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#3164096 - 09/21/18 09:29 PM Re: New guy... Cougar advice, is this as dumb as it sounds? [Re: fw707]
Kevinfarmer3456 Offline
Seasoned Member

Registered: 03/11/18
Posts: 351
Loc: Texas
Originally Posted By: fw707
Originally Posted By: Kevinfarmer3456
Originally Posted By: fw707
Originally Posted By: Kevinfarmer3456
I used to know a guy that had a predatory bird permit for his ADC work. But I have no idea what it was called or where he got it


Now that right there was a worthwhile contribution to the discussion.
If you come up with any more valuable information please let us know.

lol lol
exact example of what catdog was saying...more smart responses...lol


Hey Kevin,
Look up the definition of “obfuscation” and then let the rest of us know if you think it applies to your mentor.
not really. the way i see it is your basically a forum bully. If someone is not in your clic or agrees with u then u resort to belittling them. I think, like he said, why would he help you achive obtaining a permit if all you do is act like a 6 year old.


Edited by Kevinfarmer3456 (09/21/18 09:29 PM)

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#3164101 - 09/21/18 10:36 PM Re: New guy... Cougar advice, is this as dumb as it sounds? [Re: Kevinfarmer3456]
fw707 Offline
Retired Moderator

Registered: 03/18/09
Posts: 9466
Loc: Roadside watermelon stand
Originally Posted By: Kevinfarmer3456
Originally Posted By: fw707
Originally Posted By: Kevinfarmer3456
Originally Posted By: fw707
Originally Posted By: Kevinfarmer3456
I used to know a guy that had a predatory bird permit for his ADC work. But I have no idea what it was called or where he got it


Now that right there was a worthwhile contribution to the discussion.
If you come up with any more valuable information please let us know.

lol lol
exact example of what catdog was saying...more smart responses...lol


Hey Kevin,
Look up the definition of “obfuscation” and then let the rest of us know if you think it applies to your mentor.
not really. the way i see it is your basically a forum bully. If someone is not in your clic or agrees with u then u resort to belittling them. I think, like he said, why would he help you achive obtaining a permit if all you do is act like a 6 year old.


Ok, thanks for your opinion.
Now if you’re going to speak for your buddy maybe you can answer the questions about his permit:

What is the “type” of permit is shown at the top of the actual permit?
Does the US Fish and Wildlife Service make exemptions for possession of parts of road-killed federally protected raptors?
Is the application online where it can be printed off? What office does it need to be submitted to, and is there a fee?
Could you give me the name from the top of the permit that allows someone to legally pick up road-killed hawk and owl parts and use them as attractors and decoys while you are hunting?
Which USFWS office issued the permit?

Pretty simple questions really.

_________________________
“better the hard truth, I say, than the comforting fantasy.”

Carl Sagan

Top
#3164120 - 09/22/18 12:04 AM Re: New guy... Cougar advice, is this as dumb as it sounds? [Re: photohunter]
SlickerThanSnot Offline
PM senior

Registered: 01/31/14
Posts: 5791
Loc: stuck in a fence
its pretty simple. its pretty cut and dry.

it IS ILLEGAL for anyone, REPEAT ANYONE, to use feathers from a raptor as a decoy for predators.

if a guy claims he has a permit to do so, he is LYING.

if a guy lies about that, he very well could be lying about doing ADC. and a lot of other things.

if pointing that out hurts your feelings, to f'ing bad. get over it.

being lied to just gets to me. sorry.
_________________________
skeptical is what i am when told there is a dead coyote in certain far off pictures.

Top
#3164140 - 09/22/18 09:15 AM Re: New guy... Cougar advice, is this as dumb as it sounds? [Re: fw707]
Kevinfarmer3456 Offline
Seasoned Member

Registered: 03/11/18
Posts: 351
Loc: Texas
Originally Posted By: fw707
Originally Posted By: Kevinfarmer3456
Originally Posted By: fw707
Originally Posted By: Kevinfarmer3456
Originally Posted By: fw707
Originally Posted By: Kevinfarmer3456
I used to know a guy that had a predatory bird permit for his ADC work. But I have no idea what it was called or where he got it


Now that right there was a worthwhile contribution to the discussion.
If you come up with any more valuable information please let us know.

lol lol
exact example of what catdog was saying...more smart responses...lol


Hey Kevin,
Look up the definition of “obfuscation” and then let the rest of us know if you think it applies to your mentor.
not really. the way i see it is your basically a forum bully. If someone is not in your clic or agrees with u then u resort to belittling them. I think, like he said, why would he help you achive obtaining a permit if all you do is act like a 6 year old.


