First Peek at the 22-NXS!!
- Thread starter GLShooter
- Start date
Have you and Rich considered taking 6mm Hagar case and going to a 40 degree shoulder and removing any case taper that you can but keeping the same dimensions as 22 Nosler. Sort of a 22 Nosler ai. (22 Nosler ai could still fire 22 Nosler ammo and barrel would have some resale value).
No fire forming just trim 6mm Hagar, size and load and shoot. Might pick up .5 gr of 1 gr the improvement of the NXS. Less case neck turning in future with 40 degree shoulder. Might take a bit more pressure.
Would it have feeding issue, I don’t know.
The developments with 6mm bra with target crowd is causing a quite a stir. Instead of 6mm br blown out to dasher or brx, etc. and all the case forming work. They just took a 6mm br case and ackley improved it to 40 degree shoulder and removed any body taper they could. This “new” cartridge design is 60-100fps slower but is setting a lot of records. Easy to tune they say. Less work to find good load.
The 6mm bra developments sure are interesting.
No fire forming just trim 6mm Hagar, size and load and shoot. Might pick up .5 gr of 1 gr the improvement of the NXS. Less case neck turning in future with 40 degree shoulder. Might take a bit more pressure.
Would it have feeding issue, I don’t know.
The developments with 6mm bra with target crowd is causing a quite a stir. Instead of 6mm br blown out to dasher or brx, etc. and all the case forming work. They just took a 6mm br case and ackley improved it to 40 degree shoulder and removed any body taper they could. This “new” cartridge design is 60-100fps slower but is setting a lot of records. Easy to tune they say. Less work to find good load.
The 6mm bra developments sure are interesting.
Originally Posted By: tcjHave you and Rich considered taking 6mm Hagar case and going to a 40 degree shoulder and removing any case taper that you can but keeping the same dimensions as 22 Nosler. Sort of a 22 Nosler ai. (22 Nosler ai could still fire 22 Nosler ammo and barrel would have some resale value).
No fire forming just trim 6mm Hagar, size and load and shoot. Might pick up .5 gr of 1 gr the improvement of the NXS. Less case neck turning in future with 40 degree shoulder. Might take a bit more pressure.
Would it have feeding issue, I don’t know.
The developments with 6mm bra with target crowd is causing a quite a stir. Instead of 6mm br blown out to dasher or brx, etc. and all the case forming work. They just took a 6mm br case and ackley improved it to 40 degree shoulder and removed any body taper they could. This “new” cartridge design is 60-100fps slower but is setting a lot of records. Easy to tune they say. Less work to find good load.
The 6mm bra developments sure are interesting.
The orginal has a 30* shoulder now so yes if you blew the case out you would gain some there but the 40* wouldn't gain much by itself. With the improvement comes a new set of dreamers and head space gauges along with new dies that will not be cheap or quickly available.
Remember that while we are designing and evaluating the first goal is to have fun and the second is to make them available from a quality barrel maker with as few headaches as possible for us and guys that want to try them. He and I can both fire form and neck turn with the best but just because we can doesn't mean we want to complicate things.
Basically our approach is to keep it simple and use available gear that's not too esoteric. To be realistic the 22X6.8 is a far better approach than the 22 Nosler and the Nosgar gains very very little when distilled down to basic performance. The Nosgar brass scarcity is problematic when stuffing it in a Nosler chamber vs. a basic 22X6.8.
The 22-NXS using all it has lets us step up into 22-250 range without any muss and fuss. Ritch just shot those 5 pieces again for the 6th time and pockets are still very tight and cases show no signs of getting large at the bottom in the non-sized area. That concern has been effectively put to bed. 500 of these cases would appear to be a good plenty for most of us as few are stuck with one rifle.
Just my rambling thoughts on the suggestion. I know a good reamer guy if you want to tackle your own configuration. A little experimentation would be fun but based on more than one of these rodeos. A fist full of Benjamins will change hands and and if you don't get it right the first time those Benjamins turn into one large very quickly.
