shotgun for yotes

Originally Posted By: GCWhy #2's?

Several years ago I was given a metal 5 gallon bucket full of #2 magnum lead shot...

When Hodgdon came out with their high velocity 1 1/8 oz. loads using Longshot powder years ago, I started loading and shooting some of them with spectacular results!

Studying all of their loads and with all of the components they had listed, I used my pressure trace barrel to develope a buffered load of magnum lead #2 shot...

I have used these loads for crows ever since.

I have also been on a couple of European pheasant shoots, and these same loads performed admirably on those long to very long shots...
 
Originally Posted By: Displayed Name Good to see more shotgun guru’s here I know I appreciate learning from others hard work. Maybe 1ASSASSIN could load up $100 of that heavier than lead shot DAA uses. Anyhow you guys do interesting work and thanks for sharing.

I have given that some consideration, but there is no way I am going to pay those prices for shot!

I have several buddies in Canada that shoot the "heavyweight" shot at geese, and what these guys are doing puts my loads to shame!
 
Free shot is enough reason I guess. I ask because #2 isn't a usual preferred size for crows. But again, free lead is good lead.
 
Quote:Most of the pellets that hit the ribs were a complete pass through. The pellets that hit the front shoulder and hind quarter did not pass all the way through...

Lead T is giving complete broadside penetration at 100 yards?. Derbyacresbob has a computer program to predict pellet penetration at various ranges. It would be interesting how that program compares to this.
 
Originally Posted By: GCFree shot is enough reason I guess. I ask because #2 isn't a usual preferred size for crows. But again, free lead is good lead.

If given a choice in the matter, in order, I would rather have had #6, #5 or #4, but #2 would have never even been a consideration. It was probably 2 years before I even opened that bucket, and busting crows was the first thing that came to mind...
 
Originally Posted By: GCQuote:Most of the pellets that hit the ribs were a complete pass through. The pellets that hit the front shoulder and hind quarter did not pass all the way through...

Lead T is giving complete broadside penetration at 100 yards?. Derbyacresbob has a computer program to predict pellet penetration at various ranges. It would be interesting how that program compares to this.


As stated, most pellets that hit the ribs were complete pass throughs, but when the pellets hit the front shoulder or hind quarter, most did not pass completely through!
 
assassin, you be interested in a little bet? like $100?

i know a guy that lives within 10 miles of you. he has told me he would be an impartial first hand witness to some of your shotgun patterns.

not word for word, but close enough, your claim is "my 2-3/4" hand loads with 48 lead T pellets in it, can, and will, put 15 of those 48 pellets in a 10" circle at 100 yards three times out of ten."

i would pay to see that. $100 to you if you can do it.

if you cant, you pay me $100.

we both agree that the impartial witness gives the final verdict.

you up for it?
 
The KPY Shotshell Ballistic Program is not perfect. I asked the guy that built this program about lead shot deforming on impact and he said that is not figured in on the penetration shown for lead shot. So the actual penetration you get with lead shot is less than what the KPY Shotshell Ballistics shows.

He said that he came up with the KPY Shotshell Ballistics for steel shot and shot that is hard and keeps it's round shape during the shell set back and on impact.

When I first started using Remington HD BB shot because I couldn't legally use lead shot anymore on coyotes. I saw right away that the Rem HD shot out penetrated the lead BB, BBB and T shot that I had been using on coyotes. I was seeing way more broken bones an exit holes with the harder and denser Rem HD shot.

For checking penetration I shot some catalogs with lead loads and Remington HD and Hevi-Shot T shot loads. The harder denser tungsten alloy shot types out penetrated the lead loads by a huge margin.

Some of the pellet counts are off when using KPY. The actual pellet sizes can vary and if the density is a little high or low that will also make the pellet count be off some. I have noticed that KPY's T lead shot pellet count is not the same as the T shot I use to buy from BPI and KPY's 15g/cc #2 shot has a higher pellet count than the Federal Heavyweight #2 shot that I robbed out of the factory 3" Federal Heavyweight shells.

I shot lots of coyotes with lead BB, lead BBB and lead T shot from 30 yards to 50 yards away and I don't remember seeing many if any pellets completely passing through our 20 lb to 35 lb coyotes. Most of the time these lead shot loads left the pellets just under the skin on the opposite side of the entry.

For shotgunning coyotes I like to have my 40 yard patterns to be about twice as big as 1ASSASSIN's 100 yard T shot pattern pictures. From what I have seen from killing lots of coyotes with shotgun loads, I like to have over 70 pellets per shell. Having 80 to 100 hard and dense pellets per shell with a 20" wide pattern really helps to kill the coyotes quicker and more consistently.

Most of the coyotes I shoot with a shotgun are running shots not standing shots.

