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#3163323 - 09/15/18 11:26 PM New guy... Cougar advice, is this as dumb as it sounds?
photohunter Offline
Predator Master

Registered: 09/15/18
Posts: 61
Loc: CA
Hi all,
I'm not a hunter... I'll just throw that out there. Ha. Definitely an outdoorsman and definitely in the right place for advice though, so here goes... I'm in Northern Cali where it's illegal to hunt Cougars. I live on a few acres at the edge of the thick woods (eastern Sierra, high desert to the east). I have a creek in thick woods on my property. I have a few trail cams around, and get cougars and bobcats 100 feet from my house pretty regularly. I have never seen a cougar with the naked eye, and it tortures me. Mountain lion sightings are pretty common in my immediate area. I see tracks in the woods all the time when there's mud or snow, and I've startled a few bobcats while out on my mountain bike... So as far as locations, that's not really my question... Here's the dumb part:

I'm a wildlife photographer, and I want to call predators just for the photo opportunity. I've finally decided that a chance meeting is never going to yield the results I want, and it's time to up my game. So I've been devouring info on calling for a few months, foxpro purchase is imminent. Hand calling is probably not in my future. (?). I don't want to be that close, or the source of the call. But I obviously want to be safe also. I think I have a good shot at calling cougars because they are seemingly thick around here (neighbor up the road saw one this week, I had one on a trail cam the week before), and they don't get called here, so they may be a bit more likely to come in, at least at first.
I'm looking for any and all advice around the idea of letting one walk away... Seems like often that's just what they'll do anyway, but let's assume no warning shot, nothing to scare them off except maybe my movements when they've busted me... I've read plenty and studied their behavior, but obviously no first hand experience there.

I'm also wondering about what caliber handgun I might want to carry, in case that warning shot or a self defense shot becomes necessary, and general comments on how dumb this all sounds. Ha!

I'm in for the long haul... Totally aware this could be a 10 year project, but I gotta get those pics. Bucket list stuff. I consume cougar encounter stories, and I have what some of you probably understand... Maybe an irrational...maybe not... need to have that experience of a few moments with one of these critters. I know they've seen me... I need to turn the tables. So there you go. Hunting Cougars in Cali the only legal way.... Am I nuts?

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#3163327 - 09/16/18 12:38 AM Re: New guy... Cougar advice, is this as dumb as it sounds? [Re: photohunter]
Catdog1 Offline
Die Hard Member

Registered: 02/17/16
Posts: 527
Loc: Prarie ghost
Couple things to consider.

Maybe purchase a quality ground blind like a double bull. This would help conceal your movement. Plus provide "some" protection in the event it charges in. If the cats seem shy to it, set it up on your property and leave it set up so that they will walk by and get used to it. Also some form of decoy that works with the Foxpro might really help you keep their attention.

As far as protection is concerned I would think that you would be fine with getting by with bear pepper spray or even an air horn. I don't know the ins and outs of the laws in California but if you do decide to carry a handgun I would definitely check and see what the laws are.

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#3163328 - 09/16/18 01:15 AM Re: New guy... Cougar advice, is this as dumb as it sounds? [Re: photohunter]
photohunter Offline
Predator Master

Registered: 09/15/18
Posts: 61
Loc: CA
A blind is a good idea, thanks. Something I could easily leave set up on my property for sure...I don’t like the idea of not having a full field of vision, but it would conceal movement for sure. already legal with a handgun, so no worries there. I’d really have to justify using it on a cat, probably easier to explain using it on a person In California. I have a 3S tag but I don’t want to use it.:) I like the air horn idea...


Edited by photohunter (09/16/18 01:16 AM)

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#3163345 - 09/16/18 10:16 AM Re: New guy... Cougar advice, is this as dumb as it sounds? [Re: photohunter]
Catdog1 Offline
Die Hard Member

Registered: 02/17/16
Posts: 527
Loc: Prarie ghost
Originally Posted By: photohunter
A blind is a good idea, thanks. Something I could easily leave set up on my property for sure...I don’t like the idea of not having a full field of vision, but it would conceal movement for sure. already legal with a handgun, so no worries there. I’d really have to justify using it on a cat, probably easier to explain using it on a person In California. I have a 3S tag but I don’t want to use it.:) I like the air horn idea...
blinds have come a long way. I beleive the good ones have see thru black out windows that allow you to see out while nothing can see inside. Also some used to wear a complete black suit and that would allow you to disappear inside of the blind. You may even be able to set up some additonal equipment to capture movement for you. I have a cellular camera that will email/text me an alert if it catches movement. I often set it up along trails outside of my view to give me a warning something is coming.

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#3163414 - 09/16/18 09:59 PM Re: New guy... Cougar advice, is this as dumb as it sounds? [Re: photohunter]
photohunter Offline
Predator Master

Registered: 09/15/18
Posts: 61
Loc: CA
Honestly the creepiest thing about the whole idea for me is the suckers creeping in from behind. Which you know they'll do....

What's the consensus on a lure of some kind for mountain lions? I've been researching bobcats also, I'm in prime bobcat country, and what I'm gathering is that having some kind of a lure could certainly buy me a few more good seconds of time with one in the general area I want it... I'm trying to take all this hunting advice and apply it to also getting the cat into a good spot for photos... similar but different...

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#3163418 - 09/16/18 10:32 PM Re: New guy... Cougar advice, is this as dumb as it sounds? [Re: photohunter]
Catdog1 Offline
Die Hard Member

Registered: 02/17/16
Posts: 527
Loc: Prarie ghost
Imo, a visual decoy would do more for u than any type of lure

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#3163426 - 09/17/18 12:11 AM Re: New guy... Cougar advice, is this as dumb as it sounds? [Re: photohunter]
photohunter Offline
Predator Master

Registered: 09/15/18
Posts: 61
Loc: CA
Decoy is what I meant, sorry... not hunter enough to have the vocab. haha. I've read about using a bunch of feathers or something similar for bobcats... would it have to be a furry mammal type thing to get a lion's attention?

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#3163428 - 09/17/18 01:14 AM Re: New guy... Cougar advice, is this as dumb as it sounds? [Re: photohunter]
Catdog1 Offline
Die Hard Member

Registered: 02/17/16
Posts: 527
Loc: Prarie ghost
Personally if you decide to buy a Foxpro I would just buy the decoy that goes with it that would be the easiest thing. Other than that just a couple wings from an owl or a hawk on some string will work

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#3163466 - 09/17/18 12:39 PM Re: New guy... Cougar advice, is this as dumb as it sounds? [Re: Catdog1]
fw707 Offline
Retired Moderator

Registered: 03/18/09
Posts: 9367
Loc: Roadside watermelon stand
Originally Posted By: Catdog1
Personally if you decide to buy a Foxpro I would just buy the decoy that goes with it that would be the easiest thing. Other than that just a couple wings from an owl or a hawk on some string will work


Do you prefer hawk wings, or owl wings?
_________________________
“better the hard truth, I say, than the comforting fantasy.”

Carl Sagan

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#3163500 - 09/17/18 07:03 PM Re: New guy... Cougar advice, is this as dumb as it sounds? [Re: fw707]
Catdog1 Offline
Die Hard Member

Registered: 02/17/16
Posts: 527
Loc: Prarie ghost
Originally Posted By: fw707
Originally Posted By: Catdog1
Personally if you decide to buy a Foxpro I would just buy the decoy that goes with it that would be the easiest thing. Other than that just a couple wings from an owl or a hawk on some string will work


Do you prefer hawk wings, or owl wings?
either or. Just whatever i can come across from a dead one on the side of the road.

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#3163502 - 09/17/18 07:10 PM Re: New guy... Cougar advice, is this as dumb as it sounds? [Re: photohunter]
photohunter Offline
Predator Master

Registered: 09/15/18
Posts: 61
Loc: CA
Also curious about a "poor man's" decoy... my area is thick with turkeys... is it always better to go with something more native over a "random" decoy? Red Tail hawks are everywhere around here also...

Also figuring out my own equipment, here's a question for anyone calling either bobcats or cougars... what is the most likely distance for them them to 'hold up' and check out the scene before coming into any sort of decoy? I realize the likelihood of getting to watch them do this is slim, but it happens... if you have had the experience of watching either of these critters stalk in, at what range (roughly) did they hold up and pose for the camera before either coming all the way in, or busting you and taking off?

