U.S. Army Getting New Machine Gun Round, Special Ops Getting New Sniper Bullet

hm1996

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U.S. Army Getting New Machine Gun Round, Special Ops Getting New Sniper Bullet
news 2 hours ago

U.S. Army and special forces units are set to introduce two new small arms rounds in the near future meant to improve the effectiveness of troops in the field. Special operations snipers will replace their 7.62 bullets with a new round favored by civilian precision rifle shooters, while the Army’s next-generation squad machine gun will be chambered in a new caliber using new casing technology. The result will be snipers that can engage targets farther and machine guns that are more accurate and lethal than existing weapons.
Higher Velocity Sniper Round

On the sniper rifle front, according to Army Times, U.S. Special Operations Command is switching from the current 7.62x51-millimeter round-also known as .308 Winchester-to the relatively new 6.5-millimeter Creedmoor round. Introduced by ammunition maker Hornady in 2007, the round caught on with commercial precision rifle shooters due to superior long range ballistic performance over the 7.62x51 round.

As this article in NRA Shooting Illustrated demonstrates, the 6.5 Creedmoor travels at a higher velocity than the 7.62. At 1,000 yards, a 6.5 Creedmoor round requires less correction for bullet drop (gravity) and for wind than the 7.62 round. This reduces the margin for error for long range shots, especially when calculating the effects of wind.

Velocity is also important in another sense: bullets slowing from supersonic to subsonic speeds begin to act unpredictably, so it’s important to have a round with as high velocity as possible. At 1,000 yards, the 6.5 round will arrive at its target still traveling at 1,400 feet per second, well above the speed of sound, while the 7.62 round will arrive at 1,150 feet per second, “just past the cusp of the transonic window”.

The new 6.5 Creedmoor round is fairly easy to adopt on existing rifles-typically, 7.62-millimeter rifles just require a barrel swap to take advantage of the new round. The updated sniper rifles should also be externally identical to non-updated rifles, and magazines will hold the same number of rounds.
A Lighter Machine Gun Bullet

Meanwhile, the U.S. Army has decided to go with an entirely new round for its Next Generation Squad Automatic Rifle (NGSAR). Also reported in Army Times, NGSAR will replace the M249 Squad Automatic Weapon in Army service. The M249 shoots 5.56-millimeter ammunition, the same as the M4A1 carbine. The Army is eyeing a 6.8-millimeter round as its replacement. One possibility is combining the 6.8 round with so-called "cased telescope" technology, which Army officials believe would reduce the weight of ammunition by ten percent.

Currently, bullets are half-seated in brass casings. The bullets sit on a small mound of gunpowder which burns when a gun’s firing pin strikes a primer at the base of the casing. Cased telescope rounds, on the other hand, have bullets fully enclosed in a polymer casing, surrounded by gunpowder. The new method reduces the overall weight and size of the round. Much of the work in cased telescope rounds has been done over the years by Textron Systems.

The most likely 6.8-millimeter round under consideration is the 6.8 SPC, or Special Purpose Cartridge. The 6.8 SPC was developed by U.S. Special Forces as an alternative to the existing 5.56 round. It never caught on, but there might be renewed interest in the round among Army leadership now. While some sing the 6.8 round’s praises, others believe it doesn't have any major advantages compared to newer, improved 5.56 rounds.

The NGSAR will eventually be followed up by a carbine for use by individual U.S. Army infantrymen that will use the same new round.

http://start.att.net/news/read/category/...ial_ops-rhearst

Regards,
hm
 
Interesting choices. Now ardent Creedmoor fans can wear camo instead of matching hoodies and tennis shoes.

I wonder how many tomato juice cans died in making these two selections.
 
Its actually a very common sense choice. The 6.5 Creedmoor would make a considerably better machine gun round for all the same reasons.
 
Its actually a very common sense choice. The 6.5 Creedmoor would make a considerably better machine gun round for all the same reasons.
 
Originally Posted By: pyscodogWonder if this will effect availability of ammo and reloading supplies?

I would think the biggest win would be if lake city starts making the brass. It'l probably all be hornady brass in the short term with very little surplus available.
 
Meeting military requirements will definitely require a large capacity facility to produce the required amount of 6.5 CM brass.

And the essentially caseless infantry cartridge has finally made its appearance in the military if what is mentioned here happens. Probably long overdue.
 
This had to be expected it is a much kinder more gentle world.
Remember the good old days when men didn't mind recoil and could pack more weight around.
One might say the pussifacation of america continues.
 
