BillfromHighland
Member
For owners of Springfield's new 911, how do you like it?
Appreciate all feedback.
Appreciate all feedback.
Springfield 911
- Thread starter BillfromHighland
- Start date
RePete
New member
Another option if you like a triditional 1911.
http://www.browning.com/products/firearms/pistols/1911-380.html
I have one in 22LR....love it.
http://www.browning.com/products/firearms/pistols/1911-380.html
I have one in 22LR....love it.
Winny Fan
New member
Originally Posted By: willy1947
First I would not buy one to much money for a 380acp.
There are many 380acp for a lot less. Sorry.
Cheaper is not always the best route to take if you're carrying the pistol as a potential life saver.
Between the Springfield and the Sig, I'd take the Sig 238 simply because it has a longer track record for reliability and it fits well in a pocket as a true pocket pistol for warm weather carry. But I'm sure the Springer is a good pistol also.
And don't let the internet convince you that you need more power in a close range protector type pistol. None of them will incapacitate another person totally just because of the caliber or the cartridge name stamped on the barrel or the slide. Shot placement does that.
I just know I don't want to be on the receiving end of a lowly .380 ACP at close range. Unless you're planning a gun fight at the North Pole on Valentines Day when very heavy clothing might be involved, the .380 ACP will do the job just fine if it's what you shoot best. A Wonder Nine or a 40 S&W can get pretty sporty in a pocket type pistol unless you have time to practice with it a bunch.
First I would not buy one to much money for a 380acp.
There are many 380acp for a lot less. Sorry.
Cheaper is not always the best route to take if you're carrying the pistol as a potential life saver.
Between the Springfield and the Sig, I'd take the Sig 238 simply because it has a longer track record for reliability and it fits well in a pocket as a true pocket pistol for warm weather carry. But I'm sure the Springer is a good pistol also.
And don't let the internet convince you that you need more power in a close range protector type pistol. None of them will incapacitate another person totally just because of the caliber or the cartridge name stamped on the barrel or the slide. Shot placement does that.
I just know I don't want to be on the receiving end of a lowly .380 ACP at close range. Unless you're planning a gun fight at the North Pole on Valentines Day when very heavy clothing might be involved, the .380 ACP will do the job just fine if it's what you shoot best. A Wonder Nine or a 40 S&W can get pretty sporty in a pocket type pistol unless you have time to practice with it a bunch.
Plant.One
Well-known member
unless your budget allows nothing else - the cost of either the firearm or the ammo shouldnt have any consideration into the conversation when it comes to self defense. I mean.. i get it... if all you can afford is a $150 hipoint 9mm and some ball ammo - its a helluva lot better than trying to defend yourself with a wet noodle. but generally speaking, buy the best ammo you can get your hands on, and run it in the most reliable firearm you can afford.
the more important thing to consider i believe - beyond the age old caliber debate - modern bullet construction and test results of said projectiles.
anyone carrying for self defense should probably take a LONG read of this information, and pay attention to the gel test image results and penetration tests. you might be QUITE surprised. knowing what your bullet does once it hits should play a strong consideration as to not only what caliber you carry, but also what you're putting in your firearm.
https://www.luckygunner.com/labs/self-defense-ammo-ballistic-tests/
just some food for thought.
the more important thing to consider i believe - beyond the age old caliber debate - modern bullet construction and test results of said projectiles.
anyone carrying for self defense should probably take a LONG read of this information, and pay attention to the gel test image results and penetration tests. you might be QUITE surprised. knowing what your bullet does once it hits should play a strong consideration as to not only what caliber you carry, but also what you're putting in your firearm.
https://www.luckygunner.com/labs/self-defense-ammo-ballistic-tests/
just some food for thought.
willy1947
Active member
While, Mr. Browning was designed the 1911, he designed a .380acp.
The Browning 1910 that started WW1. I got this pistol from my Dad.
Made in the 1960's. Made in Belgium. It has a grip safety & one on the slide.
They just can not make them like this any more. All steel parts and plastic grips.
If you can find an old browning somewhere, Buy it.
380acp were loader hotter back then than now.