As a photographer I have to figure out the lens situation... mega far fixed mm lens, or medium range zoom... what kind of distances are you generally taking a shot at when hunting these cats with an e caller? And how far are you setting yourself up from the caller? (generally speaking, It's obviously going to vary with the situation)... I assume that what I want to be able to see is going to be very similar from what I would want to see in order to locate and get a shot off as a hunter.

Gotta tell ya... I started my first post with "I'm not a hunter..." but the more I explore hunting, as a wildlife photographer... yeah I am. ha.

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#3163510 - 09/17/18 08:10 PM Re: New guy... Cougar advice, is this as dumb as it sounds? [Re: photohunter]
DoubleCK Offline
Die Hard Member III

Registered: 01/15/09
Posts: 3479
Loc: Wauneta, NE / Gold Canyon, AZ
Here is a good place to start...

http://www.rain-shadow.com/

You will likely need all of that determination/persistence you seem to have. rolleyes


Edited by DoubleCK (09/17/18 08:13 PM)
_________________________
Don't Go Ridin' on that Long Black Train!

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#3163579 - 09/18/18 01:27 AM Re: New guy... Cougar advice, is this as dumb as it sounds? [Re: photohunter]
photohunter Offline
Predator Master

Registered: 09/15/18
Posts: 61
Loc: CA
Oh I consumed all of that site months ago w00t

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#3163627 - 09/18/18 12:27 PM Re: New guy... Cougar advice, is this as dumb as it sounds? [Re: photohunter]
photohunter Offline
Predator Master

Registered: 09/15/18
Posts: 61
Loc: CA
Bobcat on the backyard cam last night. Seems to be 2 week intervals that I'm getting them (it?). Neighbor got a cougar a week ago.

Anyone use a "ghostblind"? they seem cool but pricy and hard to pack around.

Is it common to call in a mountian lion when calling for bobcats? Like how a bobcat might show up when calling for coyotes? I mean if there's a cougar in the area, is it likely that it will respond to a smaller game call like a jackrabbit or bird distress that a bobcat would be attracted to? I use the word "common" loosely... I mean it's not "common" to call in a mountain lion when calling for mountain lions.... but you know what I mean

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#3163748 - 09/19/18 12:29 PM Re: New guy... Cougar advice, is this as dumb as it sounds? [Re: photohunter]
jimmy917 Offline
Predator Master

Registered: 04/03/14
Posts: 58
Loc: Ohio
I have a ghost blind. Like most things, if used in the right circumstances, it works. My daughter took her first deer using it. It fooled every animal that walked in front of it, and probably just as many humans. Keep in mind they are pretty low, unless you buy the extensions. Also, it’s a relatively narrow concealment angle. Probably 90 degrees or so.

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#3163817 - 09/19/18 08:33 PM Re: New guy... Cougar advice, is this as dumb as it sounds? [Re: photohunter]
photohunter Offline
Predator Master

Registered: 09/15/18
Posts: 61
Loc: CA
Copy that, thanks. I can see it being great in the right application, if the terrain cooperated. I thought it was a complete enclosure though... 90 degrees may be great, or not... I'm leaning more towards heavy camo and no movement.

I found a turkey kill site today... got a bunch of feathers and made a couple of bundles for decoys... if you watch enough internet you realize that it's impossible not to attract a few dozen bobcats every time you turn your call on. Looking forward to that. thumbup haha.

Cougar question... all these stories about them winding up coming in from behind... what is the best way to try to minimize that, assuming you've got a treeline/open space kind of thing to work with... or is the better bet to get in the thick cover and just do your best to try to call them out front? Any good resources on strategies for cougar stands? I've been on other forums with the constant "use the search bar" irritated replies... I'm searching, I'm searching... but not landing on a good resource for that specific question.

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#3163818 - 09/19/18 08:40 PM Re: New guy... Cougar advice, is this as dumb as it sounds? [Re: Catdog1]
fw707 Offline
Retired Moderator

Registered: 03/18/09
Posts: 9367
Loc: Roadside watermelon stand
Originally Posted By: Catdog1
Originally Posted By: fw707
Originally Posted By: Catdog1
Personally if you decide to buy a Foxpro I would just buy the decoy that goes with it that would be the easiest thing. Other than that just a couple wings from an owl or a hawk on some string will work


Do you prefer hawk wings, or owl wings?

either or. Just whatever i can come across from a dead one on the side of the road.


Ok.
Does the US Fish and Wildlife Service make exemptions for possession of parts of road-killed federally protected raptors?
_________________________
“better the hard truth, I say, than the comforting fantasy.”

Carl Sagan

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#3163850 - 09/19/18 11:36 PM Re: New guy... Cougar advice, is this as dumb as it sounds? [Re: fw707]
Catdog1 Offline
Die Hard Member

Registered: 02/17/16
Posts: 527
Loc: Prarie ghost
Originally Posted By: fw707
Originally Posted By: Catdog1
Originally Posted By: fw707
Originally Posted By: Catdog1
Personally if you decide to buy a Foxpro I would just buy the decoy that goes with it that would be the easiest thing. Other than that just a couple wings from an owl or a hawk on some string will work


Do you prefer hawk wings, or owl wings?

either or. Just whatever i can come across from a dead one on the side of the road.


Ok.
Does the US Fish and Wildlife Service make exemptions for possession of parts of road-killed federally protected raptors?

im permitted to posses them.

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#3163853 - 09/19/18 11:41 PM Re: New guy... Cougar advice, is this as dumb as it sounds? [Re: Catdog1]
fw707 Offline
Retired Moderator

Registered: 03/18/09
Posts: 9367
Loc: Roadside watermelon stand
Originally Posted By: Catdog1
Originally Posted By: fw707
Originally Posted By: Catdog1
Originally Posted By: fw707
Originally Posted By: Catdog1
Personally if you decide to buy a Foxpro I would just buy the decoy that goes with it that would be the easiest thing. Other than that just a couple wings from an owl or a hawk on some string will work


Do you prefer hawk wings, or owl wings?

either or. Just whatever i can come across from a dead one on the side of the road.


Ok.
Does the US Fish and Wildlife Service make exemptions for possession of parts of road-killed federally protected raptors?

im permitted to posses them.


Would you mind sharing the details of your exemption?
.
_________________________
“better the hard truth, I say, than the comforting fantasy.”

Carl Sagan

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#3163856 - 09/20/18 12:01 AM Re: New guy... Cougar advice, is this as dumb as it sounds? [Re: photohunter]
g Bo Offline
Die Hard Member

Registered: 04/20/14
Posts: 565
Loc: Utah
Go to the link that Doubleck suggests spend I think it's $50 and you'll be way farther ahead than you are now.

I'm no expert but I have put in a lot of time hunting lions over the past 8-9 months and have learned a lot. I personally do not feel like a decoy will be very effective in calling lions. If you know lions are around I think a blind will help with concealing your movements. Listen to Steves talks on lion hunting and you will learn tons. I had two come in from behind and above me and it does make you abit unsettled. I finally called in two at once.

Finally posted the story on the predator hunting post. "Finally called a lion"

As far as caliber of side arm, pack something that will have some energy but I believe one shot from any gun would for sure change an attacking lions attitude.

They are an amazing animal.


Edited by g Bo (09/20/18 12:02 AM)

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#3163860 - 09/20/18 01:00 AM Re: New guy... Cougar advice, is this as dumb as it sounds? [Re: photohunter]
photohunter Offline
Predator Master

Registered: 09/15/18
Posts: 61
Loc: CA
Right on, thanks. Definitely will get that package from rain shadow's site.
Holy smokes, you went through it... Nice work. Here's hoping for no broken ribs or equipment... 9 months would be awesome though, you got it done relatively quickly, considering.

Very torn on a blind. I get it, but the restriction may outweigh the benefits for me. I may try it to see how I feel about it. as a photographer I have done the motionless hour+ many times... Never for something as shy as a cougar, but still... Not completely ignorant about it. I've had a turkey peck my foot.

Can you explain your reasoning on the ineffectiveness of a decoy for a lion?

