55 V-Max Won't Shoot

C

cjclemens

New member
I'm trying to get a load dialed in for a lightweight AR I built for coyote hunting. The problem is that I can't seem to get 55 grain the 55 grain V-Max to shoot well. The best I can do is a shade over 1" at 100 yards, but I feel like I should be able to do better than that. So far, I've tried Varget, Benchmark, and TAC. So far, TAC has done the overall best, but it's still not impressive.

So...I've been sitting here scratching my head and trying to figure out what I should try next. Do I give up on the 55 grainers or should I try a faster burning powder like 4198 or Reloader 10x? I also have some concern in the back of my head - I have heard it said that, if a rifle won't shoot a 55 grain v-max, it won't shoot anything. It wasn't an expensive barrel by any means, so if it needs to go in the scrap barrel, I guess I'll just have to take that as a lesson learned.
 
Might try 8208 and CFE223 both those work good to. Might also try some different primers. Sometimes changing just one thing makes all the difference.
 
First let me say that I assume you are loading 5.56 or .223 with that 55 grainer, so here goes. TAC is generally better for heavier bullets. I like hotter primers with either BL-C(2) or H335. Hodgdon lists both as slightly higher velocity powder than some of the others, and the maximum loads are not compressed. I like the older, often overlooked powders and pay attention to higher temperature shooting days.

Not knocking your choice of bullets 'cause I shoot a lot of Hornady pills. But my preference for the .223 has been either the Sierra 55g SP or the 53g HP. Just my two cents worth.
 
Why not change bullets, a Sierra 55 Gameking would be a good choice. It is a better bullet for coyote size game. I find them to shoot very well in my AR's both 7 and 8 twist. Benchmark gave better velocity than Varget or 8208 in 18" barrels.
 
the best bullets I have shot out of any AR 15 have been sierras, 26.8 grains of benchmark with a 50 grain blitzking has been the best load I have in any gun I have loaded for. its fast as all get out. POI does not shift in a 3 grain window, up a slight amount higher and down lower. I have always wanted to shoot btips in both my 223's and 6DTI I haven't been able to get them to shoot right, sierras have always been the best, the blitzkings, match and soft points. let me know if you try them.
 
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First, a light weight cheap barrel could be the first problem. Expecting less than 1" from it is asking a lot. There are not a lot of AR barrels out there that will even guarantee less than 1" groups. What is the trigger like? What about the optics?

Next, can you shoot less than 1" with any other AR or bolt gun? Not trying to be rude but if you cant shoot tight groups in the first place, you cant expect them.

There are a lot of factors involved when you start expecting less than 1" from an AR.
 
Originally Posted By: reb8600First, a light weight cheap barrel could be the first problem. Expecting less than 1" from it is asking a lot. There are not a lot of AR barrels out there that will even guarantee less than 1" groups. What is the trigger like? What about the optics?

Next, can you shoot less than 1" with any other AR or bolt gun? Not trying to be rude but if you cant shoot tight groups in the first place, you cant expect them.

There are a lot of factors involved when you start expecting less than 1" from an AR.

Agreed on the less than moa thing. I think ar,s are more picky on how well they shoot
 
Originally Posted By: reb8600First, a light weight cheap barrel could be the first problem. Expecting less than 1" from it is asking a lot. There are not a lot of AR barrels out there that will even guarantee less than 1" groups. What is the trigger like? What about the optics?

Next, can you shoot less than 1" with any other AR or bolt gun? Not trying to be rude but if you cant shoot tight groups in the first place, you cant expect them.

There are a lot of factors involved when you start expecting less than 1" from an AR.

If you read my OP, I did note that it being a cheap barrel could be the problem. I was merely looking for suggestions on other bullets/powders I could try, before giving up on it. The trigger is an older 3# Timney. It has a fair bit of use on it, but its still quite crisp. The scope is a Vortex Crossfire II 4-12x44. It's not top of the line, but I'm pretty sure it's not the problem.