You may have to buy a reduced spring for it, Wolf makes them.
This is a true pocket pistol from the past. See how the trigger is made.
NdIndy
New member
Originally Posted By: Plant.Oneunless your budget allows nothing else - the cost of either the firearm or the ammo shouldnt have any consideration into the conversation when it comes to self defense. I mean.. i get it... if all you can afford is a $150 hipoint 9mm and some ball ammo - its a helluva lot better than trying to defend yourself with a wet noodle. but generally speaking, buy the best ammo you can get your hands on, and run it in the most reliable firearm you can afford.
the more important thing to consider i believe - beyond the age old caliber debate - modern bullet construction and test results of said projectiles.
anyone carrying for self defense should probably take a LONG read of this information, and pay attention to the gel test image results and penetration tests. you might be QUITE surprised. knowing what your bullet does once it hits should play a strong consideration as to not only what caliber you carry, but also what you're putting in your firearm.
https://www.luckygunner.com/labs/self-defense-ammo-ballistic-tests/
just some food for thought.
I recall having a loooooooooong discussion about the minimum sd caliber a while back with a rookie cop. I don't know how long he'd actually been working but his beliefs were right up there with a badge that still smells slightly of its packing matetial.
Anyway his argument was the minimum caliber delivered xxx energy at 50 yards and be able to group at a fraction of an incn. so you MUST have a super duper louder boomer magnum,bare minimum in case you are involved in a shootout where your attackers are at 1 end of an alley and you're at the other. Real argument there.
My stance, 1. sd starts at your fingertips and goes out about 7 yards. If your attacker is 50 yards away you're not defending yourself, you're shooting at someone, which is a whole other thing.
2. Not everyone who feels the need to carry is capable of controlling his recommended minimum.
And 3. At sd ranges (fingertips) sights don't matter. At all. In fact they slow you down a lot at yupical sd ranges. And do t get me started on close range lasers
Or to be more crude, I suggest you file the front sight off of your super duper because it will hurt a lot less when someone shoves it up your [beeep].
4. Going on to the human reaction to getting shot, Yada yada yada, im perfectly fine saying a .380 pocket pistol is perfectly fine for true sd.
It's not ideal, but it will do the job. I wouldnt carry one as my duty carry because that job REQUIRES better tools. But id have it tucked in my vest ecause when im reaching for it the job has changed and the requirements change as well. Fortunately I don't concern myself with those requirements anymore. I still have 1, I've got better tools, but sometimes the 380 is the tool that gets used. My glock doesn't fit in my shorts pockets and it leaves an odd bulge in my speedos
Yeah baby, middle aged man packing a glock in his speedos. Try to get that image out of your head when you're getting ready for bed tonight
the more important thing to consider i believe - beyond the age old caliber debate - modern bullet construction and test results of said projectiles.
anyone carrying for self defense should probably take a LONG read of this information, and pay attention to the gel test image results and penetration tests. you might be QUITE surprised. knowing what your bullet does once it hits should play a strong consideration as to not only what caliber you carry, but also what you're putting in your firearm.
https://www.luckygunner.com/labs/self-defense-ammo-ballistic-tests/
just some food for thought.
I recall having a loooooooooong discussion about the minimum sd caliber a while back with a rookie cop. I don't know how long he'd actually been working but his beliefs were right up there with a badge that still smells slightly of its packing matetial.
Anyway his argument was the minimum caliber delivered xxx energy at 50 yards and be able to group at a fraction of an incn. so you MUST have a super duper louder boomer magnum,bare minimum in case you are involved in a shootout where your attackers are at 1 end of an alley and you're at the other. Real argument there.
My stance, 1. sd starts at your fingertips and goes out about 7 yards. If your attacker is 50 yards away you're not defending yourself, you're shooting at someone, which is a whole other thing.
2. Not everyone who feels the need to carry is capable of controlling his recommended minimum.
And 3. At sd ranges (fingertips) sights don't matter. At all. In fact they slow you down a lot at yupical sd ranges. And do t get me started on close range lasers
4. Going on to the human reaction to getting shot, Yada yada yada, im perfectly fine saying a .380 pocket pistol is perfectly fine for true sd.