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#3163870 - 09/20/18 04:18 AM Re: New guy... Cougar advice, is this as dumb as it sounds? [Re: fw707]
Catdog1 Offline
Die Hard Member

Registered: 02/17/16
Posts: 527
Loc: Prarie ghost
Originally Posted By: fw707
Originally Posted By: Catdog1
Originally Posted By: fw707
Originally Posted By: Catdog1
Originally Posted By: fw707
Originally Posted By: Catdog1
Personally if you decide to buy a Foxpro I would just buy the decoy that goes with it that would be the easiest thing. Other than that just a couple wings from an owl or a hawk on some string will work


Do you prefer hawk wings, or owl wings?

either or. Just whatever i can come across from a dead one on the side of the road.


Ok.
Does the US Fish and Wildlife Service make exemptions for possession of parts of road-killed federally protected raptors?

im permitted to posses them.


Would you mind sharing the details of your exemption?
.
it's not an exemption.... it's a permit.
That's about all the detail i can share.


Edited by Catdog1 (09/20/18 04:23 AM)

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#3163884 - 09/20/18 10:15 AM Re: New guy... Cougar advice, is this as dumb as it sounds? [Re: photohunter]
SlickerThanSnot Offline
PM senior

Registered: 01/31/14
Posts: 5047
Loc: stuck in a fence
some native americans(indians) are allowed to possess feathers and other various parts of federally protected raptors for use in religious ceremonies.

BUT, to obtain eagle, hawk, owl, falcon, etc feathers for religious ceremonies, native americans can’t just go out and collect their own feathers. they must get them through a federal repository.

seems somebody is breaking the law and is giving out some terrible advice here.

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#3163885 - 09/20/18 10:23 AM Re: New guy... Cougar advice, is this as dumb as it sounds? [Re: photohunter]
SlickerThanSnot Offline
PM senior

Registered: 01/31/14
Posts: 5047
Loc: stuck in a fence
funny story. was at a flea market a few years back. on a table were a pair of dried hawk legs complete with toes and talons. i picked up the pair of feet and asked the lady behind the table if she knew they were illegal to possess and were damm sure not legal to be selling.

she replied that she was native american and she could possess them and sell them.

i told her i knew a wildlife officer and i was going to go call him to come down to have a look.

you would not believe how fast those 2 feet were snatched up and put in a box under the table. lol

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#3163888 - 09/20/18 10:48 AM Re: New guy... Cougar advice, is this as dumb as it sounds? [Re: SlickerThanSnot]
Catdog1 Offline
Die Hard Member

Registered: 02/17/16
Posts: 527
Loc: Prarie ghost
Originally Posted By: SlickerThanSnot


seems somebody is breaking the law and is giving out some terrible advice here.


Wrong.... just because you don't know everything does not mean that I don't have a permit to possess them which I do.

Native Americans are not the only people in the world that can submit an application for a permit to possess hawk or owl feathers or eagle feathers


Edited by Catdog1 (09/20/18 10:52 AM)

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#3163889 - 09/20/18 10:55 AM Re: New guy... Cougar advice, is this as dumb as it sounds? [Re: SlickerThanSnot]
Catdog1 Offline
Die Hard Member

Registered: 02/17/16
Posts: 527
Loc: Prarie ghost
Originally Posted By: SlickerThanSnot
funny story. was at a flea market a few years back. on a table were a pair of dried hawk legs complete with toes and talons. i picked up the pair of feet and asked the lady behind the table if she knew they were illegal to possess and were damm sure not legal to be selling.

she replied that she was native american and she could possess them and sell them.

i told her i knew a wildlife officer and i was going to go call him to come down to have a look.

you would not believe how fast those 2 feet were snatched up and put in a box under the table. lol
funny story, I called you out on a different thread and all I've heard so far is crickets. What happened did the cat get your tongue? Tell us about all those trophies that you've won

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#3163891 - 09/20/18 11:14 AM Re: New guy... Cougar advice, is this as dumb as it sounds? [Re: photohunter]
SlickerThanSnot Offline
PM senior

Registered: 01/31/14
Posts: 5047
Loc: stuck in a fence
called me out? all you did was claim you knew something about turds from a guy named erik. you some kind of turd expert?

where did i say i won all those trophies? your reading comprehension needs some refinement.

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#3163892 - 09/20/18 11:17 AM Re: New guy... Cougar advice, is this as dumb as it sounds? [Re: Catdog1]
SlickerThanSnot Offline
PM senior

Registered: 01/31/14
Posts: 5047
Loc: stuck in a fence
Originally Posted By: Catdog1

Native Americans are not the only people in the world that can submit an application for a permit to possess hawk or owl feathers or eagle feathers


yeah, sure, ok. you are *special*. you can go around cutting wings off of road killed eagles, hawks and owls.

yeah, sure, special indeed.

for you people that are not *special*, please do not do this.

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#3163893 - 09/20/18 11:18 AM Re: New guy... Cougar advice, is this as dumb as it sounds? [Re: SlickerThanSnot]
Catdog1 Offline
Die Hard Member

Registered: 02/17/16
Posts: 527
Loc: Prarie ghost
Originally Posted By: SlickerThanSnot
Originally Posted By: Catdog1

Native Americans are not the only people in the world that can submit an application for a permit to possess hawk or owl feathers or eagle feathers


yeah, sure, ok. you are *special*. you can go around cutting wings off of road killed eagles, hawks and owls.

yeah, sure, special indeed.

for you people that are not *special*, please do not do this.
it's got nothing to do with being special... all it has to do with is I submitted the proper application and was awarded a permit... simple as that sorry you're so butt hurt over that


Edited by Catdog1 (09/20/18 11:19 AM)

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#3163894 - 09/20/18 11:24 AM Re: New guy... Cougar advice, is this as dumb as it sounds? [Re: photohunter]
Catdog1 Offline
Die Hard Member

Registered: 02/17/16
Posts: 527
Loc: Prarie ghost
Why is it every forum has got a couple know it alls like this....some washed out guy in his 70s thinks he knows everything because he can use a keyboard....trying to play johnnie cop/game ranger at the flea market...lol

A high percentage of the time guys like this are lying out of their teeth about 99% of the things they claim.

They always seem to have an extremely high post count... make comments on topics that aren't even relevant.

Normally smart mouthed and think they own the Forum.
When they really get butt hurt they're the first to go whining to the moderator to try to get you banned.

The fact he hangs out at flea markets says all i need to know about him...bwahahaha lol lol lol


Edited by Catdog1 (09/20/18 12:05 PM)

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#3163935 - 09/20/18 06:45 PM Re: New guy... Cougar advice, is this as dumb as it sounds? [Re: photohunter]
photohunter Offline
Predator Master

Registered: 09/15/18
Posts: 61
Loc: CA
So, uh... about using a decoy for a lion.... haha. Welcome to the forum, eh?

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#3163966 - 09/20/18 11:32 PM Re: New guy... Cougar advice, is this as dumb as it sounds? [Re: photohunter]
g Bo Offline
Die Hard Member

Registered: 04/20/14
Posts: 565
Loc: Utah
Photo hunter, about a decoy it is just my opinion it wouldn't be very effective. I actually felt when I first started calling them in December, I almost felt an urgentcy about getting some kind of a decoy and then as I went on the thought went away.

Maybe there are those who have a strong opinion about decoys on lions and have had experience with it. Heck maybe in all my calling I would have killed one in 2 months with a decoy instead of 8-9 months without?

As far as a blind. If you're on the move it won't be effective when you're putting it up will notify everything in the area, "Het!here I am". But if you know an area where they frequently hang out, put up your blind and leave it. Slip into it every so often and it may give you a big advantage

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#3163981 - 09/21/18 08:26 AM Re: New guy... Cougar advice, is this as dumb as it sounds? [Re: Catdog1]
fw707 Offline
Retired Moderator

Registered: 03/18/09
Posts: 9367
Loc: Roadside watermelon stand
Originally Posted By: Catdog1
Originally Posted By: fw707
Originally Posted By: Catdog1
Originally Posted By: fw707
Originally Posted By: Catdog1
Originally Posted By: fw707
Originally Posted By: Catdog1
Personally if you decide to buy a Foxpro I would just buy the decoy that goes with it that would be the easiest thing. Other than that just a couple wings from an owl or a hawk on some string will work


Do you prefer hawk wings, or owl wings?

either or. Just whatever i can come across from a dead one on the side of the road.


