What causes a flyer?

tripod3

New member
Upon asking lifetime shooters and loaders and some with a lifetime in the shooting industry I have received many different answers.
I am still asking.
 
I've been doing this fora long time and most of the flyers I see are shooter induced( I refer to them as Brain F-rts ). I've held out brass that was the flyer and almost all weighed the same as the rest of the brass and visual inspection could reveal no variation. I weigh all my match ammo charges but not all my hunting ammo so there could be a slight variation in drops, but I look in each shell to check powder level before inserting a bullet. I pick up every bullet to insert it so a deformed bullet isn't the problem (I have found different weight bullets in the box ie. 55 gr in a box of 50gr they are easy to spot as they are enough different to notice). When I seat bullets if one seats much easier than the others I hold that round out of the box.

It is pretty hard to diagnose one flyer out of a group.

 
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As AWS said, I think it comes down mainly to the shooter. I have shot some great groups without flyers and then I toss one. I can get impatient or even focus too hard. It is real easy to do when using an AR or other semi-automatic rifle. I think that there may be too many variables to find that one answer. But it sure is fun to try...
 
I agree the shooter can cause them and often I know before even looking at the target.
Yesterday I shot some factory loads and some handloads for testing with new components.
Setup on a bench, in the bags, over the chrony, 2 mph wind, and kept track as I went.
Both loads had a flyer with the handloads having two. After looking at all the info one thing stood out, the flyers all had the lowest of 5 group reading on the chrono.
 
I don't believe there is any such thing as a flyer.

But, define "flyer" for me, maybe I'll change my mind.

- DAA
 
Originally Posted By: tripod3I agree the shooter can cause them and often I know before even looking at the target.
Yesterday I shot some factory loads and some handloads for testing with new components.
Setup on a bench, in the bags, over the chrony, 2 mph wind, and kept track as I went.
Both loads had a flyer with the handloads having two. After looking at all the info one thing stood out, the flyers all had the lowest of 5 group reading on the chrono.

You may be onto something there. I don't chrono every round. But that would be one of the variables that could be responsible for them.
 
What most people call a flyer isn’t really a “flyer” as described when the term was coined. I remember reading about it years ago. A shot 1/2” outside a group is just a bad shot. Muscling the rear bag, shooting from a bipod, poor technique etc.

I have only seen one or two real “flyers” over a [beeep] ton of shooting. I once had a shot like 15” out of a group with a 7-08. I had another about 9” outside with a 223. My guess for both of them is poor bullet quality. Never know though, could have hit a bug or something as well.

Usually, a 3 and 2 load needs work. A 4 and 1 is almost always the shooter.
 
Originally Posted By: tripod3Upon asking lifetime shooters and loaders and some with a lifetime in the shooting industry I have received many different answers.
I am still asking.

A “flyer” is a bad shot made by 99.9% of shooters who don’t have the cojones to admit they could possibly make a bad shot.
 
Originally Posted By: kswaterfowlMe. I cause flyers in my rifles.

I think that happens way less than most people think. I have had more often than not when shooting an accurate rifle, a yanked or what I thought should be a flyer and the bullet hammers its way right into the group. basically I thought I caused a flyer and it wasn't as bad or really didn't show as a flyer in the group.

I also feel its not that hard to shoot groups at 100 yards as long as your rest is steady. I think with a steady rest pretty much anyone that is healthy without a medical condition can shoot .5 moa or less if the gun is capable.
 
Originally Posted By: fw707Originally Posted By: tripod3Upon asking lifetime shooters and loaders and some with a lifetime in the shooting industry I have received many different answers.
I am still asking.

A “flyer” is a bad shot made by 99.9% of shooters who don’t have the cojones to admit they could possibly make a bad shot.

As Jeff said, 99.9 % = lapse in concentration or different position/hold on rifle from shot to shot.
Speaking for myself only; have enough problems accounting for my own flyers, let alone anyone else's.
unsure.gif


Regards,
hm
 
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Shot lots of benchrest over the years. Throwing one out of your group is usually do to misreading the condition or poor technique. It's amazing how much affect a change in wind direction can cause with a 22 or 6mm bullet. Mirage can be another factor. The only nut you can't tighten is the nut behind the trigger.
 
Count me a non believer. I would call a flyer a shot that is "outside" what you are calling your group for no readily apparent reason. In my perception of reality a shot that is "outside" of your group was caused by something shooter error, inconsistent components, differnt weather conditions etc etc. It is not random there is a reason why that flyer is there and more often than not in my view its because the guy pulling the trigger blew it.
 
I would say most times it is the shooter. I do it myself. I also believe something inconsistent with the load on some. Several times I had a good group going and sent one out of the group and knew it was my fault.
 
So human error is 90% of the reason for a shot to go out of the group....Then if you took the human out of the equation, every shot should go through the same hole. Right???
 
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