Ok, thanks for your opinion.
Now if you’re going to speak for your buddy maybe you can answer the questions about his permit:

What is the “type” of permit is shown at the top of the actual permit?
Does the US Fish and Wildlife Service make exemptions for possession of parts of road-killed federally protected raptors?
Is the application online where it can be printed off? What office does it need to be submitted to, and is there a fee?
Could you give me the name from the top of the permit that allows someone to legally pick up road-killed hawk and owl parts and use them as attractors and decoys while you are hunting?
Which USFWS office issued the permit?

Pretty simple questions really.

heck i have no idea. I just mentioned that i had a friend that used to have some type of permit to get owls and hawks and such out of people's attics and things of that nature for his adc business.

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#3164147 - 09/22/18 10:10 AM Re: New guy... Cougar advice, is this as dumb as it sounds? [Re: Kevinfarmer3456]
fw707 Offline
Retired Moderator

Registered: 03/18/09
Posts: 9466
Loc: Roadside watermelon stand
Originally Posted By: Kevinfarmer3456
Originally Posted By: fw707
Originally Posted By: Kevinfarmer3456
Originally Posted By: fw707
Originally Posted By: Kevinfarmer3456
Originally Posted By: fw707
Originally Posted By: Kevinfarmer3456
I used to know a guy that had a predatory bird permit for his ADC work. But I have no idea what it was called or where he got it


Now that right there was a worthwhile contribution to the discussion.
If you come up with any more valuable information please let us know.

lol lol
exact example of what catdog was saying...more smart responses...lol


Hey Kevin,
Look up the definition of “obfuscation” and then let the rest of us know if you think it applies to your mentor.
not really. the way i see it is your basically a forum bully. If someone is not in your clic or agrees with u then u resort to belittling them. I think, like he said, why would he help you achive obtaining a permit if all you do is act like a 6 year old.


Ok, thanks for your opinion.
Now if you’re going to speak for your buddy maybe you can answer the questions about his permit:

What is the “type” of permit is shown at the top of the actual permit?
Does the US Fish and Wildlife Service make exemptions for possession of parts of road-killed federally protected raptors?
Is the application online where it can be printed off? What office does it need to be submitted to, and is there a fee?
Could you give me the name from the top of the permit that allows someone to legally pick up road-killed hawk and owl parts and use them as attractors and decoys while you are hunting?
Which USFWS office issued the permit?

Pretty simple questions really.

heck i have no idea. I just mentioned that i had a friend that used to have some type of permit to get owls and hawks and such out of people's attics and things of that nature for his adc business.


Thank you for an honest answer.

*
_________________________
“better the hard truth, I say, than the comforting fantasy.”

Carl Sagan

Top
#3164166 - 09/22/18 01:27 PM Re: New guy... Cougar advice, is this as dumb as it sounds? [Re: photohunter]
GC Offline
PM Junkie

Registered: 04/21/01
Posts: 16993
Loc: Missouri
Goodness... To the OP and to the point, hawk or owl wings have zero advantage over plain old turkey or goose feathers for decoying cats. There's no point in recommending something that is highly restricted and going to cause trouble if checked by law enforcement. I promise you, most outdoor type LE officers would become very interested in you possessing any hawk/owl/eagle ect. parts. That statement comes directly from personal experience on the LE side of things.

I have used a couple small brightly colored (white, black, red or yellow) dyed feathers from craft shops glued in with a couple of back to back turkey feathers for an excellent lightweight eye catching decoy. I used a length of monofilament fishing line with a swivel to attach that to a strong alligator type clip. The swivel allows the feathers to spin without twisting the tethering line. I hunt in the timber so there is always some brush to clip the feather tuft to. That way I don't even need a stake to pack around. Works pretty well for bobcats. I can't speak to mountain lions as I have no experience with them. Lions are definitely in my hunting area, lions have killed five elk in my hunting area in the last few years. They are around, but so far no personal sightings.