Greg
No fire forming just trim 6mm Hagar, size and load and shoot. Might pick up .5 gr of 1 gr the improvement of the NXS. Less case neck turning in future with 40 degree shoulder. Might take a bit more pressure.
Would it have feeding issue, I don’t know.
The developments with 6mm bra with target crowd is causing a quite a stir. Instead of 6mm br blown out to dasher or brx, etc. and all the case forming work. They just took a 6mm br case and ackley improved it to 40 degree shoulder and removed any body taper they could. This “new” cartridge design is 60-100fps slower but is setting a lot of records. Easy to tune they say. Less work to find good load.
The 6mm bra developments sure are interesting.
The orginal has a 30* shoulder now so yes if you blew the case out you would gain some there but the 40* wouldn't gain much by itself. With the improvement comes a new set of dreamers and head space gauges along with new dies that will not be cheap or quickly available.
Remember that while we are designing and evaluating the first goal is to have fun and the second is to make them available from a quality barrel maker with as few headaches as possible for us and guys that want to try them. He and I can both fire form and neck turn with the best but just because we can doesn't mean we want to complicate things.
Basically our approach is to keep it simple and use available gear that's not too esoteric. To be realistic the 22X6.8 is a far better approach than the 22 Nosler and the Nosgar gains very very little when distilled down to basic performance. The Nosgar brass scarcity is problematic when stuffing it in a Nosler chamber vs. a basic 22X6.8.
The 22-NXS using all it has lets us step up into 22-250 range without any muss and fuss. Ritch just shot those 5 pieces again for the 6th time and pockets are still very tight and cases show no signs of getting large at the bottom in the non-sized area. That concern has been effectively put to bed. 500 of these cases would appear to be a good plenty for most of us as few are stuck with one rifle.
Just my rambling thoughts on the suggestion. I know a good reamer guy if you want to tackle your own configuration. A little experimentation would be fun but based on more than one of these rodeos. A fist full of Benjamins will change hands and and if you don't get it right the first time those Benjamins turn into one large very quickly.
Greg
steve garrett
Active member
Originally Posted By: tcjHave you and Rich considered taking 6mm Hagar case and going to a 40 degree shoulder and removing any case taper that you can but keeping the same dimensions as 22 Nosler. Sort of a 22 Nosler ai. (22 Nosler ai could still fire 22 Nosler ammo and barrel would have some resale value).
No fire forming just trim 6mm Hagar, size and load and shoot. Might pick up .5 gr of 1 gr the improvement of the NXS. Less case neck turning in future with 40 degree shoulder. Might take a bit more pressure.
Would it have feeding issue, I don’t know.
The developments with 6mm bra with target crowd is causing a quite a stir. Instead of 6mm br blown out to dasher or brx, etc. and all the case forming work. They just took a 6mm br case and ackley improved it to 40 degree shoulder and removed any body taper they could. This “new” cartridge design is 60-100fps slower but is setting a lot of records. Easy to tune they say. Less work to find good load.
The 6mm bra developments sure are interesting.
No what needs to happen is we need to have. The 6bra case or even the dasher with plug and play parts readily available for consumers. It’s a short case so it should accommodate heavy or light bullets. It also has the compacity to make it compete with a 22-250 on equal terms. Yes it’s beendone and yeah some say it works ok in a standard ar 15, but others complain the bolt and barrel extension is too thin. Haven’t heard of one blowing up yet though
No fire forming just trim 6mm Hagar, size and load and shoot. Might pick up .5 gr of 1 gr the improvement of the NXS. Less case neck turning in future with 40 degree shoulder. Might take a bit more pressure.
Would it have feeding issue, I don’t know.
The developments with 6mm bra with target crowd is causing a quite a stir. Instead of 6mm br blown out to dasher or brx, etc. and all the case forming work. They just took a 6mm br case and ackley improved it to 40 degree shoulder and removed any body taper they could. This “new” cartridge design is 60-100fps slower but is setting a lot of records. Easy to tune they say. Less work to find good load.
The 6mm bra developments sure are interesting.