Originally Posted By: IdahoSawtoothThis had to be expected it is a much kinder more gentle world.
Remember the good old days when men didn't mind recoil and could pack more weight around.
One might say the pussifacation of america continues.

Got to love this this guy, thanks.
 
Originally Posted By: hm1996Quote:
U.S. Army Getting New Machine Gun Round, Special Ops Getting New Sniper Bullet
news 2 hours ago

U.S. Army and special forces units are set to introduce two new small arms rounds in the near future meant to improve the effectiveness of troops in the field. Special operations snipers will replace their 7.62 bullets with a new round favored by civilian precision rifle shooters, while the Army’s next-generation squad machine gun will be chambered in a new caliber using new casing technology. The result will be snipers that can engage targets farther and machine guns that are more accurate and lethal than existing weapons.
Higher Velocity Sniper Round

On the sniper rifle front, according to Army Times, U.S. Special Operations Command is switching from the current 7.62x51-millimeter round-also known as .308 Winchester-to the relatively new 6.5-millimeter Creedmoor round. Introduced by ammunition maker Hornady in 2007, the round caught on with commercial precision rifle shooters due to superior long range ballistic performance over the 7.62x51 round.

As this article in NRA Shooting Illustrated demonstrates, the 6.5 Creedmoor travels at a higher velocity than the 7.62. At 1,000 yards, a 6.5 Creedmoor round requires less correction for bullet drop (gravity) and for wind than the 7.62 round. This reduces the margin for error for long range shots, especially when calculating the effects of wind.

Velocity is also important in another sense: bullets slowing from supersonic to subsonic speeds begin to act unpredictably, so it’s important to have a round with as high velocity as possible. At 1,000 yards, the 6.5 round will arrive at its target still traveling at 1,400 feet per second, well above the speed of sound, while the 7.62 round will arrive at 1,150 feet per second, “just past the cusp of the transonic window”.

The new 6.5 Creedmoor round is fairly easy to adopt on existing rifles-typically, 7.62-millimeter rifles just require a barrel swap to take advantage of the new round. The updated sniper rifles should also be externally identical to non-updated rifles, and magazines will hold the same number of rounds.
A Lighter Machine Gun Bullet

Meanwhile, the U.S. Army has decided to go with an entirely new round for its Next Generation Squad Automatic Rifle (NGSAR). Also reported in Army Times, NGSAR will replace the M249 Squad Automatic Weapon in Army service. The M249 shoots 5.56-millimeter ammunition, the same as the M4A1 carbine. The Army is eyeing a 6.8-millimeter round as its replacement. One possibility is combining the 6.8 round with so-called "cased telescope" technology, which Army officials believe would reduce the weight of ammunition by ten percent.

Currently, bullets are half-seated in brass casings. The bullets sit on a small mound of gunpowder which burns when a gun’s firing pin strikes a primer at the base of the casing. Cased telescope rounds, on the other hand, have bullets fully enclosed in a polymer casing, surrounded by gunpowder. The new method reduces the overall weight and size of the round. Much of the work in cased telescope rounds has been done over the years by Textron Systems.

The most likely 6.8-millimeter round under consideration is the 6.8 SPC, or Special Purpose Cartridge. The 6.8 SPC was developed by U.S. Special Forces as an alternative to the existing 5.56 round. It never caught on, but there might be renewed interest in the round among Army leadership now. While some sing the 6.8 round’s praises, others believe it doesn't have any major advantages compared to newer, improved 5.56 rounds.

The NGSAR will eventually be followed up by a carbine for use by individual U.S. Army infantrymen that will use the same new round.

http://start.att.net/news/read/category/...ial_ops-rhearst

Regards,
hm

Don't get me wrong, I like the 6.8 round. But, a machine gun is for covering fire and for making casualties. A rapid fire 5.56 is perfect for effective covering fire. Plus the ability to carry a huge amount of ammo. Even if they make the 6.8 10% lighter, it won't make up for the amount of ammo a gunner could carry.

kwg
 
Originally Posted By: Winny FanInteresting choices. Now ardent Creedmoor fans can wear camo instead of matching hoodies and tennis shoes.

I wonder how many tomato juice cans died in making these two selections.


You have to admit the 6.5 creedmore is superior to the 308 in every aspect. If the 6.8spc is really chosen, the 6.5grendel guys are gonna be up in arms most likely. Not sure what you mean by tomato juice juice cans dying though? I love all calibers, and will be happy to have more surplus brass for us to enjoy.
 
