17-223 any reason not to build it?

Matthew M-16

New member
Hey guys I’m building a coyote/small game rifle most likely in the ar platform but didn’t wanna limit myself on responses so I posted in firearms. I recently made the leap last month and started the process on a suppressor(silencerco spec war qd). I’m in southern Colorado and have lots of ranches and public land at my disposal. Looking to help a few ranchers out this fall and winter with their predator problems. I contacted dtech about barrels and the turn around is less than a month. Plan on shooting coyotes, red and grey fox, bobcats and the random crow/ prairie dog. 22 1-9 Shilon match bull barrel threaded for asr muzzle break. Wanting to start selling my hides to help fund better equipment to help the ranchers down here and build my brand and rep. Anyone have any input on this caliber and the sizing process. Been reloading about 2 years no wild cats but plan on getting the hornady 17-223 custom die set. And using a spare .223 rem small base set with the stem pulled. Anyone wanna talk me out of it and get a 1-12 ar barrel to shoot 40g .223 Vmax?
 
I won’t talk you out of it. I built one using a BHW barrel. Smart going with the 9 twist, so you can shoot 30gr if you want. The reloading process is not hard once you figure it out. A small base die is not necessary, but if you have it, go for it. All I do is take .223 brass and full length resize it in a die with the stem removed. Make sure to fully resize, camming over on the press handle. Then what I do, which you might be able to get by without,is, I bought a .19-.223 die from James Calhoon and I run the resized .223 brass through it, with the stem removed. Better to neck down in steps, so I go from .224 to .19 and then to .17. The last pass is in the .17-.223 die WITH the stem in place. Whenever I work brass, I use Imperial Sizing Wax. The stuff is great and a tin lasts forever. Whether you do it in 2 or 3 passes, you’ll be fine.
 
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Sounds like a plan to me. I have been a .17 Remington shooter since 1979 and been a big fan ever since. Shot my current one, Remington 700 with a 1/9" Lilja barrel on it just yesterday. Always looking for an excuse to shoot that thing even when the critters are no longer out.

But as much as I love that gun if I was wanting a hot stepping .17 centerfire today it would be dumb to get something other than a .17/223 I think. I mean, good brass is everywhere and cheap as can be. Performance wise the .17 Rem is 100-150 fps or so (big whoop, huh?) more so you may as well say they are pretty much even stephen. I shoot mostly ground squirrels with mine but have never left it home on a prairie dog outing either. Just way too much fun.

Let us know how the baby turns out. I got way too much .17 Rem ammo now to get rid of it all and start new with something else, but I tell everyone the same thing- if you are starting fresh and want a speedy yet economical .17 to shoot then a .17/223 is the way to go. Do it.

Oh, not going to try and talk you out of a 1/12" AR barrel either. Those 40 grain .224" Vmax bullets are the cat's meow for that.
 
Not sure I get what this will do for you that a 17 Rem. wont????? I understand the whole cheap available brass thing...but, cant you buy a lot of 17 Rem. brass for the cost of the reamer alone???
Been down the road with 17's. Best thing I can tell you is if you really have 17 on the brain go with the 17 Fireball. 17 rem, 17-223 are both potential barrel burners if you aren't careful.
 
Not my cup of tea but I'll never tell you not to do it if that's what your wanting. Probably a fun little caliber to shoot and like they have said, brass is everywhere. I just get to many squashed fingers with them tiny little bullets.
 
I'd like to see a 17-222 in an AR. With 17 Rem, you'll be crawling on the ground a lot looking for that expensive brass. I guess I have 17 on the brain. I have a 17 FB, and a 17 AH in addition to the 17-223.
 
I don't know about your "brand", but I would save the 17 barrel for predator control work and have a second rifle(223) for pd and other varmint work. And you might as well get 2(.17) Ar barrels cut at the same time,same reamer and same barrel lot.
 
I run a 17-223 AR for coyotes. My fur buyer was always complaining about bullet holes from a 223. Not exit holes, but entrance.
I do not understand why people say the 17 remington is faster, case capacity should be more on a 17-223. The shoulder is starts farther from the case head than the 17 remington. I run 25's over 4000.

17 remington brass is not always available, it is not cheap when you do find it.

I run a 1-9 BHW barrel, it shoots very well. BUT, if I do not turn the necks, the accuracy is mediocre at best. I resize in one shot through a 17-223 die, I lose a few cases, but who cares. I turn the necks, fire them and then anneal before the next loading.
I did not lose one coyote last year, I killed 28 with the 17. Tiny entrance hole, no exit.
 
17-223 is a great way to avoid the 17Rem brass problems. Especially in an AR15 or Savage DIY switch barrel.

I found my 17Rem w/25gr HPs @ 4000fps were a little rough on grey foxes. But so are 223Rem 40gr Vmax @ 3600fps. Those greys like to split open at the belly and armpits from the dramatic impact, like stepping on a banana until the seams burst. My buddy's 204 isn't much better. All 3 seemed to be hit n miss for damage.

223Rem works perfect for me on coyotes from a 26" barrel, just like the 17Rem. Watch your shot placement and you'll be fine.

223Rem 40gr Vmax slowed down a bit (16" barrel vs 26" barrel) seem to damage foxes a lot less, but is also less effective on coyotes. They'll often hit the ground and then try to raise up and breathe or howl for a moment before expiting. Still drops them, but the velocity loss from a short barrel absolutely takes away from the effectiveness.

223Rem 45gr TSX worked great on both coyotes and foxes, instant DRTs, and small entry/exit.