I didn't know my resume was required in order to get suggestions, but here it is: All of the bolt action rifles I own shoot well under MOA. The AR's that I have equipped with magnified optics all shoot sub-moa (except this one, so far). I've built quite a few AR's for myself, friends, and family. Some were built with fairly cheap barrels and some were built with higher-end barrels. Thus far, all have been relatively easy to get shooting under that 1" benchmark - even if its just by a little bit. In short, this isn't my first cheap barrel, but it is my first pencil profile barrel. As far as reloading goes, I've been at it for the better part of 20 years, but I've only been really serious about it for the past 10 years or so. I'm mostly self-taught, so there is a lot I still don't know, which is why I like to ask a lot of questions in forums like this one.

I really don't think that sub-MOA is a lot to ask from an AR. The platform is capable of that and much more. That said, I do understand that it is a lot to ask from a cheap barrel. I've been lucky in the past, and I was hoping this one would work out as well. If not, its no big deal - I just want to make sure I've tested a wide variety of options before I throw in the towel. So - if you have any suggestions, I'd be happy to hear them. Also, FWIW, this is why I usually leave out the backstory - I tend to ramble a lot, and I've noticed you tend to get more answers, if you keep the question short and to the point.
 
I feel your pain. 55 gr V Max is the cats azz. Well, lets face it, any Hornady or Serria plastic tip bullet is the cats azz. For Yotes at 100 yards, what is wrong with 1". That's well within the kill zone of 12" for a yote. We all want to shoot tiny groups, but sometimes the equipment just isn't up to the task. I usually save those rifles for the grandkids to use. All they really want to do is run through a magazine as fast a possible and make some noise.
 
For an inexpensive pencil barrel I would take the slightly larger than one inch groups and run with it. If it must be sub MOA to work for you, start trying different bullets to see if it likes something else better. You could also try a couple boxes of premium factory ammo to use as a benchmark for bullet weights and velocities that work for your barrel, then work up a load from there.
 
Originally Posted By: MGYSGTThat's well within the kill zone of 12" for a yote.

You all must have some ginormous coyotes. The ones I kill, you have about a 4" sphere you better hit with the 55 Vmax if you want a good chance for a clean bang flop.

- DAA
 
When you are working up loads, are you incrementing the powder charge? Seems like the obvious answer would be yes, but I have ran across people who try one charge and call it quits...I have NO idea how that works.
I take the maximum charge, subtract the minimum charge and divide by 3 - that number is your increment. That gives me 4 charges to try. I usually use 3 shot groups.

If I can't get the results I want, I try a different powder.
 
Originally Posted By: MGYSGTI feel your pain. 55 gr V Max is the cats azz. Well, lets face it, any Hornady or Serria plastic tip bullet is the cats azz. For Yotes at 100 yards, what is wrong with 1". That's well within the kill zone of 12" for a yote. We all want to shoot tiny groups, but sometimes the equipment just isn't up to the task. I usually save those rifles for the grandkids to use. All they really want to do is run through a magazine as fast a possible and make some noise.

I'm not sure why but, if I can get something consistently under 1", it really ups my confidence when I'm actually out hunting. I'm not necessarily looking for little bitty clover leafs out of this thing. I have high expectations, but I'm not unreasonable. If it can't be done, I'll probably either rebuild with a better barrel or pass the upper along to someone who wants a cheap range blaster.
 
Originally Posted By: Dirty HippieFor an inexpensive pencil barrel I would take the slightly larger than one inch groups and run with it. If it must be sub MOA to work for you, start trying different bullets to see if it likes something else better. You could also try a couple boxes of premium factory ammo to use as a benchmark for bullet weights and velocities that work for your barrel, then work up a load from there.

I thought about trying some factory ammo, to see if there is something that works. It might be easier to do that and duplicate the load, rather than just trying to throw the kitchen sink at it.
 
Originally Posted By: reloader326When you are working up loads, are you incrementing the powder charge? Seems like the obvious answer would be yes, but I have ran across people who try one charge and call it quits...I have NO idea how that works.
I take the maximum charge, subtract the minimum charge and divide by 3 - that number is your increment. That gives me 4 charges to try. I usually use 3 shot groups.

If I can't get the results I want, I try a different powder.

That basically describes my method. I pick the powder and the max charge. Usually I'll go with 5 charge weights at 0.3 to 0.5 grain increments, depending on the total charge weight. So far, I've used TAC, Benchmark, and Varget.
 
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