What causes a flyer?

Great topic and comments,I feel better you folks provided me with some much needed therapy for my crappy shooting (it's me not the ammo or rifle ).
 
Originally Posted By: pyscodogSo human error is 90% of the reason for a shot to go out of the group....Then if you took the human out of the equation, every shot should go through the same hole. Right???

Sure, a rifle or bad load can cause a flier, but, assuming good equipment and proven load you can write off that excuse for the most part. Sorry, Bill.
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Perfect example of fading concentration causing a flyer:
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Bad case of overconfidence and losing concentration; guess which shot was # 20.
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Regards,
hm
 
Wow is that a pre internet date! Were they called fliers then too?
Not sure when Flier was coined and some may not believe in the terminology but everyone sure knows what your talking about when used in shooting talk. Guess that was the point.
 
I never cross out human error as a problem but when you know the shot was good and its an inch out of the group, tells me maybe it doesn't like the load. This is during load work, not a proven accurate load. If its a good proven load and you throw one, then yes its probably shooter error.
 
Originally Posted By: pyscodogI never cross out human error as a problem but when you know the shot was good and its an inch out of the group, tells me maybe it doesn't like the load. This is during load work, not a proven accurate load. If its a good proven load and you throw one, then yes its probably shooter error.

This is what happened to me during new load testing a .22-250 and was very surprised when a couple were way off. Not afraid to acknowledge a poor shot, am suspicious of another reason.
 
Originally Posted By: tripod3Wow is that a pre internet date! Were they called fliers then too?
Darn, Mark, you're makin' me feel old, but I guess I do pre-date lots of stuff, now that you mention it.
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Originally Posted By: tripod3Not sure when Flier was coined and some may not believe in the terminology but everyone sure knows what your talking about when used in shooting talk. Guess that was the point.

They've been called flyers as long as I can remember. Never gave it much thought, but actually, flyers can have lots of causes. Have had "unexplained" flyers but they are much more rare than than those that I have to own up to as mine.

Assuming a good rifle and proven load, in position shooting, 1)concentration, 2)failure to maintain a natural aim point, 3)trigger control (hurrying the shot), or 4)"admiring the sights" (holding the shot too long trying to get that perfect sight picture) probably caused 99% of my flyers in that order.

I'm not a very good shot off the bench, but I think most of my flyers there are slightly different hold or position on the rifle from shot to shot and/or natural aim point spoils more groups than any other for me. Of course that concentration is a bugger too.

Originally Posted By: pyscodogI never cross out human error as a problem but when you know the shot was good and its an inch out of the group, tells me maybe it doesn't like the load.

Absolutely, Bill. If you call the shot good and it is a flyer, then you can look at equipment or ammo. I was taking a good rifle, good load for granted, for sure.

Regards,
hm





 
I'm working loads for a new 280AI. Its just a light varmint contour barrel or maybe heavy sporter and it heats up QUICK!!! From a cold barrel to the third shot, its hot. I keep wondering about barrel heat. Could be seating depth, could be primer, and, it could be me. I got to figure something out.
 
Moa is "about" 1 inch at 100 yards 2 at 200 etc. I think that's pretty common knowledge
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But. Think about how far 100 yards is. And then mentally take a 1 inch piece of paper and cut a tiny slice (1/100th) of it with every yard as you walk back 100 yards. How big is that piece of paper at the end? That 1/100th of an inch is how much variation needed from 1 shot to the next to have a inch 'flier'.

So what is more likely, that your human body which is CONSTANTLY moving and twitching and jerking around has somehow moved the end of a 3 foot lever that same teeny tiny amount, or some imperceptible and immeasurable flaw in a bullet has caused a bullet to be almost magically moved an inch away from the others? At seriously long ranges I can buy bullet variation but at 100 yards with a flight time of a nothingneth of a second... not so much.

Which makes some of the record breaking groups at omg ranges even more amazing, because short of mechanical assistance I know I could never come close, on my best day and shooting their guns.

Personally I've had bad range days, but never had a bad grouping once I put the gun in a vice and to date have never seen a 'flier'. I've missed, more than once and I'm pretty much guaranteed to ALWAYS throw 1 out of a group. If I'm doing 10, I'll have 9 geat. 5, will have 4 etc. It's me, always me.

Which is why now I only shoot 1 shot groups, which are always amazing!
 
The way I understand (read about) shimming a scope is, One thousand shim
will give one inch of elevation at 100 yds. 10 thousand shim, 10 inches at 100yds.

Of course that probably depends on the distance between the rings.

So its a wonder that even when I'm shooting off the bench, I can keep
that stock from moving left/right or up/down with each heart beat to make what's
called a group. I do use front rest and rear bag. I try to dial all parallax out too.
 
I think most flyers are shooter errors, but sometimes if a load is just at the edge of an accuracy node the flyer may come from slightly higher or lower velocity.
 
Yep, that 2d shot has blown more perfect groups than I care to
remember!

Has no one other than me ever "knew" the shot was pulled, only
to find that it went into the group, anyway? (The reverse is
also only too true!)

An undiscovered loose ring screw can also make one wonder what
could be going wrong!
 
This Redfield International sight has 1/4 moa clicks and is set @ zero.

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One click up (1/4 moa = .003")

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One click down from zero = .003".

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Thus, a .012" error on sight alignment will cause a 1" "flyer" for most of us (1.047" for those who are real hard holders).
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Regards,
hm
 
I can say that I have gotten better practice. I loaded a bunch of 55gr vmax for a 223 several years ago and they would shoot MOA on a good day, awhile back I dug some out and tried them again and now the groups were .5 - 1MOA. Glad I didn't tear then down. Most shooters will have more "fliers" when shooting from field positions than from a bench. Its not always the ammo.
 
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