No what needs to happen is we need to have. The 6bra case or even the dasher with plug and play parts readily available for consumers. It’s a short case so it should accommodate heavy or light bullets. It also has the compacity to make it compete with a 22-250 on equal terms. Yes it’s beendone and yeah some say it works ok in a standard ar 15, but others complain the bolt and barrel extension is too thin. Haven’t heard of one blowing up yet though
Good reply. Looks like a pile of Benjamins to do... you are right.
Still the inexpensive way in the past to get a bit of performance increase was to take an existing cartridge in off the shelf barrel and ackley improve it. Enough barrel makers still make 22 Nosler barrels and used barrels are out there for less change. Once you have the reamer and a set of dies made or modified....then....
Second when you are finished you have a barrel that factory ammo will still work in and better resale value.
What intrigued me was with good brass (you mentioned in another post that Starline might make 6mm Hagar brass, any update on that? Or could 6.8 basic starline brass work?) and the 40 degree shoulder on the 6mm br made the 6mm bra.
The result is a case that is easy to make, easy to tune, and “more accurate” in the right hands. So you give up the extra velocity of the 6mm dasher for 6mm bra (or or in this case 22 nxs and maybe, just maybe,.... get better accuracy and ease of reloading and tuning loads and you can still fire factory ammo.)
I guess I have been reading too many forum posts on the 6mm bra.
Still the inexpensive way in the past to get a bit of performance increase was to take an existing cartridge in off the shelf barrel and ackley improve it. Enough barrel makers still make 22 Nosler barrels and used barrels are out there for less change. Once you have the reamer and a set of dies made or modified....then....
Second when you are finished you have a barrel that factory ammo will still work in and better resale value.
What intrigued me was with good brass (you mentioned in another post that Starline might make 6mm Hagar brass, any update on that? Or could 6.8 basic starline brass work?) and the 40 degree shoulder on the 6mm br made the 6mm bra.
The result is a case that is easy to make, easy to tune, and “more accurate” in the right hands. So you give up the extra velocity of the 6mm dasher for 6mm bra (or or in this case 22 nxs and maybe, just maybe,.... get better accuracy and ease of reloading and tuning loads and you can still fire factory ammo.)
I guess I have been reading too many forum posts on the 6mm bra.
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Originally Posted By: steve garrettOriginally Posted By: tcjHave you and Rich considered taking 6mm Hagar case and going to a 40 degree shoulder and removing any case taper that you can but keeping the same dimensions as 22 Nosler. Sort of a 22 Nosler ai. (22 Nosler ai could still fire 22 Nosler ammo and barrel would have some resale value).
No fire forming just trim 6mm Hagar, size and load and shoot. Might pick up .5 gr of 1 gr the improvement of the NXS. Less case neck turning in future with 40 degree shoulder. Might take a bit more pressure.
Would it have feeding issue, I don’t know.
The developments with 6mm bra with target crowd is causing a quite a stir. Instead of 6mm br blown out to dasher or brx, etc. and all the case forming work. They just took a 6mm br case and ackley improved it to 40 degree shoulder and removed any body taper they could. This “new” cartridge design is 60-100fps slower but is setting a lot of records. Easy to tune they say. Less work to find good load.
The 6mm bra developments sure are interesting.
No what needs to happen is we need to have. The 6bra case or even the dasher with plug and play parts readily available for consumers. It’s a short case so it should accommodate heavy or light bullets. It also has the compacity to make it compete with a 22-250 on equal terms. Yes it’s beendone and yeah some say it works ok in a standard ar 15, but others complain the bolt and barrel extension is too thin. Haven’t heard of one blowing up yet though
I know of some AR's using a 473 bolt that came unglued. They were not pretty. Not my idea of just running a reamer blithely and loading to the nuts.
You're pretty talented Steve. Start writing checks and make it happen instead of continually lamenting what you think is perfect. Fish; cut bait or get back on the dock.