As for a lion repelling handgun, from my research about whatever you might choose for personal protection in town should serve well. These aren't African lions, our American mountain lions don't require an inordinate amount of power to kill. Any decent .357 revolver and upward would be a good choice. In semi auto I'd think anything from 9mm up with appropriate loads would convince a lion to seek other prey. I've packed all sorts of handguns in the woods over the years but have settled on a Glock 20 10mm with Underwood 200 gr. XTP hollow points at 1,250 fps. My hunting area has lots of feral hogs, a good bear population and the odd chance of a lion encounter. My G20 packs easy, it's reliable, tough and ugly enough I don't worry about sweat, rain, brush scrapes, ect. If you're not a "gun guy" a Ruger or S&W .357 revolver would be ultra simple and just as effective.

Not an authority on cougar calling but if hunting alone when choosing a place to call from I'd get something big and solid at my back like a rock bluff, ect. if possible. Calling with a partner would be a good idea. Having someone watching your backside is nice. Downside of a partner is twice the scent and movement. Don't know how human scent affects lions, bobcats can be fairly tolerant of scent. Cats hunt with their eyes and WILL see every movement you make. Good luck, hope this is somehow helpful.
_________________________
Every normal man must be tempted, at times, to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats.

Top
#3164171 - 09/22/18 01:44 PM Re: New guy... Cougar advice, is this as dumb as it sounds? [Re: SlickerThanSnot]
GC Offline
PM Junkie

Registered: 04/21/01
Posts: 16993
Loc: Missouri
Originally Posted By: SlickerThanSnot
hey fw707. this is all you need. should be good to go.



Strong work! LOL... smile
_________________________
Every normal man must be tempted, at times, to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats.

Top
#3164179 - 09/22/18 02:37 PM Re: New guy... Cougar advice, is this as dumb as it sounds? [Re: photohunter]
SlickerThanSnot Offline
PM senior

Registered: 01/31/14
Posts: 5791
Loc: stuck in a fence
somebody sent me a pm and said that was a poaching permit. lol lol

i have to much idle time. smile
_________________________
skeptical is what i am when told there is a dead coyote in certain far off pictures.

Top
#3164192 - 09/22/18 06:56 PM Re: New guy... Cougar advice, is this as dumb as it sounds? [Re: GC]
photohunter Offline
Predator Master

Registered: 09/15/18
Posts: 65
Loc: CA
Originally Posted By: GC
Goodness... To the OP and to the point,

...

Good luck, hope this is somehow helpful.


Right on, thanks. Helpful for sure. I got as far as the fishing line on my own, but hadn't considered a swivel/clip. Cool idea.

That helps with handgun caliber too.. I had read somewhere that a cougars aren't particularly "thick skinned..." makes sense, but I certainly don't want a wounded one pissed at me. 99% of the accounts I have read (which is a lot) seem to indicate that if I'm lucky enough to see one, it'll probably want little enough to do with me that it will move off on its own. ...But it still seems dumb to be out there trying to call one without a weapon. I do have a .357...

I'll probably go out this fall aiming to call in bobcats, and see what happens.

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#3164193 - 09/22/18 07:07 PM Re: New guy... Cougar advice, is this as dumb as it sounds? [Re: GC]
fw707 Offline
Retired Moderator

Registered: 03/18/09
Posts: 9466
Loc: Roadside watermelon stand
Originally Posted By: GC
Originally Posted By: SlickerThanSnot
hey fw707. this is all you need. should be good to go.



Strong work! LOL... smile


I have already printed it out and I have a copy folded up and tucked in right beside my hunting license!!
If The Donald is for you, who can be against you??
lol
_________________________
“better the hard truth, I say, than the comforting fantasy.”

Carl Sagan

Top
#3164195 - 09/22/18 07:12 PM Re: New guy... Cougar advice, is this as dumb as it sounds? [Re: photohunter]
GC Offline
PM Junkie

Registered: 04/21/01
Posts: 16993
Loc: Missouri
Here is an excerpt I wrote for something else, hopefully it is helpful...

