55 V-Max Won't Shoot

Originally Posted By: cjclemensI'm trying to get a load dialed in for a lightweight AR I built for coyote hunting. The problem is that I can't seem to get 55 grain the 55 grain V-Max to shoot well. The best I can do is a shade over 1" at 100 yards, but I feel like I should be able to do better than that. So far, I've tried Varget, Benchmark, and TAC. So far, TAC has done the overall best, but it's still not impressive.

So...I've been sitting here scratching my head and trying to figure out what I should try next. Do I give up on the 55 grainers or should I try a faster burning powder like 4198 or Reloader 10x? I also have some concern in the back of my head - I have heard it said that, if a rifle won't shoot a 55 grain v-max, it won't shoot anything. It wasn't an expensive barrel by any means, so if it needs to go in the scrap barrel, I guess I'll just have to take that as a lesson learned.

I vote faster powder like RL10x, AA2015 or AA2230. The slowest powder would be AA2460.
kwg
 
Have you messed with seating depth? I have a Rem 223 barrel turned into an AR barrel that wouldn't shoot any 55 or 53 gr tipped bullet at 2.26", but years later I tried again with stainless mags that allow 2.3", and it was an instant turn-around.
 
What 204 AR said. I took a .30-06 110gr varmint load from 3/4” down to 5/16” by working on the O.A.L. Once I get a decent powder charge I try shorter O.A.L.s to fine tune the load.
 
Originally Posted By: kwg020Originally Posted By: cjclemensI'm trying to get a load dialed in for a lightweight AR I built for coyote hunting. The problem is that I can't seem to get 55 grain the 55 grain V-Max to shoot well. The best I can do is a shade over 1" at 100 yards, but I feel like I should be able to do better than that. So far, I've tried Varget, Benchmark, and TAC. So far, TAC has done the overall best, but it's still not impressive.

So...I've been sitting here scratching my head and trying to figure out what I should try next. Do I give up on the 55 grainers or should I try a faster burning powder like 4198 or Reloader 10x? I also have some concern in the back of my head - I have heard it said that, if a rifle won't shoot a 55 grain v-max, it won't shoot anything. It wasn't an expensive barrel by any means, so if it needs to go in the scrap barrel, I guess I'll just have to take that as a lesson learned.

I vote faster powder like RL10x, AA2015 or AA2230. The slowest powder would be AA2460.
kwg

Barrel length?
 
I just looked back in my load notes from a 14.5" AR I had and I used H4895 and 55 Vmax. I loaded it to 2700 fps and it shot 1/2" 5 shot groups with load testing scope mounted. After load work up installed and used red dot 1X. Bushmaster AK Shorty.
 
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After using them for a couple years I'm not a Vmax fan for coyotes, I wish my barrel didn't shoot them well, it would have saved me some nasty splash damage on pelts.

Consider yourself lucky they dont shoot well and switch to some Gamekings. My 1-8" 16" barrel shoots the 65s in cloverleafs and give consistent non pelt destructing performance whether coyote or fox, quartered through bone or nice and broadside, pin prick in and quarter sized exit no matter what.
 
Have you gone all the way up in charge weight until you see pressure?

If it were me i would keep toying with Bench Mark. Maybe swap primers and use only quality cases. Use your chronograph and go slowly until you see pressure signs, accuracy clearly falling off with increased pressure or velocities above 3000fps in a 16 inch barrel.

I am incapable of load development without a chronograph. I just lay the chrono on the ground about 10 feet in front of me and shoot off my belly. I believe that certain bullets like certain speeds in certain twist rates. I have also seen the effects of primer changes on accuracy and velocity extremes.

If you don't believe it, watch your velocity go up, & ES free fall down with that bottle of TAC powder you have, using WSR primers.

Barrel nut tension, Gas tube alignment (not rubbing) and certain muzzle devices/tensions have proved to throw accurate rifles a curve ball.

Not to mention little tiny, wobbling bullets jumping 1/2 a mile in a hogged out 5.56 chamber with a super fast twist rates.

20 bottles of half full 1lb jugs of powder laying around is not the answer. I would swap bullets before i bought another bottle of powder. If your machine does not like the 55's it might like the 60 grain V-max. Likely a better option for that rifle anyhow.

We all love this stuff.

Please keep us posted on the results. Lots to learn.
 
What arlaunch said except I’ve never used chrono. There is a lot of variation in load books as to maximum load for any given powder or bullet. I work up to where I see increased pressure like primer flattenning (Federals) or extractor marks on the case head. My Mini-14 shows pressure signs in loads 1/2 to 1 grain higher than the AR. Some of my most accurate loads have been at the max but I wont use them because if the temperature of the rifle or ammo goes up then you get problems. To me a max load is when I first see pressure signs. I find a lot of mil spec brass that show high pressure on their first firing. I haven’t seen loads listed for 5.56, just .223.
 
Mine is the same way not to good but the 60gr shoot great.I like the sierra 60 group hp the best small groups and hammer coyotes.
 
I tried 40,50, and 55 GR vmax and nosler ballistic tips out of my POF. No matter what powder charge or grain bullet I used it was like a broken record till I jumped to a heavier bullet. No matter what combo I tried they all shot 1" to 1.1/4" groups consistently. Then I tried a 60 grain vmax. The best group shot a .4". I decided to remove the 4.5lb POF trigger and replace it with a 3lb Timney. The same .4" group load combo now cloverleaves at a 100 yards. The load is 25 GR of benchmark. It shoots dime size groups at 200 yards. Every barrel is different. My load chronied at 2850fps out of my 14.5" barrel. The load DRTs Coyotes and puts a fifty cent sized hole in and out on broadside shots at a 150 yards. It's a load combo that anchors coyotes where they stand. I've tried the same load out of my Remington LTR on one coyote. I hit it facing me in the chest while it was sitting down gazing at me at about a 125/150 yards. It tipped over like a statue and never moved. I couldn't find the entry or exit holes.