Ok.
Does the US Fish and Wildlife Service make exemptions for possession of parts of road-killed federally protected raptors?

im permitted to posses them.


Would you mind sharing the details of your exemption?
.
it's not an exemption.... it's a permit.
That's about all the detail i can share.


I would like to have one of those permits before bobcat season so I could legally use hawk and owl wings as decoys at my calling setup.

What is the name of the permit? Is the application online where it can be printed off? What office does it need to be submitted to, and is there a fee?

*
_________________________
“better the hard truth, I say, than the comforting fantasy.”

Carl Sagan

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#3163984 - 09/21/18 09:17 AM Re: New guy... Cougar advice, is this as dumb as it sounds? [Re: photohunter]
Catdog1 Offline
Die Hard Member

Registered: 02/17/16
Posts: 527
Loc: Prarie ghost
Just Google predatory bird permitt USFW

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#3163987 - 09/21/18 09:29 AM Re: New guy... Cougar advice, is this as dumb as it sounds? [Re: photohunter]
Catdog1 Offline
Die Hard Member

Registered: 02/17/16
Posts: 527
Loc: Prarie ghost
...


Edited by Catdog1 (09/21/18 09:29 AM)

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#3163988 - 09/21/18 09:31 AM Re: New guy... Cougar advice, is this as dumb as it sounds? [Re: photohunter]
Kevinfarmer3456 Offline
Seasoned Member

Registered: 03/11/18
Posts: 350
Loc: Texas
I used to know a guy that had a predatory bird permit for his ADC work. But I have no idea what it was called or where he got it

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#3164000 - 09/21/18 10:50 AM Re: New guy... Cougar advice, is this as dumb as it sounds? [Re: photohunter]
SlickerThanSnot Offline
PM senior

Registered: 01/31/14
Posts: 5047
Loc: stuck in a fence
assassin1 is alive and well.

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#3164006 - 09/21/18 11:37 AM Re: New guy... Cougar advice, is this as dumb as it sounds? [Re: Catdog1]
fw707 Offline
Retired Moderator

Registered: 03/18/09
Posts: 9367
Loc: Roadside watermelon stand
Originally Posted By: Catdog1
Just Google predatory bird permitt USFW


I’ve Googled until I’m tired of Googling and all I can find is falconry and education related permits.
Could you just give me the name from the top of your permit that allows you to legally pick up road-killed hawk and owl parts and use them as attractors and decoys while you are hunting.
It would sure save me some time.
_________________________
“better the hard truth, I say, than the comforting fantasy.”

Carl Sagan

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#3164015 - 09/21/18 12:15 PM Re: New guy... Cougar advice, is this as dumb as it sounds? [Re: photohunter]
SlickerThanSnot Offline
PM senior

Registered: 01/31/14
Posts: 5047
Loc: stuck in a fence
Originally Posted By: fw707

Could you just give me the name from the top of your permit that allows you to legally pick up road-killed hawk and owl parts and use them as attractors and decoys while you are hunting.
It would sure save me some time.


you will never get one of those permits. it is a very special permit for very special people. yes indeed.

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#3164028 - 09/21/18 01:19 PM Re: New guy... Cougar advice, is this as dumb as it sounds? [Re: SlickerThanSnot]
Lefty SRH Offline
Die Hard Member III

Registered: 01/09/14
Posts: 2024
Loc: North AL
[quote=SlickerThanSnot]assassin1 is alive and well. [/quot

Hahahaha, on my way to get the popcorn.....lol
_________________________
Longest kill shot to date, 620yds with a custom built 22-243 Win.

"In GOD We Trust"

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#3164030 - 09/21/18 01:31 PM Re: New guy... Cougar advice, is this as dumb as it sounds? [Re: Kevinfarmer3456]
Catdog1 Offline
Die Hard Member

Registered: 02/17/16
Posts: 527
Loc: Prarie ghost
Originally Posted By: Kevinfarmer3456
I used to know a guy that had a predatory bird permit for his ADC work. But I have no idea what it was called or where he got it
yes. Mine is the same.

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#3164039 - 09/21/18 03:32 PM Re: New guy... Cougar advice, is this as dumb as it sounds? [Re: SlickerThanSnot]
fw707 Offline
Retired Moderator

Registered: 03/18/09
Posts: 9367
Loc: Roadside watermelon stand
Originally Posted By: SlickerThanSnot
Originally Posted By: fw707

Could you just give me the name from the top of your permit that allows you to legally pick up road-killed hawk and owl parts and use them as attractors and decoys while you are hunting.
It would sure save me some time.


you will never get one of those permits. it is a very special permit for very special people. yes indeed.


I’m beginning to think you are right, Slick!
Heck, I can’t even find find out the name of the permit so I can apply for one!
_________________________
“better the hard truth, I say, than the comforting fantasy.”

Carl Sagan

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#3164040 - 09/21/18 03:34 PM Re: New guy... Cougar advice, is this as dumb as it sounds? [Re: fw707]
Kevinfarmer3456 Offline
Seasoned Member

Registered: 03/11/18
Posts: 350
Loc: Texas
Originally Posted By: fw707
Originally Posted By: SlickerThanSnot
Originally Posted By: fw707

Could you just give me the name from the top of your permit that allows you to legally pick up road-killed hawk and owl parts and use them as attractors and decoys while you are hunting.
It would sure save me some time.


you will never get one of those permits. it is a very special permit for very special people. yes indeed.


I’m beginning to think you are right, Slick!
Heck, I can’t even find find out the name of the permit so I can apply for one!
you might try calling us fish and wildlife and ask them about it

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#3164041 - 09/21/18 03:40 PM Re: New guy... Cougar advice, is this as dumb as it sounds? [Re: Catdog1]
fw707 Offline
Retired Moderator

Registered: 03/18/09
Posts: 9367
Loc: Roadside watermelon stand
Originally Posted By: Catdog1
Originally Posted By: Kevinfarmer3456
I used to know a guy that had a predatory bird permit for his ADC work. But I have no idea what it was called or where he got it
yes. Mine is the same.


The same as what??
If you can give me the name of the permit and the office that issued yours I can call them and get the application process started.
_________________________
“better the hard truth, I say, than the comforting fantasy.”

Carl Sagan

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#3164042 - 09/21/18 03:41 PM Re: New guy... Cougar advice, is this as dumb as it sounds? [Re: Kevinfarmer3456]
Catdog1 Offline
Die Hard Member

Registered: 02/17/16
Posts: 527
Loc: Prarie ghost
Originally Posted By: Kevinfarmer3456
Originally Posted By: fw707
Originally Posted By: SlickerThanSnot
Originally Posted By: fw707

Could you just give me the name from the top of your permit that allows you to legally pick up road-killed hawk and owl parts and use them as attractors and decoys while you are hunting.
It would sure save me some time.


you will never get one of those permits. it is a very special permit for very special people. yes indeed.


I’m beginning to think you are right, Slick!
Heck, I can’t even find find out the name of the permit so I can apply for one!
you might try calling us fish and wildlife and ask them about it
there's no way that's going to happen. That would actually require him to do something. He wants everybody else to do the footwork for him. There's no way I would help him find a cup of water if he was on fire between him and snot-nose they've both treated me like crap on this forum for years I wouldn't piss on him if he were on fire...these are the kind of guys that, if you cant do it for them and hold their hand thru the whole process....that in their mind, "such thing doesnt exist and youre a liar"


Edited by Catdog1 (09/21/18 04:07 PM)

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#3164044 - 09/21/18 04:06 PM Re: New guy... Cougar advice, is this as dumb as it sounds? [Re: Catdog1]
fw707 Offline
Retired Moderator

Registered: 03/18/09
Posts: 9367
Loc: Roadside watermelon stand
Originally Posted By: Catdog1
Originally Posted By: Kevinfarmer3456
Originally Posted By: fw707
Originally Posted By: SlickerThanSnot
Originally Posted By: fw707

Could you just give me the name from the top of your permit that allows you to legally pick up road-killed hawk and owl parts and use them as attractors and decoys while you are hunting.
It would sure save me some time.


you will never get one of those permits. it is a very special permit for very special people. yes indeed.