Bobcats are beautiful and wondrous creatures. Cats like thick areas of brush near a water source. Brushy overgrown fields, swampy areas, cedar glades, pine thickets, creek bottoms, rocky bluffs, old ponds or lake edges are all prime places to find bobcats. They prey on all sorts of small animals including wild turkeys. At times bobcats may even include deer in their menu. The more common fare is rabbit, mice, squirrels, and any birds they can catch. Cats love birds! They’ll pass up a fat rabbit for a stalk on a song bird. Here’s a tip - if you are a predator caller fast, high pitched birds sounds, or high pitched cottontail are prime cat sounds.

Bobcats have a short attention span and get distracted easily. They may be on the way to the call, but if the sound stops for too long and they see something else like a bird, they’ll often just wander off or sit down and quit coming in. Tip - don’t have too long of a pause between series of calls if you are a caller.

Cats hunt most with their eyes and ears. Not to say bobcats completely ignore their nose, but I’ve had bobcats directly downwind and even though I know they had a snoot full of human scent, they never batted an eye. A coyote would have been long gone in that situation! Another tip - if you are a caller, a small moving decoy will help focus the cat away from you and tends to keep them fixed on the decoy. Anything that distracts the cat from you is an advantage. Something as simple as a small cluster of feathers tied into a low hanging bush fluttering in the breeze will do the job.

Cats are stalkers and may take a long time to get to a calling stand. Most coyotes are onto a stand within 15 - 20 minutes, but a cat may take as much as an hour. They are extremely hard to see when they stalk into a stand. They use all the available cover to get close. I’ve been diligently watching as I called and suddenly realized, “Oh crap, there is a cat!“ when some little something catches my eye from a tuft of tall grass, or from behind an old stump, log, or rocky outcropping. I never know how long they’ve been there before I actually saw them. Many a caller has stood up at the end of an hour long stand and jumped a bobcat that was right in front of them all along that they had never seen. Bobcats have phenomenal eyesight and will pick apart a stand as they creep in. Fidgeting around by the hunter has saved many a cat. You must sit still and not be moving or else your chances are very low. They will also hear the slightest rustle in the leaves or creak and bump from you and your gear. Quiet is important.

With all that said, bobcats don’t always slip into the calling stand. I have had them run into a stand as aggressively as any coyote I’ve ever called. In fact, the first cat I ever called was a huge old tom that nearly ran me over, sliding to a stop in the snow only a few yards from me. Sometimes they come hard and fast and that is a special sight.

Bobcats aren’t all that bright though. As mentioned, they will often ignore a snoot full of human scent. Their natural defense is to hide and I’ve watched them hunker down and attempt to hide, all the while shooters fire at them and miss repeatedly. I’ve seen a shooter miss a bobcat twice with a .308 rifle blowing snow and debris all over it. The cat simply lay low when it could have easily ran off the backside of the ridge. I talked the shooter down and his third shot connected. Another time a fellow shot three times with a .12 gauge shotgun and No. Four Buckshot, again blowing snow and leaf debris all over the cat. Not quite sure how he managed to miss with all those shotgun pellets. The cat never moved and I finally shot the cat as the other guy was trying to stuff more shells into his empty pump gun.

Populations of bobcats can be wide spread. Home territories can be large, more so for male cats. However, even where there are a lot of them, there aren’t many.
_________________________
Every normal man must be tempted, at times, to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats.

Top
#3164203 - 09/22/18 08:37 PM Re: New guy... Cougar advice, is this as dumb as it sounds? [Re: GC]
fw707 Offline
Retired Moderator

Registered: 03/18/09
Posts: 9466
Loc: Roadside watermelon stand
Originally Posted By: GC
Here is an excerpt I wrote for something else, hopefully it is helpful...

Bobcats are beautiful and wondrous creatures. Cats like thick areas of brush near a water source. Brushy overgrown fields, swampy areas, cedar glades, pine thickets, creek bottoms, rocky bluffs, old ponds or lake edges are all prime places to find bobcats. They prey on all sorts of small animals including wild turkeys. At times bobcats may even include deer in their menu. The more common fare is rabbit, mice, squirrels, and any birds they can catch. Cats love birds! They’ll pass up a fat rabbit for a stalk on a song bird. Here’s a tip - if you are a predator caller fast, high pitched birds sounds, or high pitched cottontail are prime cat sounds.