These below numbers are from KPY Shotshell Ballitics. I use 3.70" of gel penetration for what is needed to reliably kill or break down coyotes. KPY says to use 2.50" of gel penetration to reliably kill geese.
Lead T shot at 1300 fps gets 3.70" of gel penetration at 66.0 yards, at 66.0 yards, was 713 fps
Lead T shot at 1300 fps gets 2.77" of gel penetration at 100 yards, at 100 yards, was 558 fps
Lead BB shot at 1300 fps gets 3.70" of gel penetration at 46.1 yards, at 46.1 yards, was 792 fps
Rem HD BB shot at 1300 fps gets 3.70" of gel penetration at 62.4 yards, at 62.4 yards, was 726 fps
Fed HW 15g/cc #2 at 1300 fps gets 3.70" of gel penetration at 70.5 yards, at 70.5 yards, was 697 fps
TSS #2 shot at 1300 fps gets 3.70" of gel penetration at 115.5 yards, at 115.5 yards, was 581 fps

It's to bad that no ammo manufacturers have come out with lead coyote loads in shot sizes BBB or T shot. Both the lead BBB and T shot are big enough to get the job done and they have much higher pellet counts than lead number 4 buck has.



 
Those are interesting numbers Bob. I've seen significant deformation from factory loaded plated lead No. Four Buck both on real critters and testing. The Tungsten BB & T shot has proven by both testing and on real coyotes to provide superior penetration and break bones far better than lead Four Buck. Lead T at 100 yard giving complete broadside penetration... maybe. I'll admit I'm skeptical...
 
Originally Posted By: SlickerThanSnotassassin, you be interested in a little bet? like $100?

i know a guy that lives within 10 miles of you. he has told me he would be an impartial first hand witness to some of your shotgun patterns.

not word for word, but close enough, your claim is "my 2-3/4" hand loads with 48 lead T pellets in it, can, and will, put 15 of those 48 pellets in a 10" circle at 100 yards three times out of ten."

i would pay to see that. $100 to you if you can do it.

if you cant, you pay me $100.

we both agree that the impartial witness gives the final verdict.

you up for it?



Sounds fair... and an interesting challenge.
 
I think I had some pretty impartial witnesses with my pastor, his wife and his dad...

I know nothing about the "kpy" that you speak of, but velocity @ 3 feet in front of the muzzle is 1,410 fps. if that makes any difference.
 
I have a phone number for PricewaterhouseCoopers if this gets really serious.
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In a pinch, I've actually had an audience with the Pope in my life. I'm not sure how much pull I might have, but maybe he'd be wiling to park the Pope Mobile on the range and look in as an unbiased observer since religion seems to be part of this verification process. Of course, we might need Protestant clergy, etc. to keep everyone balanced and happy.
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Just sayin'..........
 
Originally Posted By: 1ASSASSINI think I had some pretty impartial witnesses with my pastor, his wife and his dad...



i dont care if God himself was a witness. if He dont tell me he saw you do it it, and he hasnt, i am not buying it.

we going to make a bet or not?
 
This is great fun reading. I'm certain nobody is getting hurt feeling. I always say if your feelings get hurt, you shouldn't have had them out playing!
I'm willing to make a contribution towards a collective pot. I for one support that the shots were in deed made. Sort biased in the law enforcement support and integrity that must be maintained.
 
Quote:
Most of the coyotes I shoot with a shotgun are running shots not standing shots.

That's cuz of all them buteful pictures you take!
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Bout time to post some more!
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Regards,
hm
 
Originally Posted By: SlickerThanSnotOriginally Posted By: ackleymanI smell a crow cooking! Anybody care for a plate full! Heee Heee!!!



only thing i smell is crayfish.

We call them "crawdads" in the Ozark's...
 
Originally Posted By: 1ASSASSINI think I had some pretty impartial witnesses with my pastor, his wife and his dad...

I know nothing about the "kpy" that you speak of, but velocity @ 3 feet in front of the muzzle is 1,410 fps. if that makes any difference.

1410 fps for a 2-3/4" 12 ga 1-1/2 oz load is smokin fast. Hodgdon's fastest 1-1/2 oz load data for Longshot powder in a Federal Gold Medal hull is 1315 fps at 11,500 psi which is MAX pressure for a 12 ga 2-3/4" shell.

I had some 3" Fiocch 12 ga 1-1/2 oz loads tested and they were 12,563 avg psi which is 1,063 psi over Max pressure and they only averaged 1317 fps.

You can buy the KPY Shotshell Ballistics from BPI it is really cool to tinker around with. It is hard to believe how much more efficient the denser shot types are over steel shot and lead shot.

https://www.ballisticproducts.com/KPY-Shotshell-Ballistics-v20-select-CD-or-USB/productinfo/716KPYB/

The difference between. 1300 fps and 1410 fps with lead T shot.

1300 fps lead T shot gets 3.70" of gel penetration at 66.0 yards
1410 fps lead T shot gets 3.70" of gel penetration at 71.8 yards
 
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