right, right?
_______________________________________________________

HS-6 1.21 fps per *
H110/W296 1.24 fps per *
Imr4227 1.17fps per *
Lil' Gun 1.31 fps per *
RL10x .71 fps per*
Benchmark .44 fps per *
Imr3031 .73 fps per *
Imr8208xbr .59 fps per *
H4895 .23 fps per *
Alliant Varmint pro .89 fps per *
Alliant AR comp .77 fps per *
Varget .19 fps per *
W748 1.32 fps per *
Imr4064 .53 fps per *
Ramshot Tac .91 fps per *
CFE223 1.72 fps per *
Imr4895 .87 fps per *
AA4064 1.11 fps per *
AA2520 .98 fps per *
RL15 1.52 fps per * from 50* and up
PP2000MR .99 fps per *
Imr4320 1.32 fps per *
Ramshot Biggame .98 fps per *
H380 1.44 fps per *
VV N150 1.08 fps per *
H414/W760 1.42 fps per *
Imr4350 .64 fps per *
AA4350 .47 fps per *
H4350 .29 fps per *
RL17 1.42 fps per *
Hybrid 100v .78 fps per *
RL19 1.61 fps per *
VV N160 1.24 fps per *
Imr4831 1.19 fps per *
Ramshot Hunter .86 fps per *
H4831 .36 fps per *
RL22 1.71 fps per *
Imr7828 1.36 fps per *
Magpro 1.01 fps per *
H1000 .21 fps per *
RL25 1.59 fps per *
Ramshot Magnum .87 fps per *
Retumbo .49 fps per *
US869 1.68 fps per *
H50bmg 1.64 fps per *




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#3170752 - 11/08/18 08:48 PM Re: Temperature sensitivities for powders [Re: Hcboy]
Hellgate Offline
Seasoned Member

Registered: 08/28/12
Posts: 290
Loc: Orygun
Same experience as GLShooter with 748. Worked up max loads in the cool of winter (in the 40s) blew primers & seized up a bolt on my Rem 788 shooting sage rats in the hot summer. I still use 788 but not near max loads.
_________________________
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With over 15 percussion revolvers I've been called the Imelda Marcos of Cap & Ball

If you do not subscribe to a newspaper you are uninformed. If you do subscribe to a newspaper you are misinformed. Mark Twain

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#3170768 - 11/08/18 09:40 PM Re: Temperature sensitivities for powders [Re: Hellgate]
19grizz69 Offline
Seasoned Member

Registered: 01/06/10
Posts: 206
Loc: montana
EMP3 i can tell you have never used h380 power this is very temp. sensitive.the difference in my 243 at 50 degrees and at 15 below is around 500 fps.Living in Montana i have the ability to shot in temps. from 40 below to 100 above . i have pages of loads shot at many different temps. all power are effected by temp.

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