Bobcats have a short attention span and get distracted easily. They may be on the way to the call, but if the sound stops for too long and they see something else like a bird, they’ll often just wander off or sit down and quit coming in. Tip - don’t have too long of a pause between series of calls if you are a caller.

Cats hunt most with their eyes and ears. Not to say bobcats completely ignore their nose, but I’ve had bobcats directly downwind and even though I know they had a snoot full of human scent, they never batted an eye. A coyote would have been long gone in that situation! Another tip - if you are a caller, a small moving decoy will help focus the cat away from you and tends to keep them fascinated on the decoy. Something as simple as a small cluster of feathers tied into a low hanging bush fluttering in the breeze will do the job.

Cats are stalkers and may take a long time to get to a calling stand. Most coyotes are onto a stand within 15 - 20 minutes, but a cat may take as much as an hour. They are extremely hard to see when they stalk into a stand. They use all the available cover to get close. I’ve been diligently watching as I called and suddenly realized, “Oh crap, there is a cat!“ when some little something catches my eye from a tuft of tall grass, or from behind an old stump, log, or rock clump. I never know how long they’ve been there before I actually saw them. Many a caller has stood up at the end of an hour long stand and jumped a bobcat that was right in front of them they had never seen. Bobcats have phenomenal eyesight and will pick apart a stand as they creep in. Fidgeting around by the hunter has saved many a cat. You must sit still and not be moving or else your chances are very low. They will also hear the slightest rustle in the leaves or creak, bump, ect. Quiet is important.

With all that said, bobcats don’t always slip into the calling stand. I have had them run into a stand as aggressively as any coyote I’ve ever called. In fact, the first cat I ever called was a huge old tom that nearly ran me over, sliding to a stop in the snow only a few yards from me. Sometimes they come hard and fast and that is a special sight.

Bobcats aren’t all that bright though. As mentioned, they will often ignore a snoot full of human scent. Their natural defense is to hide and I’ve watched them hunker down and attempt to hide, all the while shooters fire at them and miss repeatedly. I’ve seen a shooter miss a bobcat twice with a .308 blowing snow and debris all over it, and the cat simply lay low when it could have easily ran off the backside of the ridge. I talked the shooter down and his third shot connected. Another similar time a fellow shot three times with a .12 gauge shotgun and No. Four Buckshot, again blowing snow and leaf debris all over the cat. The cat never moved and I finally shot the cat as the other guy was trying to stuff shells into his pump gun.

Populations of bobcats can be wide spread. However, even where there are a lot of them, there aren’t many.


Spot on- from my limited experience.
thumbup1
_________________________
“better the hard truth, I say, than the comforting fantasy.”

Carl Sagan

Top
#3164204 - 09/22/18 08:44 PM Re: New guy... Cougar advice, is this as dumb as it sounds? [Re: photohunter]
photohunter Offline
Predator Master

Registered: 09/15/18
Posts: 65
Loc: CA
I had stumbled on that in my earlier searches and saved it... haha. Thanks a ton!

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#3164208 - 09/22/18 09:22 PM Re: New guy... Cougar advice, is this as dumb as it sounds? [Re: SlickerThanSnot]
fw707 Offline
Retired Moderator

Registered: 03/18/09
Posts: 9466
Loc: Roadside watermelon stand
Originally Posted By: SlickerThanSnot
assassin1 is alive and well.





Edited by reb8600 (09/26/18 02:32 AM)
_________________________
“better the hard truth, I say, than the comforting fantasy.”

Carl Sagan

Top
#3164461 - 09/24/18 09:50 PM Re: New guy... Cougar advice, is this as dumb as it sounds? [Re: fw707]
spotstalkshoot Offline
Die Hard Member III

Registered: 12/22/13
Posts: 2418
Loc: so.mn
What is up, 3-200 10a federal migratory Bird salvage permit. Most Ornothology professor's have these.

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