I’m beginning to think you are right, Slick!
Heck, I can’t even find find out the name of the permit so I can apply for one!
you might try calling us fish and wildlife and ask them about it
there's no way that's going to happen. That would actually require him to do something. He wants everybody else to do the footwork for him. There's no way I would help him find a cup of water if he was on fire between him and snot-nose they've both treated me like crap on this forum for years I wouldn't piss on him if he were on fire


Oops.
Seems like somebody’s a little upset.
_________________________
“better the hard truth, I say, than the comforting fantasy.”

Carl Sagan

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#3164047 - 09/21/18 04:12 PM Re: New guy... Cougar advice, is this as dumb as it sounds? [Re: photohunter]
Catdog1 Offline
Die Hard Member

Registered: 02/17/16
Posts: 527
Loc: Prarie ghost
Truthfully, he doesnt want one of these permits like he keeps leading on and lying about wanting one. He just wants me to prove something to him because i have something he didnt even know exsisted and he is pissed that he doesnt know everything. I don't have to prove anything to him, simply because this conversation had nothing to do with him in the first place. I have a permit to possess predatory birds and migratory birds that I received from USFW for my ADC work that I do privately. End of story if he really wanted one he would already have one or he would have already contacted them to get the application.


Edited by Catdog1 (09/21/18 04:13 PM)

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#3164048 - 09/21/18 04:15 PM Re: New guy... Cougar advice, is this as dumb as it sounds? [Re: fw707]
Catdog1 Offline
Die Hard Member

Registered: 02/17/16
Posts: 527
Loc: Prarie ghost
Originally Posted By: fw707
Originally Posted By: Catdog1
Originally Posted By: Kevinfarmer3456
Originally Posted By: fw707
Originally Posted By: SlickerThanSnot
Originally Posted By: fw707

Could you just give me the name from the top of your permit that allows you to legally pick up road-killed hawk and owl parts and use them as attractors and decoys while you are hunting.
It would sure save me some time.


you will never get one of those permits. it is a very special permit for very special people. yes indeed.


I’m beginning to think you are right, Slick!
Heck, I can’t even find find out the name of the permit so I can apply for one!
you might try calling us fish and wildlife and ask them about it
there's no way that's going to happen. That would actually require him to do something. He wants everybody else to do the footwork for him. There's no way I would help him find a cup of water if he was on fire between him and snot-nose they've both treated me like crap on this forum for years I wouldn't piss on him if he were on fire


Oops.
Seems like somebody’s a little upset.
Oops...seems like someone is lazy and cant do their own homework

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#3164050 - 09/21/18 04:21 PM Re: New guy... Cougar advice, is this as dumb as it sounds? [Re: Catdog1]
fw707 Offline
Retired Moderator

Registered: 03/18/09
Posts: 9367
Loc: Roadside watermelon stand
Originally Posted By: Catdog1
Originally Posted By: fw707
Originally Posted By: Catdog1
Originally Posted By: Kevinfarmer3456
Originally Posted By: fw707
Originally Posted By: SlickerThanSnot
Originally Posted By: fw707

Could you just give me the name from the top of your permit that allows you to legally pick up road-killed hawk and owl parts and use them as attractors and decoys while you are hunting.
It would sure save me some time.


you will never get one of those permits. it is a very special permit for very special people. yes indeed.


I’m beginning to think you are right, Slick!
Heck, I can’t even find find out the name of the permit so I can apply for one!
you might try calling us fish and wildlife and ask them about it
there's no way that's going to happen. That would actually require him to do something. He wants everybody else to do the footwork for him. There's no way I would help him find a cup of water if he was on fire between him and snot-nose they've both treated me like crap on this forum for years I wouldn't piss on him if he were on fire


Oops.
Seems like somebody’s a little upset.
Oops...seems like someone is lazy and cant do their own homework


Seems pretty simple.....

Originally Posted By: fw707

Could you just give me the name from the top of your permit that allows you to legally pick up road-killed hawk and owl parts and use them as attractors and decoys while you are hunting.


lol
_________________________
“better the hard truth, I say, than the comforting fantasy.”

Carl Sagan

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#3164054 - 09/21/18 04:34 PM Re: New guy... Cougar advice, is this as dumb as it sounds? [Re: photohunter]
fw707 Offline
Retired Moderator

Registered: 03/18/09
Posts: 9367
Loc: Roadside watermelon stand
From the “Board Rules”:

“Posting that counsels illegal activities ...................will not be tolerated and could result in immediate suspension of posting privileges.”

http://www.predatormastersforums.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=boardrules&v=1


Originally Posted By: Catdog1
Personally if you decide to buy a Foxpro I would just buy the decoy that goes with it that would be the easiest thing. Other than that just a couple wings from an owl or a hawk on some string will work



??


Edited by fw707 (09/21/18 04:36 PM)
Edit Reason: Added link
_________________________
“better the hard truth, I say, than the comforting fantasy.”

Carl Sagan

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#3164055 - 09/21/18 04:42 PM Re: New guy... Cougar advice, is this as dumb as it sounds? [Re: fw707]
Catdog1 Offline
Die Hard Member

Registered: 02/17/16
Posts: 527
Loc: Prarie ghost
Originally Posted By: fw707
From the “Board Rules”:

“Posting that counsels illegal activities ...................will not be tolerated and could result in immediate suspension of posting privileges.”

http://www.predatormastersforums.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=boardrules&v=1


Originally Posted By: Catdog1
Personally if you decide to buy a Foxpro I would just buy the decoy that goes with it that would be the easiest thing. Other than that just a couple wings from an owl or a hawk on some string will work



??
oh boy here we go....told ya...high post count...knows everything...gets butt hurt cause he is wrong...instantly trying to play forum cop and get someone banned...typical....sad honestly.

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#3164056 - 09/21/18 04:46 PM Re: New guy... Cougar advice, is this as dumb as it sounds? [Re: photohunter]
Kevinfarmer3456 Offline
Seasoned Member

Registered: 03/11/18
Posts: 350
Loc: Texas
LOL. You did predict that...hahaha

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#3164059 - 09/21/18 05:21 PM Re: New guy... Cougar advice, is this as dumb as it sounds? [Re: Catdog1]
fw707 Offline
Retired Moderator

Registered: 03/18/09
Posts: 9367
Loc: Roadside watermelon stand
Originally Posted By: Catdog1
Originally Posted By: fw707
From the “Board Rules”:

“Posting that counsels illegal activities ...................will not be tolerated and could result in immediate suspension of posting privileges.”

http://www.predatormastersforums.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=boardrules&v=1


Originally Posted By: Catdog1
Personally if you decide to buy a Foxpro I would just buy the decoy that goes with it that would be the easiest thing. Other than that just a couple wings from an owl or a hawk on some string will work



??
oh boy here we go....told ya...high post count...knows everything...gets butt hurt cause he is wrong...instantly trying to play forum cop and get someone banned...typical....sad honestly.


lol
Not my rules counselor, they are the board rules you agreed to when you signed on.
lol

Now tell us what permit you have that allows you to pick up road-killed birds of prey and use them as decoys and attractactors while hunting.
You’re running out of ways to dodge, distract, and redirect the question.

lol
_________________________
“better the hard truth, I say, than the comforting fantasy.”

Carl Sagan

Top
#3164061 - 09/21/18 05:30 PM Re: New guy... Cougar advice, is this as dumb as it sounds? [Re: Kevinfarmer3456]
fw707 Offline
Retired Moderator

Registered: 03/18/09
Posts: 9367
Loc: Roadside watermelon stand
Originally Posted By: Kevinfarmer3456
I used to know a guy that had a predatory bird permit for his ADC work. But I have no idea what it was called or where he got it


Now that right there was a worthwhile contribution to the discussion.
If you come up with any more valuable information please let us know.

lol lol
_________________________
“better the hard truth, I say, than the comforting fantasy.”