It's not ideal, but it will do the job. I wouldnt carry one as my duty carry because that job REQUIRES better tools. But id have it tucked in my vest ecause when im reaching for it the job has changed and the requirements change as well. Fortunately I don't concern myself with those requirements anymore. I still have 1, I've got better tools, but sometimes the 380 is the tool that gets used. My glock doesn't fit in my shorts pockets and it leaves an odd bulge in my speedos
Yeah baby, middle aged man packing a glock in his speedos. Try to get that image out of your head when you're getting ready for bed tonight
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Winny Fan
New member
Originally Posted By: NdIndyOriginally Posted By: Plant.Oneunless your budget allows nothing else - the cost of either the firearm or the ammo shouldnt have any consideration into the conversation when it comes to self defense. I mean.. i get it... if all you can afford is a $150 hipoint 9mm and some ball ammo - its a helluva lot better than trying to defend yourself with a wet noodle. but generally speaking, buy the best ammo you can get your hands on, and run it in the most reliable firearm you can afford.
the more important thing to consider i believe - beyond the age old caliber debate - modern bullet construction and test results of said projectiles.
anyone carrying for self defense should probably take a LONG read of this information, and pay attention to the gel test image results and penetration tests. you might be QUITE surprised. knowing what your bullet does once it hits should play a strong consideration as to not only what caliber you carry, but also what you're putting in your firearm.
https://www.luckygunner.com/labs/self-defense-ammo-ballistic-tests/
just some food for thought.
I recall having a loooooooooong discussion about the minimum sd caliber a while back with a rookie cop. I don't know how long he'd actually been working but his beliefs were right up there with a badge that still smells slightly of its packing matetial.
Anyway his argument was the minimum caliber delivered xxx energy at 50 yards and be able to group at a fraction of an incn. so you MUST have a super duper louder boomer magnum,bare minimum in case you are involved in a shootout where your attackers are at 1 end of an alley and you're at the other. Real argument there.
My stance, 1. sd starts at your fingertips and goes out about 7 yards. If your attacker is 50 yards away you're not defending yourself, you're shooting at someone, which is a whole other thing.
2. Not everyone who feels the need to carry is capable of controlling his recommended minimum.
And 3. At sd ranges (fingertips) sights don't matter. At all. In fact they slow you down a lot at yupical sd ranges. And do t get me started on close range lasers
Or to be more crude, I suggest you file the front sight off of your super duper because it will hurt a lot less when someone shoves it up your [beeep].
4. Going on to the human reaction to getting shot, Yada yada yada, im perfectly fine saying a .380 pocket pistol is perfectly fine for true sd.
It's not ideal, but it will do the job. I wouldnt carry one as my duty carry because that job REQUIRES better tools. But id have it tucked in my vest ecause when im reaching for it the job has changed and the requirements change as well. Fortunately I don't concern myself with those requirements anymore. I still have 1, I've got better tools, but sometimes the 380 is the tool that gets used. My glock doesn't fit in my shorts pockets and it leaves an odd bulge in my speedos
Yeah baby, middle aged man packing a glock in his speedos. Try to get that image out of your head when you're getting ready for bed tonight
Your thoughts on the usefulness of the 380 ACP are spot on. It's a pretty good defensive round for CC and close range work .
The mental and visual images your post leaves are disturbing.
the more important thing to consider i believe - beyond the age old caliber debate - modern bullet construction and test results of said projectiles.
anyone carrying for self defense should probably take a LONG read of this information, and pay attention to the gel test image results and penetration tests. you might be QUITE surprised. knowing what your bullet does once it hits should play a strong consideration as to not only what caliber you carry, but also what you're putting in your firearm.
https://www.luckygunner.com/labs/self-defense-ammo-ballistic-tests/
just some food for thought.
I recall having a loooooooooong discussion about the minimum sd caliber a while back with a rookie cop. I don't know how long he'd actually been working but his beliefs were right up there with a badge that still smells slightly of its packing matetial.
