Hodgdon H4198 vs. Hodgdon H335

Hcboy

New member
I’m just curious on these two powders. The good and the bad. I’m looking to reload a 6x6.8 using 55-60 grain bullets. Anything you guys have on powders and loads would be appreciated. Thanks
 
I've only used them in 223 but 335 is ball powder and decently temperature sensitive 4198 is a stick powder and not very temp sensitive. 4198 burns a little faster but you can fit a little more 335 into a case so depending on your barrel and load you could have similar pressures or you might not.
 
The top 4 factors that I use to select a powder are:

1. Availability- No point choosing a powder that's in short supply or spotty availability. Look at H4350 over the past 2 years, it's hard to get so lots of shooters have ditched it for something else.

2. Accuracy/Velocity- It has to shoot very well or forget it. Velocity is also part of the equation here, it mustn't be a slouch.

3. Temp Stability- Seems like self torture to knowingly select a powder that is not temp stable. Who needs a powder that fluctuates velocities depending on the weather? External variables already complicate the sport of marksmanship enough, why intentionally add a variable like that when there are alternative powders that are much more stable? Eliminate the variables.

4. Metering- How well it meters through your powder measure might be a factor for bulk loaders or high volume blasting ammo. Some powders flow like water while others crunch with every throw of the lever.

Varmint/target ammo might have a different set of requirements than bulk AR range blasting ammo so what's important to you may change the powder you select for that purpose. I listed these factors in this order because accuracy is generally my top priority.

For me, IMR 8208 XBR has been my top choice for 7 different precision varmint/predator rifles, and it has performed extremely well. Sure is nice keeping it simple with 1 powder for most of my rifles.
 
Originally Posted By: DiRTY DOGThe top 4 factors that I use to select a powder are:

1. Availability- No point choosing a powder that's in short supply or spotty availability. Look at H4350 over the past 2 years, it's hard to get so lots of shooters have ditched it for something else.

2. Accuracy/Velocity- It has to shoot very well or forget it. Velocity is also part of the equation here, it mustn't be a slouch.

3. Temp Stability- Seems like self torture to knowingly select a powder that is not temp stable. Who needs a powder that fluctuates velocities depending on the weather? External variables already complicate the sport of marksmanship enough, why intentionally add a variable like that when there are alternative powders that are much more stable? Eliminate the variables.

4. Metering- How well it meters through your powder measure might be a factor for bulk loaders or high volume blasting ammo. Some powders flow like water while others crunch with every throw of the lever.

Varmint/target ammo might have a different set of requirements than bulk AR range blasting ammo so what's important to you may change the powder you select for that purpose. I listed these factors in this order because accuracy is generally my top priority.

For me, IMR 8208 XBR has been my top choice for 7 different precision varmint/predator rifles, and it has performed extremely well. Sure is nice keeping it simple with 1 powder for most of my rifles.
Wow thanks a lot for all those tips. I definitely need a powder that’s very temp stable considering I live in North Dakota and temperatures can fluctuate severally. All it will be for predator and varmint hunting so accuracy is crucial to me for good shots. I’m new to this reloading world and I don’t know much about the different powders and I very much appreciate your help. Thanks
 
Originally Posted By: Rock KnockerI've only used them in 223 but 335 is ball powder and decently temperature sensitive 4198 is a stick powder and not very temp sensitive. 4198 burns a little faster but you can fit a little more 335 into a case so depending on your barrel and load you could have similar pressures or you might not.
Which powder meters better then, the ball or stick? I live in North Dakota with very fluctuating temperatures, so would either of these be temperature stable enough for that?
 
335 meters great, 4198 not so much, there's worse metering stick powders but no stick powders meter really well.

I weight all my rifle powders so it's not an issue to me. I don't have the exact answer to this but the not so temperature stable 335 vs. it's great metering could be up in there air in regards to overall ammo consistency in different temperatures. 335 will meter consistently but change with temperature, 4198 will be temperature stable but your metering will be all over the place.

If you're dead set on throwing all your rifle charges it's hard to say. If you want great all year rifle ammo chose a stick powder and weight each charge. If you're in the 335 and 4198 range I would also look into H322 or Benchmark, both of them are temp stable stick powders but I am not a 6x6.8 loader so I'm not sure how they do in that case.
 
Ball powder meters great, stick not so well, though there is quite a variance between them due to the size of the kernels of various powders.

Here's how I look at it. For high volume, ie pdog rifles and loads, I use ball powders and make sure the load is safe in the summer as that's the only time I usually shoot them. I would also use them in the winter if need be, as in reality 100 fps loss isn't going to make that much difference at normal ranges. Testing would need to be done, however, to determine any loss of accuracy.

For lower volume stuff that's used for "more important" hunting, the Extreme line from Hodgdon is hard to beat IMO. Powders like Varget, Benchmark, H4350 and most of the Hodgdon stick powders are supposed to be really insensitive.

Like Rock Knocker, I really like IMR 8208. It meters well for a stick powder, and is more insensitive than ball powders. Benchmark would be another that is very similar to 8208, they both work well in the 223 class of cartridges.
 
Looks like RK and I were typing at the same time, and said most of the same things. I also re-read your first post, and for 6-6.8, 8208 and H322 seem like the go-to's. I would strongly consider those. H335 is very close in burn rate also and would work fine other than the sensitivity issue. 4198 is going to be a bit fast burning IMO but would probably be serviceable. GLshooter is the resident guru on this round, he could get you a great head start on some loads.
 
I wonder what brand barrel they will be using? If it's a polygonal twist barrel, mine have always liked faster powders than advertised for land and groove barrels.
 
Originally Posted By: Rock KnockerI wonder what brand barrel they will be using? If it's a polygonal twist barrel, mine have always liked faster powders than advertised for land and groove barrels.

Tactical Ordnance just like the one I've been reporting on here. Ritch is using them exclusively now.

Greg
 
If IMR8208XBR is listed in your load data, I'd start there.
You WILL want to load for other calibers so keep this in mind:
When I first got into rifle reloading I had no idea what powders to buy. But I knew what calibers (5 of them) I wanted to load for. I looked thru several loading manuals that I had, even rifled through a few manuals at the local sporting goods stores and snuck a few pictures.
I determined what weight bullets I wanted to shoot and then made a chart on Excel so that I could see what powders could be used on the multiple rifles. The first powder I bought could be used on 4 of the 5 calibers. Each pay, I bought another pound of powder, based on that same chart. Before too long, I had a decent assortment of powders to experiment with. Just food for thought....
 
I have seen polygonal barrels do some crazy things, some good, some really bad.

Following published data can make things miserable. In my 223s I tried out CFE223 with 53gr Vmax and some extra 55gr SP I had laying around. Both had published data to follow, and I did follow it, the 55gr got me a best of of 4" groups at 100 yards and the 53gr were a whopping 12"+ groups at 100, some weren't even on paper so who knows. CFE223 is a slower powder for those little bit lighter bullets and it was terrible, swiched to Benchmark and they shoot great with a full case. I took my extra CFE223 and tried it with 65gr SGK and it's shooting them into clover leafs at a whopping 3100+fps from 16" barrel at at a hefty load of 27.3gr.

From my experiences the polygonal barrels keep pressures really low and if they are too low they shoot terribly, if you use full cases of faster powders they shoot amazingly.
 
I know H&K has been playing with polygonal twist for a while but they must be the future of rifle barrels. Big increase in velocity, similar accuracy if not better, longer life, foul less and can be cleaned with a kleenex and WD40. Or am I just being a fan boy?
 
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