Greg
No fire forming just trim 6mm Hagar, size and load and shoot. Might pick up .5 gr of 1 gr the improvement of the NXS. Less case neck turning in future with 40 degree shoulder. Might take a bit more pressure.
Would it have feeding issue, I don’t know.
The developments with 6mm bra with target crowd is causing a quite a stir. Instead of 6mm br blown out to dasher or brx, etc. and all the case forming work. They just took a 6mm br case and ackley improved it to 40 degree shoulder and removed any body taper they could. This “new” cartridge design is 60-100fps slower but is setting a lot of records. Easy to tune they say. Less work to find good load.
The 6mm bra developments sure are interesting.
No what needs to happen is we need to have. The 6bra case or even the dasher with plug and play parts readily available for consumers. It’s a short case so it should accommodate heavy or light bullets. It also has the compacity to make it compete with a 22-250 on equal terms. Yes it’s beendone and yeah some say it works ok in a standard ar 15, but others complain the bolt and barrel extension is too thin. Haven’t heard of one blowing up yet though
I know of some AR's using a 473 bolt that came unglued. They were not pretty. Not my idea of just running a reamer blithely and loading to the nuts.
You're pretty talented Steve. Start writing checks and make it happen instead of continually lamenting what you think is perfect. Fish; cut bait or get back on the dock.
Greg
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steve garrett
Active member
Originally Posted By: GLShooterOriginally Posted By: steve garrettOriginally Posted By: tcjHave you and Rich considered taking 6mm Hagar case and going to a 40 degree shoulder and removing any case taper that you can but keeping the same dimensions as 22 Nosler. Sort of a 22 Nosler ai. (22 Nosler ai could still fire 22 Nosler ammo and barrel would have some resale value).
No fire forming just trim 6mm Hagar, size and load and shoot. Might pick up .5 gr of 1 gr the improvement of the NXS. Less case neck turning in future with 40 degree shoulder. Might take a bit more pressure.
Would it have feeding issue, I don’t know.
The developments with 6mm bra with target crowd is causing a quite a stir. Instead of 6mm br blown out to dasher or brx, etc. and all the case forming work. They just took a 6mm br case and ackley improved it to 40 degree shoulder and removed any body taper they could. This “new” cartridge design is 60-100fps slower but is setting a lot of records. Easy to tune they say. Less work to find good load.
The 6mm bra developments sure are interesting.
No what needs to happen is we need to have. The 6bra case or even the dasher with plug and play parts readily available for consumers. It’s a short case so it should accommodate heavy or light bullets. It also has the compacity to make it compete with a 22-250 on equal terms. Yes it’s beendone and yeah some say it works ok in a standard ar 15, but others complain the bolt and barrel extension is too thin. Haven’t heard of one blowing up yet though
I know of some AR's using a 473 bolt that came unglued. They were not pretty. Not my idea of just running a reamer blithely and loading to the nuts.
You're pretty talented Steve. Start writing checks and make it happen instead of continually lamenting what you think is perfect. Fish; cut bait or get back on the dock.
Greg
They make the wssm work in an ar 15, a .473 case should be easy, I think ar performance, does them. But only in limited amounts and I don’t know what people do about mags, again plug and play parts aren’t really there. I do support all the wildcats like this nxs etc. 223 is boring other stuff is better.
No fire forming just trim 6mm Hagar, size and load and shoot. Might pick up .5 gr of 1 gr the improvement of the NXS. Less case neck turning in future with 40 degree shoulder. Might take a bit more pressure.
Would it have feeding issue, I don’t know.
The developments with 6mm bra with target crowd is causing a quite a stir. Instead of 6mm br blown out to dasher or brx, etc. and all the case forming work. They just took a 6mm br case and ackley improved it to 40 degree shoulder and removed any body taper they could. This “new” cartridge design is 60-100fps slower but is setting a lot of records. Easy to tune they say. Less work to find good load.
The 6mm bra developments sure are interesting.