Anyway his argument was the minimum caliber delivered xxx energy at 50 yards and be able to group at a fraction of an incn. so you MUST have a super duper louder boomer magnum,bare minimum in case you are involved in a shootout where your attackers are at 1 end of an alley and you're at the other. Real argument there.
My stance, 1. sd starts at your fingertips and goes out about 7 yards. If your attacker is 50 yards away you're not defending yourself, you're shooting at someone, which is a whole other thing.
2. Not everyone who feels the need to carry is capable of controlling his recommended minimum.
And 3. At sd ranges (fingertips) sights don't matter. At all. In fact they slow you down a lot at yupical sd ranges. And do t get me started on close range lasers
4. Going on to the human reaction to getting shot, Yada yada yada, im perfectly fine saying a .380 pocket pistol is perfectly fine for true sd.
It's not ideal, but it will do the job. I wouldnt carry one as my duty carry because that job REQUIRES better tools. But id have it tucked in my vest ecause when im reaching for it the job has changed and the requirements change as well. Fortunately I don't concern myself with those requirements anymore. I still have 1, I've got better tools, but sometimes the 380 is the tool that gets used. My glock doesn't fit in my shorts pockets and it leaves an odd bulge in my speedos
Yeah baby, middle aged man packing a glock in his speedos. Try to get that image out of your head when you're getting ready for bed tonight
Your thoughts on the usefulness of the 380 ACP are spot on. It's a pretty good defensive round for CC and close range work .
The mental and visual images your post leaves are disturbing.
BillfromHighland
Member
Great advice! Mental image.........not so much!
GC
Well-known member
Quote:...If your attacker is 50 yards away you're not defending yourself, you're shooting at someone, which is a whole other thing.
I'll respectfully disagree with this statement. If my attacker is 50 yards away and shooting at me, regardless of distance that person is still presenting a deadly threat and any shots I fire in return are in fact in self defense. Is that a likely self defense scenario for a citizen? Most likely not, but stranger things have happened.
I'll respectfully disagree with this statement. If my attacker is 50 yards away and shooting at me, regardless of distance that person is still presenting a deadly threat and any shots I fire in return are in fact in self defense. Is that a likely self defense scenario for a citizen? Most likely not, but stranger things have happened.
NdIndy
New member
In the grand scheme of things considering all possibilities no matter how remote, the only acceptable self defense firearm is a .50 Barrett with alternating armor piercing and incendiary ammo coupled with a call into air support to a drop a moab on a remote hillside. Because why not
since I can't find the obvious joke font, I'm pointing out specifically the above is supposed to be humor and not me trying to be a jerk
But if we're going to group every possible scenario where you may have to defend yourself together as self defense, the 50 has to be included.
Here is my rationale.
I limit "true sd" as out to 7 yards for a couple reasons. The first is just simple logic. Nobody is going to step into the alley 50 yards behind you and announce that they are coming to rob/murder/rape you (hopefully in that order). The Bg will always close distance with you. They want to grab you they want to be able to conduct their business at no louder than a normal speaking volume. Typically if things go right for the bg they will close enough to boop your nose before you know they're a threat.
If you can gain 50 yards of space, odds are you're safe. No reason to stop and fight, keep going. Your goal is to escape, not to fight. My job was (thankfully not anymore) to be the guy who went into the alley to fight. You get safe, let me work.
Which brings me back to my sights being pointless remark. You'll be able to press the muzzle into their ribs, if you miss then, no sight is going to help.
2nd, 7 yards puts the bg well into threat range. An average man can cover 7 yards and stab you in the neck in less time than it takes A WELL TRAINED and most importantly PREPARED cop to draw from a level 1 holster and place 1 shot on target. The only thing faster than a lvl 1, is already having the pistol in your hand. Cc holster are slow and clumsy in general.
Also 7 yards is about the limit an average person can point aim and place a round on target. When I was much more practiced I could do it consistently to 25, but I carried an expert rating and put a metric ton of lead downrange every month.