Originally Posted By: Willy BrotzOriginally Posted By: Winny FanInteresting choices. Now ardent Creedmoor fans can wear camo instead of matching hoodies and tennis shoes.

I wonder how many tomato juice cans died in making these two selections.


You have to admit the 6.5 creedmore is superior to the 308 in every aspect. If the 6.8spc is really chosen, the 6.5grendel guys are gonna be up in arms most likely. Not sure what you mean by tomato juice juice cans dying though? I love all calibers, and will be happy to have more surplus brass for us to enjoy.

There's no reason to admit anything since the 6.5 CM is superior to the 308 Win. At least in the rifles I have in each of the chamberings it is, and it is in every combination you could compare the two in, I would imagine.

Do a search here on "tomato juice cans" and you might get an answer to your question.
laugh.gif
 
Originally Posted By: IdahoSawtoothThis had to be expected it is a much kinder more gentle world.
Remember the good old days when men didn't mind recoil and could pack more weight around.
One might say the pussifacation of america continues.

Huh?
 
This started with the infantry rifle used to be 30-06 then 308 now mostly 223. Yes I know that there were some other calibers mixed in there over the years but these were the most common. Now sniper rifle (except special ops not sure about the marines) used to be 30-06 then 308 now maybe the 6.5. Each of the replacements was a little lighter and less recoil easier on the shooter. If you want to shoot further use a bigger bullet that packs more energy at those ranges.
An example is my 300 win mag around the elevation I mostly shoot 5000 feet with a 215 berger hybrid at 2870 fps stays super sonic to around 2000 yards give or take depending on the weather. I don't own a 6.5 but I know it won't even come close to that especially in energy.
Better yet lets move to the 338s or bigger.

As far as the machine gun sounds like a good move more fire power is always better in my opinion.
 
Recently I have been shooting a steel plate match to 1000 yds. In my experience as well as the match results, the 6.5 no matter if its a X47 lapua or Creedmoor or one of the other varieties there are floating around right now has a much higher impact probability than the 30 cal rifles I have seen shooting up there. On a good calm day (We have had none so far this year on match day) the 308 might hold its own but every other day the 6mm and the 6.5's rule for impact probability. They are no match for delivered energy against the 30's or 338's but they are for sure affected by wind drift much less. To make one good shot and hit in a military sniper's everyday role, I would want the power of the 338. It is hard to argue the effectiveness of the 6.5's though. They track great and it is very convenient seeing your own bullet impact. Lapua had to have seen great things coming in order for them to tool up and make 6.5 creedmoor brass. Try one before you squash the idea. They work!!
 
Its hard to find fault with the ballistics of a 6.5MM bullet in just about any cartridge designed to hold one. For just about any purpose.

Of the ones that I have for hunting purposes that include the 260 Rem, the 6.5 CM, the 6.5x55 Swede, and the 264 Win Mag, the 6.5x55 is the overall darling of the bunch and the 264 Win Mag is the heavier bullet workhorse for hunting in North America.

I recognize that for the target people that the long bullets are the rage, but they are not always the best choices for hunting at normal ranges.
 
Originally Posted By: IdahoSawtoothThis started with the infantry rifle used to be 30-06 then 308 now mostly 223. Yes I know that there were some other calibers mixed in there over the years but these were the most common. Now sniper rifle (except special ops not sure about the marines) used to be 30-06 then 308 now maybe the 6.5. Each of the replacements was a little lighter and less recoil easier on the shooter. If you want to shoot further use a bigger bullet that packs more energy at those ranges.
An example is my 300 win mag around the elevation I mostly shoot 5000 feet with a 215 berger hybrid at 2870 fps stays super sonic to around 2000 yards give or take depending on the weather. I don't own a 6.5 but I know it won't even come close to that especially in energy.
Better yet lets move to the 338s or bigger.

As far as the machine gun sounds like a good move more fire power is always better in my opinion.

I think you're forgetting the logistics of one man, or a small team, moving such a big heavy gun and ammo around, vs having one that weighs pounds less with the same accuracy for human, and some equipment targets out to most possible engagement distances. A few pounds really matter when you're doing what some of those folks do in the distances they gotta move on foot and what they gotta carry doing it. They have the heavy sniper guns for those few long, long range and heavy target engagements too. The 6.5 will replace a lot of the 308's role I'd presume, and do better at it.
 
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