Carl Sagan

Top
#3164065 - 09/21/18 06:08 PM Re: New guy... Cougar advice, is this as dumb as it sounds? [Re: fw707]
Kevinfarmer3456 Offline
Seasoned Member

Registered: 03/11/18
Posts: 350
Loc: Texas
Originally Posted By: fw707
Originally Posted By: Kevinfarmer3456
I used to know a guy that had a predatory bird permit for his ADC work. But I have no idea what it was called or where he got it


Now that right there was a worthwhile contribution to the discussion.
If you come up with any more valuable information please let us know.

lol lol
exact example of what catdog was saying...more smart responses...lol

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#3164066 - 09/21/18 06:24 PM Re: New guy... Cougar advice, is this as dumb as it sounds? [Re: Kevinfarmer3456]
fw707 Offline
Retired Moderator

Registered: 03/18/09
Posts: 9367
Loc: Roadside watermelon stand
Originally Posted By: Kevinfarmer3456
Originally Posted By: fw707
Originally Posted By: Kevinfarmer3456
I used to know a guy that had a predatory bird permit for his ADC work. But I have no idea what it was called or where he got it


Now that right there was a worthwhile contribution to the discussion.
If you come up with any more valuable information please let us know.

lol lol
exact example of what catdog was saying...more smart responses...lol


Yeah, that catdog is a wealth of information.
He’s good with responses, but short on answers.
lol
_________________________
“better the hard truth, I say, than the comforting fantasy.”

Carl Sagan

Top
#3164079 - 09/21/18 07:53 PM Re: New guy... Cougar advice, is this as dumb as it sounds? [Re: photohunter]
photohunter Offline
Predator Master

Registered: 09/15/18
Posts: 61
Loc: CA
Hooboy, gettin' to know the folks around here. haha. So I won't go out harvest hawk feathers anytime soon... smile
Found some turkey feathers and good to go with a decoy... Anyone else want to chime in on why or why not to use a decoy for lions? It's not going to hurt, right?.... or is it? From what I've gathered I'll use a decoy for bobcats for sure.

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#3164082 - 09/21/18 08:22 PM Re: New guy... Cougar advice, is this as dumb as it sounds? [Re: photohunter]
SlickerThanSnot Offline
PM senior

Registered: 01/31/14
Posts: 5047
Loc: stuck in a fence
hey fw707. this is all you need. should be good to go.


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#3164087 - 09/21/18 08:40 PM Re: New guy... Cougar advice, is this as dumb as it sounds? [Re: SlickerThanSnot]
fw707 Offline
Retired Moderator

Registered: 03/18/09
Posts: 9367
Loc: Roadside watermelon stand
Originally Posted By: SlickerThanSnot
hey fw707. this is all you need. should be good to go.




lol lol lol
_________________________
“better the hard truth, I say, than the comforting fantasy.”

Carl Sagan

Top
#3164090 - 09/21/18 08:44 PM Re: New guy... Cougar advice, is this as dumb as it sounds? [Re: Kevinfarmer3456]
fw707 Offline
Retired Moderator

Registered: 03/18/09
Posts: 9367
Loc: Roadside watermelon stand
Originally Posted By: Kevinfarmer3456
Originally Posted By: fw707
Originally Posted By: Kevinfarmer3456
I used to know a guy that had a predatory bird permit for his ADC work. But I have no idea what it was called or where he got it


Now that right there was a worthwhile contribution to the discussion.
If you come up with any more valuable information please let us know.

lol lol
exact example of what catdog was saying...more smart responses...lol


Hey Kevin,
Look up the definition of “obfuscation” and then let the rest of us know if you think it applies to your mentor.
_________________________
“better the hard truth, I say, than the comforting fantasy.”

Carl Sagan

Top
#3164096 - 09/21/18 09:29 PM Re: New guy... Cougar advice, is this as dumb as it sounds? [Re: fw707]
Kevinfarmer3456 Offline
Seasoned Member

Registered: 03/11/18
Posts: 350
Loc: Texas
Originally Posted By: fw707
Originally Posted By: Kevinfarmer3456
Originally Posted By: fw707
Originally Posted By: Kevinfarmer3456
I used to know a guy that had a predatory bird permit for his ADC work. But I have no idea what it was called or where he got it


Now that right there was a worthwhile contribution to the discussion.
If you come up with any more valuable information please let us know.

lol lol
exact example of what catdog was saying...more smart responses...lol


Hey Kevin,
Look up the definition of “obfuscation” and then let the rest of us know if you think it applies to your mentor.
not really. the way i see it is your basically a forum bully. If someone is not in your clic or agrees with u then u resort to belittling them. I think, like he said, why would he help you achive obtaining a permit if all you do is act like a 6 year old.


Edited by Kevinfarmer3456 (09/21/18 09:29 PM)

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#3164101 - 09/21/18 10:36 PM Re: New guy... Cougar advice, is this as dumb as it sounds? [Re: Kevinfarmer3456]
fw707 Offline
Retired Moderator

Registered: 03/18/09
Posts: 9367
Loc: Roadside watermelon stand
Originally Posted By: Kevinfarmer3456
Originally Posted By: fw707
Originally Posted By: Kevinfarmer3456
Originally Posted By: fw707
Originally Posted By: Kevinfarmer3456
I used to know a guy that had a predatory bird permit for his ADC work. But I have no idea what it was called or where he got it


Now that right there was a worthwhile contribution to the discussion.
If you come up with any more valuable information please let us know.

lol lol
exact example of what catdog was saying...more smart responses...lol


Hey Kevin,
Look up the definition of “obfuscation” and then let the rest of us know if you think it applies to your mentor.
not really. the way i see it is your basically a forum bully. If someone is not in your clic or agrees with u then u resort to belittling them. I think, like he said, why would he help you achive obtaining a permit if all you do is act like a 6 year old.


Ok, thanks for your opinion.
Now if you’re going to speak for your buddy maybe you can answer the questions about his permit:

What is the “type” of permit is shown at the top of the actual permit?
Does the US Fish and Wildlife Service make exemptions for possession of parts of road-killed federally protected raptors?
Is the application online where it can be printed off? What office does it need to be submitted to, and is there a fee?
Could you give me the name from the top of the permit that allows someone to legally pick up road-killed hawk and owl parts and use them as attractors and decoys while you are hunting?
Which USFWS office issued the permit?

Pretty simple questions really.

_________________________
“better the hard truth, I say, than the comforting fantasy.”

Carl Sagan

Top
#3164120 - 09/22/18 12:04 AM Re: New guy... Cougar advice, is this as dumb as it sounds? [Re: photohunter]
SlickerThanSnot Offline
PM senior

Registered: 01/31/14
Posts: 5047
Loc: stuck in a fence
its pretty simple. its pretty cut and dry.

it IS ILLEGAL for anyone, REPEAT ANYONE, to use feathers from a raptor as a decoy for predators.

if a guy claims he has a permit to do so, he is LYING.

if a guy lies about that, he very well could be lying about doing ADC. and a lot of other things.

if pointing that out hurts your feelings, to f'ing bad. get over it.

being lied to just gets to me. sorry.

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#3164140 - 09/22/18 09:15 AM Re: New guy... Cougar advice, is this as dumb as it sounds? [Re: fw707]
Kevinfarmer3456 Offline
Seasoned Member

Registered: 03/11/18
Posts: 350
Loc: Texas
Originally Posted By: fw707
Originally Posted By: Kevinfarmer3456
Originally Posted By: fw707
Originally Posted By: Kevinfarmer3456
Originally Posted By: fw707
Originally Posted By: Kevinfarmer3456
I used to know a guy that had a predatory bird permit for his ADC work. But I have no idea what it was called or where he got it


Now that right there was a worthwhile contribution to the discussion.
If you come up with any more valuable information please let us know.

lol lol
exact example of what catdog was saying...more smart responses...lol


Hey Kevin,
Look up the definition of “obfuscation” and then let the rest of us know if you think it applies to your mentor.
not really. the way i see it is your basically a forum bully. If someone is not in your clic or agrees with u then u resort to belittling them. I think, like he said, why would he help you achive obtaining a permit if all you do is act like a 6 year old.


Ok, thanks for your opinion.
Now if you’re going to speak for your buddy maybe you can answer the questions about his permit:

What is the “type” of permit is shown at the top of the actual permit?
Does the US Fish and Wildlife Service make exemptions for possession of parts of road-killed federally protected raptors?
Is the application online where it can be printed off? What office does it need to be submitted to, and is there a fee?
Could you give me the name from the top of the permit that allows someone to legally pick up road-killed hawk and owl parts and use them as attractors and decoys while you are hunting?
Which USFWS office issued the permit?

Pretty simple questions really.

heck i have no idea. I just mentioned that i had a friend that used to have some type of permit to get owls and hawks and such out of people's attics and things of that nature for his adc business.