So your target is both within viable threat range, and in viable target range at the same time. At 50 yards, they are a possible threat, and a possible target, assuming both you and they are well practiced with a pistol and capable of putting shots on target at those ranges. If you are not a 50 yard shot with a pistol (few are) *while being shot at yourself and scared out of your mind* (which almost nobody is), it doesn't matter what you're carrying. A starter pistol with blanks will have the exact same effect as a 9mm, a 40, a 45acp etc.
Ask yourself, realistically, *How food am I at 50 yards? How good am I at 50 yards while I'm jumping up and down, ducking, juking, probably peeing myself, crying, while my target is doing the exact same thing?* How much ammo do you carry? My duty carry was 14 in the gun, 2 mags of 13 each. That gave me 38 attempts to make 1 count, and we definitely trained to not spray and pray because 38 goes a whole lot faster than you think when you really don't want to die.
My sd if I'm carrying a pocket, 7. 6 more with a spare mag. Can I honestly afford to waste ANY of those 12 rounds just making noise, which I am statistically likely to do at an extended range?
It will either evoke an "oh [beeep] they're shooting at me" reaponse, or it won't. If it does, success. If it doesnt, you're dealing with a severe problem and escape is really at the top of the list of things you really want to do.
But we're getting away from sd, mainly because that's not the way sd generally works.
My past career, 50 yards was a real possibility. 200 yards, real possibility. I carried different tools, because I'm not worried about sd, I'm hunting. In that case, I need effective tools at extended ranges.
If I got surprised at 50 yards I have a few options depending on the situation.
1. Middle case scenario, I can take cover and apply pressure while others take a superior position. That either forces bg to stop fighting or my help stops the fight for him.
2. Best case scenario. My car is nearby and I use my pistol to fight my way to the trunk. The car provides me cover, which is good. And ask anyone that worked with me what to do in a firefight, and they should answer "get to my trunk". ALL THINGS GOOD lie in my trunk
that includes ammo for every caliber you might be carrying from 9 to 45 along with .223 and 12ga in 00, slug, beanbag, spare loaded glock mags for ease of use and the thing I really wanting to reach in that scenario, my rifle and my mag pouch with 4 fullY loaded 30 round mags. That gives me 150 rounds of .223 and [beeep] is about to get real. Some officers chose to carry spare blankets, and a whole lot of empty space in the trunk. I chose to get crappy mpg, I didn't have to pay for gas (or the ammo) so I didn't care.
Tldr, your pistol is what you use to fight your way to your long gun.
Or 3. The suckiest option, I close with you and I'm making noise the entire way. But I want to keep pressure on you until I'm scoring hits.
But tangent aside, I'll stick to my recommendations
But if we're going to group every possible scenario where you may have to defend yourself together as self defense, the 50 has to be included.
Here is my rationale.
I limit "true sd" as out to 7 yards for a couple reasons. The first is just simple logic. Nobody is going to step into the alley 50 yards behind you and announce that they are coming to rob/murder/rape you (hopefully in that order). The Bg will always close distance with you. They want to grab you they want to be able to conduct their business at no louder than a normal speaking volume. Typically if things go right for the bg they will close enough to boop your nose before you know they're a threat.
If you can gain 50 yards of space, odds are you're safe. No reason to stop and fight, keep going. Your goal is to escape, not to fight. My job was (thankfully not anymore) to be the guy who went into the alley to fight. You get safe, let me work.
Which brings me back to my sights being pointless remark. You'll be able to press the muzzle into their ribs, if you miss then, no sight is going to help.
2nd, 7 yards puts the bg well into threat range. An average man can cover 7 yards and stab you in the neck in less time than it takes A WELL TRAINED and most importantly PREPARED cop to draw from a level 1 holster and place 1 shot on target. The only thing faster than a lvl 1, is already having the pistol in your hand. Cc holster are slow and clumsy in general.
Also 7 yards is about the limit an average person can point aim and place a round on target. When I was much more practiced I could do it consistently to 25, but I carried an expert rating and put a metric ton of lead downrange every month.