No what needs to happen is we need to have. The 6bra case or even the dasher with plug and play parts readily available for consumers. It’s a short case so it should accommodate heavy or light bullets. It also has the compacity to make it compete with a 22-250 on equal terms. Yes it’s beendone and yeah some say it works ok in a standard ar 15, but others complain the bolt and barrel extension is too thin. Haven’t heard of one blowing up yet though
I know of some AR's using a 473 bolt that came unglued. They were not pretty. Not my idea of just running a reamer blithely and loading to the nuts.
You're pretty talented Steve. Start writing checks and make it happen instead of continually lamenting what you think is perfect. Fish; cut bait or get back on the dock.
Greg
They make the wssm work in an ar 15, a .473 case should be easy, I think ar performance, does them. But only in limited amounts and I don’t know what people do about mags, again plug and play parts aren’t really there. I do support all the wildcats like this nxs etc. 223 is boring other stuff is better.
The WSSM is not done with a standard bolt and BE. More beef to make it safe.
Plug and play isn't going to happen. If you want something to meet your needs go find a gunsmith that will do custom work and then put your own blood sweat and tears into it.
If you're waiting on someone to hand you something that is truly plug and play to your criteria your just wasting your time.
Ritch and I are working to get outstanding performance out of these little cases and have been pretty successful in our endeavors. The designs aren't esoteric but we quit wishing our life away years ago when we teamed up. Nothing stopping anyone else from doing the same. All it takes is some careful reasoning and experimentation along with a huge amount of networking with industry manufacturers and of course those Benjamins. That first shot only costs six or seven.
Oh and one last thing. That networking I mentioned has resulted in some custom made bolts that are not .473 for a cat that most likely will never be done for anyone but Ritch and me. Cost on this one with custom bolts and some wild case forming dies will probably run about $1300 or so. It took me a year to get the bolts made that will allow this one to run. Not easy to do with the design criteria we wanted.
So as I said. Get out the plastic and prepare to invest a year of your spare time. You build it plug and play and I'll buy one.
Greg
Plug and play isn't going to happen. If you want something to meet your needs go find a gunsmith that will do custom work and then put your own blood sweat and tears into it.
If you're waiting on someone to hand you something that is truly plug and play to your criteria your just wasting your time.
Ritch and I are working to get outstanding performance out of these little cases and have been pretty successful in our endeavors. The designs aren't esoteric but we quit wishing our life away years ago when we teamed up. Nothing stopping anyone else from doing the same. All it takes is some careful reasoning and experimentation along with a huge amount of networking with industry manufacturers and of course those Benjamins. That first shot only costs six or seven.
Oh and one last thing. That networking I mentioned has resulted in some custom made bolts that are not .473 for a cat that most likely will never be done for anyone but Ritch and me. Cost on this one with custom bolts and some wild case forming dies will probably run about $1300 or so. It took me a year to get the bolts made that will allow this one to run. Not easy to do with the design criteria we wanted.
So as I said. Get out the plastic and prepare to invest a year of your spare time. You build it plug and play and I'll buy one.
Greg
Huckleberry75
Member
well, that escalated quickly.
I get where steve is coming from on wanting plug and play type parts, don't we all.
Greg is spot on with the old adage of, "TNSTAAFL". If you want something, then be the change and pony up to make it happen or work with the options available and bleepin'deal with it.
As soon as I hear back from Ritch on how his tests with the mid-range weight bullets (65-69gn) with this reamer went I will be ordering a barrel for this hotrod. I have been wanting a 22cm type performance in an AR-15 size platform for a while, as AR10's are too blasted heavy. This looks like it will be close enough to what I was after that I wont bother with the trouble of the other project. Greg and Ritch have really nice results so far and I would much rather support gents putting in the sweat-equity, than buy an off-the-shelf AR10 from the big name guys. Guys like these are far more apt to respond to questions and suggestions than main-stream big names. At least I know my money will go to someone who will appreciate my business.
I get where steve is coming from on wanting plug and play type parts, don't we all.
Greg is spot on with the old adage of, "TNSTAAFL". If you want something, then be the change and pony up to make it happen or work with the options available and bleepin'deal with it.