Top
#3164147 - 09/22/18 10:10 AM Re: New guy... Cougar advice, is this as dumb as it sounds? [Re: Kevinfarmer3456]
fw707 Offline
Retired Moderator

Registered: 03/18/09
Posts: 9367
Loc: Roadside watermelon stand
Originally Posted By: Kevinfarmer3456
Originally Posted By: fw707
Originally Posted By: Kevinfarmer3456
Originally Posted By: fw707
Originally Posted By: Kevinfarmer3456
Originally Posted By: fw707
Originally Posted By: Kevinfarmer3456
I used to know a guy that had a predatory bird permit for his ADC work. But I have no idea what it was called or where he got it


Now that right there was a worthwhile contribution to the discussion.
If you come up with any more valuable information please let us know.

lol lol
exact example of what catdog was saying...more smart responses...lol


Hey Kevin,
Look up the definition of “obfuscation” and then let the rest of us know if you think it applies to your mentor.
not really. the way i see it is your basically a forum bully. If someone is not in your clic or agrees with u then u resort to belittling them. I think, like he said, why would he help you achive obtaining a permit if all you do is act like a 6 year old.


Ok, thanks for your opinion.
Now if you’re going to speak for your buddy maybe you can answer the questions about his permit:

What is the “type” of permit is shown at the top of the actual permit?
Does the US Fish and Wildlife Service make exemptions for possession of parts of road-killed federally protected raptors?
Is the application online where it can be printed off? What office does it need to be submitted to, and is there a fee?
Could you give me the name from the top of the permit that allows someone to legally pick up road-killed hawk and owl parts and use them as attractors and decoys while you are hunting?
Which USFWS office issued the permit?

Pretty simple questions really.

heck i have no idea. I just mentioned that i had a friend that used to have some type of permit to get owls and hawks and such out of people's attics and things of that nature for his adc business.


Thank you for an honest answer.

*
_________________________
“better the hard truth, I say, than the comforting fantasy.”

Carl Sagan

Top
#3164166 - 09/22/18 01:27 PM Re: New guy... Cougar advice, is this as dumb as it sounds? [Re: photohunter]
GC Offline
PM Junkie

Registered: 04/21/01
Posts: 16310
Loc: Missouri
Goodness... To the OP and to the point, hawk or owl wings have zero advantage over plain old turkey or goose feathers for decoying cats. There's no point in recommending something that is highly restricted and going to cause trouble if checked by law enforcement. I promise you, most outdoor type LE officers would become very interested in you possessing any hawk/owl/eagle ect. parts. That statement comes directly from personal experience on the LE side of things.

I have used a couple small brightly colored (white, black, red or yellow) dyed feathers from craft shops glued in with a couple of back to back turkey feathers for an excellent lightweight eye catching decoy. I used a length of monofilament fishing line with a swivel to attach that to a strong alligator type clip. The swivel allows the feathers to spin without twisting the tethering line. I hunt in the timber so there is always some brush to clip the feather tuft to. That way I don't even need a stake to pack around. Works pretty well for bobcats. I can't speak to mountain lions as I have no experience with them. Lions are definitely in my hunting area, lions have killed five elk in my hunting area in the last few years. They are around, but so far no personal sightings.

As for a lion repelling handgun, from my research about whatever you might choose for personal protection in town should serve well. These aren't African lions, our American mountain lions don't require an inordinate amount of power to kill. Any decent .357 revolver and upward would be a good choice. In semi auto I'd think anything from 9mm up with appropriate loads would convince a lion to seek other prey. I've packed all sorts of handguns in the woods over the years but have settled on a Glock 20 10mm with Underwood 200 gr. XTP hollow points at 1,250 fps. My hunting area has lots of feral hogs, a good bear population and the odd chance of a lion encounter. My G20 packs easy, it's reliable, tough and ugly enough I don't worry about sweat, rain, brush scrapes, ect. If you're not a "gun guy" a Ruger or S&W .357 revolver would be ultra simple and just as effective.

Not an authority on cougar calling but if hunting alone when choosing a place to call from I'd get something big and solid at my back like a rock bluff, ect. if possible. Calling with a partner would be a good idea. Having someone watching your backside is nice. Downside of a partner is twice the scent and movement. Don't know how human scent affects lions, bobcats can be fairly tolerant of scent. Cats hunt with their eyes and WILL see every movement you make. Good luck, hope this is somehow helpful.
_________________________
Every normal man must be tempted, at times, to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats.

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#3164171 - 09/22/18 01:44 PM Re: New guy... Cougar advice, is this as dumb as it sounds? [Re: SlickerThanSnot]
GC Offline
PM Junkie

Registered: 04/21/01
Posts: 16310
Loc: Missouri
Originally Posted By: SlickerThanSnot
hey fw707. this is all you need. should be good to go.



Strong work! LOL... smile
_________________________
Every normal man must be tempted, at times, to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats.

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#3164179 - 09/22/18 02:37 PM Re: New guy... Cougar advice, is this as dumb as it sounds? [Re: photohunter]
SlickerThanSnot Offline
PM senior

Registered: 01/31/14
Posts: 5047
Loc: stuck in a fence
somebody sent me a pm and said that was a poaching permit. lol lol

i have to much idle time. smile

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#3164192 - 09/22/18 06:56 PM Re: New guy... Cougar advice, is this as dumb as it sounds? [Re: GC]
photohunter Offline
Predator Master

Registered: 09/15/18
Posts: 61
Loc: CA
Originally Posted By: GC
Goodness... To the OP and to the point,

...

Good luck, hope this is somehow helpful.


Right on, thanks. Helpful for sure. I got as far as the fishing line on my own, but hadn't considered a swivel/clip. Cool idea.

That helps with handgun caliber too.. I had read somewhere that a cougars aren't particularly "thick skinned..." makes sense, but I certainly don't want a wounded one pissed at me. 99% of the accounts I have read (which is a lot) seem to indicate that if I'm lucky enough to see one, it'll probably want little enough to do with me that it will move off on its own. ...But it still seems dumb to be out there trying to call one without a weapon. I do have a .357...

I'll probably go out this fall aiming to call in bobcats, and see what happens.

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#3164193 - 09/22/18 07:07 PM Re: New guy... Cougar advice, is this as dumb as it sounds? [Re: GC]
fw707 Offline
Retired Moderator

Registered: 03/18/09
Posts: 9367
Loc: Roadside watermelon stand
Originally Posted By: GC
Originally Posted By: SlickerThanSnot
hey fw707. this is all you need. should be good to go.



Strong work! LOL... smile


I have already printed it out and I have a copy folded up and tucked in right beside my hunting license!!
If The Donald is for you, who can be against you??
lol
_________________________
“better the hard truth, I say, than the comforting fantasy.”

Carl Sagan

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#3164195 - 09/22/18 07:12 PM Re: New guy... Cougar advice, is this as dumb as it sounds? [Re: photohunter]
GC Offline
PM Junkie

Registered: 04/21/01
Posts: 16310
Loc: Missouri
Here is an excerpt I wrote for something else, hopefully it is helpful...

Bobcats are beautiful and wondrous creatures. Cats like thick areas of brush near a water source. Brushy overgrown fields, swampy areas, cedar glades, pine thickets, creek bottoms, rocky bluffs, old ponds or lake edges are all prime places to find bobcats. They prey on all sorts of small animals including wild turkeys. At times bobcats may even include deer in their menu. The more common fare is rabbit, mice, squirrels, and any birds they can catch. Cats love birds! They’ll pass up a fat rabbit for a stalk on a song bird. Here’s a tip - if you are a predator caller fast, high pitched birds sounds, or high pitched cottontail are prime cat sounds.

Bobcats have a short attention span and get distracted easily. They may be on the way to the call, but if the sound stops for too long and they see something else like a bird, they’ll often just wander off or sit down and quit coming in. Tip - don’t have too long of a pause between series of calls if you are a caller.

Cats hunt most with their eyes and ears. Not to say bobcats completely ignore their nose, but I’ve had bobcats directly downwind and even though I know they had a snoot full of human scent, they never batted an eye. A coyote would have been long gone in that situation! Another tip - if you are a caller, a small moving decoy will help focus the cat away from you and tends to keep them fixed on the decoy. Anything that distracts the cat from you is an advantage. Something as simple as a small cluster of feathers tied into a low hanging bush fluttering in the breeze will do the job.