So your target is both within viable threat range, and in viable target range at the same time. At 50 yards, they are a possible threat, and a possible target, assuming both you and they are well practiced with a pistol and capable of putting shots on target at those ranges. If you are not a 50 yard shot with a pistol (few are) *while being shot at yourself and scared out of your mind* (which almost nobody is), it doesn't matter what you're carrying. A starter pistol with blanks will have the exact same effect as a 9mm, a 40, a 45acp etc.
Ask yourself, realistically, *How food am I at 50 yards? How good am I at 50 yards while I'm jumping up and down, ducking, juking, probably peeing myself, crying, while my target is doing the exact same thing?* How much ammo do you carry? My duty carry was 14 in the gun, 2 mags of 13 each. That gave me 38 attempts to make 1 count, and we definitely trained to not spray and pray because 38 goes a whole lot faster than you think when you really don't want to die.
My sd if I'm carrying a pocket, 7. 6 more with a spare mag. Can I honestly afford to waste ANY of those 12 rounds just making noise, which I am statistically likely to do at an extended range?
It will either evoke an "oh [beeep] they're shooting at me" reaponse, or it won't. If it does, success. If it doesnt, you're dealing with a severe problem and escape is really at the top of the list of things you really want to do.
But we're getting away from sd, mainly because that's not the way sd generally works.
My past career, 50 yards was a real possibility. 200 yards, real possibility. I carried different tools, because I'm not worried about sd, I'm hunting. In that case, I need effective tools at extended ranges.
If I got surprised at 50 yards I have a few options depending on the situation.
1. Middle case scenario, I can take cover and apply pressure while others take a superior position. That either forces bg to stop fighting or my help stops the fight for him.
2. Best case scenario. My car is nearby and I use my pistol to fight my way to the trunk. The car provides me cover, which is good. And ask anyone that worked with me what to do in a firefight, and they should answer "get to my trunk". ALL THINGS GOOD lie in my trunk
Tldr, your pistol is what you use to fight your way to your long gun.
Or 3. The suckiest option, I close with you and I'm making noise the entire way. But I want to keep pressure on you until I'm scoring hits.
But tangent aside, I'll stick to my recommendations
NdIndy
New member
In all likelihood, no, I wont. I know the stats, I know the odds. It's a fools fight and relying solely on luck to end it.
I'm going to expand on that, so I'll be editing here.
So there is an infinite number of scenarios and we can what if it until the sun turns into a darkened husk. But I'm trying to think of a few. I can't really think of any where a bg is going to stand far away and shoot at me, I guess maybe if we're in rival gangs. We're in shootout mode more than sd though.
If we look at the alley thing, bg at 1 end, me at the other, 50 yard alley. Best odds for survival, leave the alley. Step to the left and run like [beeep].
Let's say it's a 100yd alley and I'm in the dead center. Best odds, leave the alley. That's because few people are 50 yard shots, so even with me standing still odds are they're just making noise. But luck is what it is and mine sucks as a rule so I'm not standing still. Few people are 50 yard shots, even fewer 60, 70, 80 etc. What I don't want to do is pull a little tombstone courage. The longer I provide a solid sight picture, the more shots I allow at me, the greater the odds luck will screw me. Drawing, firing, all gives extra time for him to hit me.
But we fall back on the ammo count. The more noise he makes with the greater the distance to target, the more movement of the target, the lower the odds of him (her, let's be pc here
) making a hit before he is out of ammo. How many mags did the bg bring with the intent of murdering me?
Third scenario, escape is NOT an option dead end alley. That's trickier. At 50 yards (assuming he's staying static) odds are low he'll hit me. Odds are low I'll hit him. Odds are even lower if I move, lower still if I make him move. But since odds are I won't hit him were right back to caliber not mattering. I'll accomplish the same goal (me not getting shot) with anything he perceives as being a threat. If I get lucky and hit home with a 380 he'll either freak becase he just got shot, or he wont. But it's going to boil down to luck, unless you're really practised as shooting while being shot at. In that case then yes I'd like a heavier caliber in case I get lucky,but hoping for luck in an extremely unlikely scenario isn't good planning.