Those 223 40gr Vmax are wicked accurate little bullets, but if you want MORE speed for squirrels then try the 35gr NTX which are also super accurate and fast. Not the best on the 2 coyotes I shot with them, one had a huge splash entry which paralyzed it but needed a follow up shot.

Bottom line, there's no perfect cartridge for both foxes and coyotes. The closest thing in my experience is a 223Rem with 45gr TSX. Maybe a 50gr TTSX but I haven't had a chance to try those yet.
 
The older I get, the easier I want my reloading. Ackley's are fine but no neck turning and going through two or three steps to make brass for me anymore. Not saying they aren't OK for others, just not for me. I want it easy and hassle free. To many good calibers, bullets and powders out there today that don't need re-invented. JMO and I know others won't agree with me but that's OK too.
 
Originally Posted By: pyscodogThe older I get, the easier I want my reloading. Ackley's are fine but no neck turning and going through two or three steps to make brass for me anymore. Not saying they aren't OK for others, just not for me. I want it easy and hassle free. To many good calibers, bullets and powders out there today that don't need re-invented. JMO and I know others won't agree with me but that's OK too.

I’ll agree with you.
Pick 2 or 3, or even 4 good cartridges, good brass, a couple or three powders, and reamers for when you need new barrels.
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Originally Posted By: 6724I run a 17-223 AR for coyotes. My fur buyer was always complaining about bullet holes from a 223. Not exit holes, but entrance.
I do not understand why people say the 17 remington is faster, case capacity should be more on a 17-223. The shoulder is starts farther from the case head than the 17 remington. I run 25's over 4000.

17 remington brass is not always available, it is not cheap when you do find it.

I run a 1-9 BHW barrel, it shoots very well. BUT, if I do not turn the necks, the accuracy is mediocre at best. I resize in one shot through a 17-223 die, I lose a few cases, but who cares. I turn the necks, fire them and then anneal before the next loading.
I did not lose one coyote last year, I killed 28 with the 17. Tiny entrance hole, no exit.

Spot on^^^^^^^^

I'm a die hard 17Rem fan but the truth is a 17/223 will do everything the 17Rem does without having to put up with the crappy Remington brass.
I put up with the brass for years but it was relatively cheap and always available back then. That's all changed these days so if I was starting over (which I never will at my age) I'd build a 17/223......or even better....a nice bolt gun in 17/222.
 
Originally Posted By: ackleyman They are a labor of love. Bug hole groups with a 17 are very tiny groups!

No doubt about that. And when they are not shooting as well as you know they can that "love" part gets diminished in a hurry!

Of course, as soon as you get them shooting good it's real easy to fall back in love again. Happened to me many times over the last four decades.
 
Thanks for all the responses! This is extremely helpful and exactly what I was looking for. I figure if I’m spending the same on a barrel and dies I might as well help myself on brass cost and this seems most practical besides a 20 practical hahah. Being said I’ll see if I can afford two barrels I know I’ll shoot through my first one just for the thrills of small holes touching holes if I do my part.

First question: cmatera- is it worth the extra money for dies and effort to size in stages like this. I don’t mind loosing some brass in the process that’s why I’m going with a .223 variant.

Second question: 6724- you meantion you turn the necks? Does the brass thicken up to much during the sizing process and become to in even? I’m still what I consider a amateur reloader doing it a little over 2 years. Is this something I’m going to have to learn for this cartridge.

Going to strip down a S&W MP Sport I dislike the set up on. Not a front post fan so gonna throw it on a Anderson lower and upper. And use that as my receiver set for the 17-223 and forgot I had a bca side charging upper in the safe for a new .223 with 1-12 or 1-9. Who makes a decent 1-12 twist?
 
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I wouldn’t bother with the .19 die and extra step. I do it because I’m anal. Definitely not required, and the few pieces of brass you might lose is not worth it.
 
Originally Posted By: cmateraI wouldn’t bother with the .19 die and extra step. I do it because I’m anal. Definitely not required, and the few pieces of brass you might lose is not worth it.

Haha I’m pretty anal as well. At work if it’s not perfect it’s wrong. Same goes with the things I take pride in. My main issue atm besides this is a pricey project I can’t seem to talk myself out of is, I’m new to wildcats mainly reload .223/5.56, 308, 30-06 and 300wm. Have 243 and the main pistol caliber dies just haven’t dived in to that yet. Is neck turning necessary with this and how difficult is it. Obviously I want the best accuracy possible but also wanted a budget easy 17 cal just wanna know what I’m getting myself into. My new card finally got here so I can order my barrel tomorrow as long as I’m gtg on all the info I’m seeking...
 
I thought I already answered this but maybe it was not recieved.
Neck turning? Necessary? If the chamber is loose, maybe not. If the chamber is NOT loose, then yes. Without turning necks the accuracy I get is not good enough for the caliber's intended uses. It also makes for very short brass life as the pressures are inconsistent and often high, it also makes for difficult chambering and unfired cartridge extraction.
So, if you like to fight to get an unfired round out of the chamber, like when you get back to the truck after hunting, if you like the occasional primer loose in the trigger group, or you like mediocre accuracy, or you like to use the formed brass 1 time, then run them as formed.
The round is a good one, just shot my first coyote of the season yesterday with mine, tiny entrance hole, no exit hole. Dead coyote. Sure, you can't shoot them in the guts or lower leg or in the hind quarter and expect them to drop, but hit where you are supposed to and there will be no problems.

If neck turning is too much effort, go with a 17 remington.
 
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