Cats are stalkers and may take a long time to get to a calling stand. Most coyotes are onto a stand within 15 - 20 minutes, but a cat may take as much as an hour. They are extremely hard to see when they stalk into a stand. They use all the available cover to get close. I’ve been diligently watching as I called and suddenly realized, “Oh crap, there is a cat!“ when some little something catches my eye from a tuft of tall grass, or from behind an old stump, log, or rocky outcropping. I never know how long they’ve been there before I actually saw them. Many a caller has stood up at the end of an hour long stand and jumped a bobcat that was right in front of them all along that they had never seen. Bobcats have phenomenal eyesight and will pick apart a stand as they creep in. Fidgeting around by the hunter has saved many a cat. You must sit still and not be moving or else your chances are very low. They will also hear the slightest rustle in the leaves or creak and bump from you and your gear. Quiet is important.

With all that said, bobcats don’t always slip into the calling stand. I have had them run into a stand as aggressively as any coyote I’ve ever called. In fact, the first cat I ever called was a huge old tom that nearly ran me over, sliding to a stop in the snow only a few yards from me. Sometimes they come hard and fast and that is a special sight.

Bobcats aren’t all that bright though. As mentioned, they will often ignore a snoot full of human scent. Their natural defense is to hide and I’ve watched them hunker down and attempt to hide, all the while shooters fire at them and miss repeatedly. I’ve seen a shooter miss a bobcat twice with a .308 rifle blowing snow and debris all over it. The cat simply lay low when it could have easily ran off the backside of the ridge. I talked the shooter down and his third shot connected. Another time a fellow shot three times with a .12 gauge shotgun and No. Four Buckshot, again blowing snow and leaf debris all over the cat. Not quite sure how he managed to miss with all those shotgun pellets. The cat never moved and I finally shot the cat as the other guy was trying to stuff more shells into his empty pump gun.

Populations of bobcats can be wide spread. Home territories can be large, more so for male cats. However, even where there are a lot of them, there aren’t many.
_________________________
Every normal man must be tempted, at times, to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats.

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#3164203 - 09/22/18 08:37 PM Re: New guy... Cougar advice, is this as dumb as it sounds? [Re: GC]
fw707 Offline
Retired Moderator

Registered: 03/18/09
Posts: 9367
Loc: Roadside watermelon stand
Originally Posted By: GC
Here is an excerpt I wrote for something else, hopefully it is helpful...

Bobcats are beautiful and wondrous creatures. Cats like thick areas of brush near a water source. Brushy overgrown fields, swampy areas, cedar glades, pine thickets, creek bottoms, rocky bluffs, old ponds or lake edges are all prime places to find bobcats. They prey on all sorts of small animals including wild turkeys. At times bobcats may even include deer in their menu. The more common fare is rabbit, mice, squirrels, and any birds they can catch. Cats love birds! They’ll pass up a fat rabbit for a stalk on a song bird. Here’s a tip - if you are a predator caller fast, high pitched birds sounds, or high pitched cottontail are prime cat sounds.

Bobcats have a short attention span and get distracted easily. They may be on the way to the call, but if the sound stops for too long and they see something else like a bird, they’ll often just wander off or sit down and quit coming in. Tip - don’t have too long of a pause between series of calls if you are a caller.

Cats hunt most with their eyes and ears. Not to say bobcats completely ignore their nose, but I’ve had bobcats directly downwind and even though I know they had a snoot full of human scent, they never batted an eye. A coyote would have been long gone in that situation! Another tip - if you are a caller, a small moving decoy will help focus the cat away from you and tends to keep them fascinated on the decoy. Something as simple as a small cluster of feathers tied into a low hanging bush fluttering in the breeze will do the job.

Cats are stalkers and may take a long time to get to a calling stand. Most coyotes are onto a stand within 15 - 20 minutes, but a cat may take as much as an hour. They are extremely hard to see when they stalk into a stand. They use all the available cover to get close. I’ve been diligently watching as I called and suddenly realized, “Oh crap, there is a cat!“ when some little something catches my eye from a tuft of tall grass, or from behind an old stump, log, or rock clump. I never know how long they’ve been there before I actually saw them. Many a caller has stood up at the end of an hour long stand and jumped a bobcat that was right in front of them they had never seen. Bobcats have phenomenal eyesight and will pick apart a stand as they creep in. Fidgeting around by the hunter has saved many a cat. You must sit still and not be moving or else your chances are very low. They will also hear the slightest rustle in the leaves or creak, bump, ect. Quiet is important.

With all that said, bobcats don’t always slip into the calling stand. I have had them run into a stand as aggressively as any coyote I’ve ever called. In fact, the first cat I ever called was a huge old tom that nearly ran me over, sliding to a stop in the snow only a few yards from me. Sometimes they come hard and fast and that is a special sight.

Bobcats aren’t all that bright though. As mentioned, they will often ignore a snoot full of human scent. Their natural defense is to hide and I’ve watched them hunker down and attempt to hide, all the while shooters fire at them and miss repeatedly. I’ve seen a shooter miss a bobcat twice with a .308 blowing snow and debris all over it, and the cat simply lay low when it could have easily ran off the backside of the ridge. I talked the shooter down and his third shot connected. Another similar time a fellow shot three times with a .12 gauge shotgun and No. Four Buckshot, again blowing snow and leaf debris all over the cat. The cat never moved and I finally shot the cat as the other guy was trying to stuff shells into his pump gun.

Populations of bobcats can be wide spread. However, even where there are a lot of them, there aren’t many.


Spot on- from my limited experience.
thumbup1
_________________________
“better the hard truth, I say, than the comforting fantasy.”

Carl Sagan

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#3164204 - 09/22/18 08:44 PM Re: New guy... Cougar advice, is this as dumb as it sounds? [Re: photohunter]
photohunter Offline
Predator Master

Registered: 09/15/18
Posts: 61
Loc: CA
I had stumbled on that in my earlier searches and saved it... haha. Thanks a ton!

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#3164208 - 09/22/18 09:22 PM Re: New guy... Cougar advice, is this as dumb as it sounds? [Re: SlickerThanSnot]
fw707 Offline
Retired Moderator

Registered: 03/18/09
Posts: 9367
Loc: Roadside watermelon stand
Originally Posted By: SlickerThanSnot
assassin1 is alive and well.





Edited by reb8600 (09/26/18 02:32 AM)
_________________________
“better the hard truth, I say, than the comforting fantasy.”

Carl Sagan

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#3164461 - 09/24/18 09:50 PM Re: New guy... Cougar advice, is this as dumb as it sounds? [Re: fw707]
spotstalkshoot Offline
Die Hard Member II

Registered: 12/22/13
Posts: 1534
Loc: so.mn
What is up, 3-200 10a federal migratory Bird salvage permit. Most Ornothology professor's have these.

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#3164466 - 09/24/18 10:24 PM Re: New guy... Cougar advice, is this as dumb as it sounds? [Re: photohunter]
g Bo Offline
Die Hard Member

Registered: 04/20/14
Posts: 565
Loc: Utah
Photo hunter, sorry all this crap comes up on your post (it's been a bit bazar) it has nothing to do with your questions. I really don't think a decoy will do much if any good for calling lions. Bobcats are a totally different animal.

GC tried to bring it back to your questions (good for him) good luck in your photos. Please share if you get some photos that you hope for.

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#3164474 - 09/24/18 11:36 PM Re: New guy... Cougar advice, is this as dumb as it sounds? [Re: spotstalkshoot]
Catdog1 Offline
Die Hard Member

Registered: 02/17/16
Posts: 527
Loc: Prarie ghost
Originally Posted By: spotstalkshoot
What is up, 3-200 10a federal migratory Bird salvage permit. Most Ornothology professor's have these.
the one you speak of is for educational purposes. Mine is 300-202-7. For the ADC stuff

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#3164631 - 09/26/18 02:34 AM Re: New guy... Cougar advice, is this as dumb as it sounds? [Re: photohunter]
reb8600 Offline
Global Moderator

Registered: 10/13/04
Posts: 10799
Loc: Morgan, Utah
Some people just feel the need to turn posts bad. They just cant drop it. I believe this post is done. I will lock this one down.

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