I would assume if I went back and tested the other loads they would shoot under MOA but I'm happy with the heavier bullets performance on coyotes.


My LTR likes benchmark as well. It will shoot a .2" with 25.2 GR and 25. GR witht He vmax so I can use the POF ammo in it. The LTR will also cloverleaf with 40 GR NBT with benchmark. I think it was around the 25-25.5 GR charge mark. I'd stick with benchmark.

I believe my LTR has a 1/9 twist and my POF I think is a 1/8 twist. I want to try 60 GR NBT but after getting good groups with the vmax I called it done.
 
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Originally Posted By: DultimatpredatorI tried 40,50, and 55 GR vmax and nosler ballistic tips out of my POF. No matter what powder charge or grain bullet I used it was like a broken record till I jumped to a heavier bullet. No matter what combo I tried they all shot 1" to 1.1/4" groups consistently. Then I tried a 60 grain vmax. The best group shot a .4". I decided to remove the 4.5lb POF trigger and replace it with a 3lb Timney. The same .4" group load combo now cloverleaves at a 100 yards. The load is 25 GR of benchmark. It shoots dime size groups at 200 yards. Every barrel is different. My load chronied at 2850fps out of my 14.5" barrel. The load DRTs Coyotes and puts a fifty cent sized hole in and out on broadside shots at a 150 yards. It's a load combo that anchors coyotes where they stand. I've tried the same load out of my Remington LTR on one coyote. I hit it facing me in the chest while it was sitting down gazing at me at about a 125/150 yards. It tipped over like a statue and never moved. I couldn't find the entry or exit holes.

I would assume if I went back and tested the other loads they would shoot under MOA but I'm happy with the heavier bullets performance on coyotes.


My LTR likes benchmark as well. It will shoot a .2" with 25.2 GR and 25. GR witht He vmax so I can use the POF ammo in it. The LTR will also cloverleaf with 40 GR NBT with benchmark. I think it was around the 25-25.5 GR charge mark. I'd stick with benchmark.

I believe my LTR has a 1/9 twist and my POF I think is a 1/8 twist. I want to try 60 GR NBT but after getting good groups with the vmax I called it done.

I have one last set of test loads to throw at this rifle with the 55 grain V-Max. After that, I think I'm gonna go ahead and try the 53 or 60's as has been suggested. If those don't work, I may just load up some Sierra Game Kings just for kicks and giggles. I think I was just getting a little frustrated for no good reason. I guess I needed the encouragement to keep at it. I'm hoping I have time to test some H4198 this weekend. After that, I may just flip a coin to see what's next.
 
barrels can be funny about what they like. the 30-06 is supposed to shine with 165 gr bullets for example, but mine doesn't like them. no problems getting accuracy with 125, 150 and 180 gr bullets but what I tried with 165's just sucked.
 
Originally Posted By: cjclemensOriginally Posted By: DultimatpredatorI tried 40,50, and 55 GR vmax and nosler ballistic tips out of my POF. No matter what powder charge or grain bullet I used it was like a broken record till I jumped to a heavier bullet. No matter what combo I tried they all shot 1" to 1.1/4" groups consistently. Then I tried a 60 grain vmax. The best group shot a .4". I decided to remove the 4.5lb POF trigger and replace it with a 3lb Timney. The same .4" group load combo now cloverleaves at a 100 yards. The load is 25 GR of benchmark. It shoots dime size groups at 200 yards. Every barrel is different. My load chronied at 2850fps out of my 14.5" barrel. The load DRTs Coyotes and puts a fifty cent sized hole in and out on broadside shots at a 150 yards. It's a load combo that anchors coyotes where they stand. I've tried the same load out of my Remington LTR on one coyote. I hit it facing me in the chest while it was sitting down gazing at me at about a 125/150 yards. It tipped over like a statue and never moved. I couldn't find the entry or exit holes.

I would assume if I went back and tested the other loads they would shoot under MOA but I'm happy with the heavier bullets performance on coyotes.


My LTR likes benchmark as well. It will shoot a .2" with 25.2 GR and 25. GR witht He vmax so I can use the POF ammo in it. The LTR will also cloverleaf with 40 GR NBT with benchmark. I think it was around the 25-25.5 GR charge mark. I'd stick with benchmark.

I believe my LTR has a 1/9 twist and my POF I think is a 1/8 twist. I want to try 60 GR NBT but after getting good groups with the vmax I called it done.

I have one last set of test loads to throw at this rifle with the 55 grain V-Max. After that, I think I'm gonna go ahead and try the 53 or 60's as has been suggested. If those don't work, I may just load up some Sierra Game Kings just for kicks and giggles. I think I was just getting a little frustrated for no good reason. I guess I needed the encouragement to keep at it. I'm hoping I have time to test some H4198 this weekend. After that, I may just flip a coin to see what's next.

I was pretty riled up till I found a load my $2300.00 POF liked so I feel your pain. I'd tell you to try 60 gr vmax and NBT. Even though I never tried the 60 gr noslers I can bet they will shoot tight. NBT always outshot vmax bullets for me.

Here's my post with groups:

http://www.predatormastersforums.com/for...4963&page=1
 
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