As soon as I hear back from Ritch on how his tests with the mid-range weight bullets (65-69gn) with this reamer went I will be ordering a barrel for this hotrod. I have been wanting a 22cm type performance in an AR-15 size platform for a while, as AR10's are too blasted heavy. This looks like it will be close enough to what I was after that I wont bother with the trouble of the other project. Greg and Ritch have really nice results so far and I would much rather support gents putting in the sweat-equity, than buy an off-the-shelf AR10 from the big name guys. Guys like these are far more apt to respond to questions and suggestions than main-stream big names. At least I know my money will go to someone who will appreciate my business.
Ritch shot a few last week of various weights but the sun going down and the chronograph blowing over didn't help..lol. What he did tell me was he shot some 69's.IIRC, that were right at 22-250 speeds. He has my 24" and wants to shoot it in parallel so we can get a comparison on the same loads same ammo.
I'm champing at the bit and when he gets it done it'll be my turn to make it scream. Of course he's out hunting coyotes with it as I type right now.
Greg
BTW after six loadings/firings on the brass and it still looks great. Pockets are tight He got 250 cases from me last week so now he can go whole hog on testing. 19 cases don't go far.
I'm champing at the bit and when he gets it done it'll be my turn to make it scream. Of course he's out hunting coyotes with it as I type right now.
Greg
BTW after six loadings/firings on the brass and it still looks great. Pockets are tight He got 250 cases from me last week so now he can go whole hog on testing. 19 cases don't go far.
Huckleberry75
Member
Waiting on GLS or RJ to chime in about updates...while quietly accruing parts & pieces.
Originally Posted By: KahunerThis thread unfortunately just died. What's up with that? I'm following with great interest!!
Any news?
We don't shoot in 40 mph winds or rainstorms..lol. Ritch has been skunked for range time. He has some velocity resting comparisons to do between the 20 and 24 and then the 24 will be shipped to me. We now have more than 18 pieces of brass too..lol
Greg
Any news?
We don't shoot in 40 mph winds or rainstorms..lol. Ritch has been skunked for range time. He has some velocity resting comparisons to do between the 20 and 24 and then the 24 will be shipped to me. We now have more than 18 pieces of brass too..lol
Greg
Huckleberry75
Member
I also sent him 50 of the 62gn Fusions to play with. Should be very similar to the 62gn Gold Dot, giving good penetraion on medium game such as Deer and Antelope for an "all-around" loading.
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The finalized reamer is on order as we speak. Hopefully they will be quick about it. Barrels will be available through Ritch as he is handling all the Tactical Ordnance wildcats. He has been shooting 8 twist. I don't now what else will be available. I can't imagine it being more than two months. He already has orders for four or five uppers right now.
Buy the Hagar brass now. Based on Ritch's testing the brass is showing excellent life. He's on loading #8 on five pieces right now he is using as a test bed for case life. I'm still pushing guys in the industry about another source. It looks positive. If I could just order 6 Hagar brass in a quantity of 25,000 out of my own pocket I would do that.
Greg
Buy the Hagar brass now. Based on Ritch's testing the brass is showing excellent life. He's on loading #8 on five pieces right now he is using as a test bed for case life. I'm still pushing guys in the industry about another source. It looks positive. If I could just order 6 Hagar brass in a quantity of 25,000 out of my own pocket I would do that.
Greg
Originally Posted By: KahunerSpecifically what caliber and from who? What brass manufacture?
? It's a new 22 caliber round done by Ritch using a 6 MM Hagar case necked to 22 caliber using 22 Nolser dies. Barrels will be made by Tactical Ordnance in St. Helens, Oregon. Brass manufacture at this time is Hornady though two others in the industry are expressing interest in making the Hagar brass.
Greg
? It's a new 22 caliber round done by Ritch using a 6 MM Hagar case necked to 22 caliber using 22 Nolser dies. Barrels will be made by Tactical Ordnance in St. Helens, Oregon. Brass manufacture at this time is Hornady though two others in the industry are expressing interest in making the Hagar brass.
Greg
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