If we begin extrapolating we end up with an endless array and no real answer, because we can always add another 10 yards. We have to set some limits to contain the thought process. I choose 7 yards
for any range that escape is an option, it's almost always going to be the best option. I no longer paid to deal with that stuff, I don't care about winning a fight. That would be pure pride talking, and pride can get you killed.
And remember, we're originally talking minimum sd caliber. Not ideal, just how low can you go for 1 specific role.
I'm going to expand on that, so I'll be editing here.
So there is an infinite number of scenarios and we can what if it until the sun turns into a darkened husk. But I'm trying to think of a few. I can't really think of any where a bg is going to stand far away and shoot at me, I guess maybe if we're in rival gangs. We're in shootout mode more than sd though.
If we look at the alley thing, bg at 1 end, me at the other, 50 yard alley. Best odds for survival, leave the alley. Step to the left and run like [beeep].
Let's say it's a 100yd alley and I'm in the dead center. Best odds, leave the alley. That's because few people are 50 yard shots, so even with me standing still odds are they're just making noise. But luck is what it is and mine sucks as a rule so I'm not standing still. Few people are 50 yard shots, even fewer 60, 70, 80 etc. What I don't want to do is pull a little tombstone courage. The longer I provide a solid sight picture, the more shots I allow at me, the greater the odds luck will screw me. Drawing, firing, all gives extra time for him to hit me.
But we fall back on the ammo count. The more noise he makes with the greater the distance to target, the more movement of the target, the lower the odds of him (her, let's be pc here
Third scenario, escape is NOT an option dead end alley. That's trickier. At 50 yards (assuming he's staying static) odds are low he'll hit me. Odds are low I'll hit him. Odds are even lower if I move, lower still if I make him move. But since odds are I won't hit him were right back to caliber not mattering. I'll accomplish the same goal (me not getting shot) with anything he perceives as being a threat. If I get lucky and hit home with a 380 he'll either freak becase he just got shot, or he wont. But it's going to boil down to luck, unless you're really practised as shooting while being shot at. In that case then yes I'd like a heavier caliber in case I get lucky,but hoping for luck in an extremely unlikely scenario isn't good planning.
If we begin extrapolating we end up with an endless array and no real answer, because we can always add another 10 yards. We have to set some limits to contain the thought process. I choose 7 yards
And remember, we're originally talking minimum sd caliber. Not ideal, just how low can you go for 1 specific role.
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GC
Well-known member
Originally Posted By: GCQuote:...If your attacker is 50 yards away you're not defending yourself, you're shooting at someone, which is a whole other thing.
I'll respectfully disagree with this statement. If my attacker is 50 yards away and shooting at me, regardless of distance that person is still presenting a deadly threat and any shots I fire in return are in fact in self defense. Is that a likely self defense scenario for a citizen? Most likely not, but stranger things have happened.
I think we are on slightly different pages here. You are talking of tactics, my only point is that if an attacker is 50 yards away I am still in a self defense situation. My point is that range doesn't necessarily determine self defense. If I am being attacked, I am being attacked, be it 5 yards or 50 yards. Being attacked I have need to defend myself. Being attacked at 50 yards in an urban environment would likely be very unusual, as I said above. In a rural area, farm ect. or a remote campsite, hunting or wilderness environment a longer distance encounter could be much more likely. The fight you find yourself in is your fight to deal with. And yes, tactics are critical.
I'll respectfully disagree with this statement. If my attacker is 50 yards away and shooting at me, regardless of distance that person is still presenting a deadly threat and any shots I fire in return are in fact in self defense. Is that a likely self defense scenario for a citizen? Most likely not, but stranger things have happened.
I think we are on slightly different pages here. You are talking of tactics, my only point is that if an attacker is 50 yards away I am still in a self defense situation. My point is that range doesn't necessarily determine self defense. If I am being attacked, I am being attacked, be it 5 yards or 50 yards. Being attacked I have need to defend myself. Being attacked at 50 yards in an urban environment would likely be very unusual, as I said above. In a rural area, farm ect. or a remote campsite, hunting or wilderness environment a longer distance encounter could be much more likely. The fight you find yourself in is your fight to deal with. And yes, tactics are critical.