224 Valkyrie vs .223

P

prairiefire

Member
I am assuming that the Valkyrie would have more "knockdown" effect on small deer, coyotes, etc that the the .223 Is this true? With the speed of the .224, even the larger bullet might just be a pass thru shot with less damage than its cousin. Also, any thoughts on the suitability of the .224 as a self defense weapon.?
 
Bernie, I've been doing some serious research on this round. I have not shot one, but have been watching tons of videos on YouTube about it. If I remember correctly the federal round is a 90 grain hollowpoint with speeds approaching almost 3000 feet per second. In fact in a few of the videos, the shooters were using dope from a 308 round and it was hitting pretty close with the 224. It's an impressive little round and stays supersonic out to around 1300 yards. In my opinion, I think it might be a little much close range for coyotes, but should be fine for and coyotes out over 200 yards. As far as a self-defense weapon, I think it would be comparable to a 223.
 
What is it that draws your attention to the .224 most? What are you most intending to do with the rifle? Cause hunting and home defense would be difficult to fit into one upper receiver to get the most potential. Would be better to have a little longer barrel for hunting and a little shorter barrel for home defense, with different equipment on either that wouldn’t be reasonable for one another. For instance a bipod and high power scope on your defense gun wouldn’t make it very helpful.. Where as a red dot and flashlight on your hunting rifle wouldn’t be ethical, if you catch my drift. Doesn’t have to be the case of course but would be better imho.
 
Here's my thoughts on all of this.

How long will a Valkyrie be relevant? Is is just another WSSM, 30 AR type cambering?

I know the 223 Rem will be around for a good long while...and there are easy options off of the 223 Rem case (223 AI, 6X45, etc)

I don't feel the cartridge is worth the squeeze in the long run. If you do go with it, buy a lifetime supply of components.
 
Comparing the 2 as I see it.
The Valkyrie holds roughly an extra grain of powder over the 223 so it has a clear advantage over a 223 there. Bullets of any weight will leave same length barrels going a little faster in a Valkyrie. The heaviest 22 cal bullets commonly available can be loaded to magazine length and shot from an AR-15 with a Valkyrie, not so with a 223. The good old 223 shines with its inexpensive, available everywhere ammo that isn't very far behind the Valkyrie in performance.
If you could only have one, the choice seems clear to me. Luckily only our budgets dictate what we can have, so why not one of each!
 
A fast twist Valkyrie meant for super heavy bullets probably won't shoot typical 223 weight bullets very well. In other words, don't assume the Valkyrie is simply a faster 223 that will shoot 55gr bullets a little faster. It may not shoot them well at all.
 
Who shoots a 22 cal. 1300 yards???? 22 cal. imo is a varmint round and the 22 Nosler will push 55s 3500. I don't see a need for even an 8 twist in the 22 Nosler. The valkyrie is twisted and chambered for big long high bc bullets so imo its not a varmint / lomg range do all rig. I see it as a another creedmoor type cool name thing.
 
Last edited:
Originally Posted By: varminter .223Who shoots a 22 cal. 1300 yards???? 22 cal. imo is a varmint round and the 22 Nosler will push 55s 3500. I don't see a need for even an 8 twist in the 22 Nosler. The valkyrie is twisted and chambered for big long high bc bullets so imo its not a varmint / lomg range do all rig. I see it as a another creedmoor type cool name thing.

I agree. I shoot a 20" 223 with 77gr TMK out to 1200 yards and the wind makes it quite a chore.
I think they 90gr loads are only 2700 fps out of a 22 or 24"? And it really needs a 6.5 Twist for the 90s to get it out there. 7 twist is marginal at best.

Compare a 77gr 223 to the 90gr .224V and your only looking at about a 4.5 MOA less drop and 3 MOA less drift with 10mph wind at 1000.

Compare the .224 V to a 20" 5.56x42 (Wildcat = 6.8SPC necked down to .224"/trimmed 1mm) with a 75gr Amax/ELD-M @3050fps (my most accurate load with LEVERevolution).
The 5.56x42 has 5Moa less drop and .5moa more drift than the .224 V with 90gr SMKs.

I would wait till everybody else figures the .224V out and makes improvements like the correct twist for the heavies. Or a 12 twist for the light weights.

I just went back to a 20" ARP 223 with Lapua brass and been happy for 600 yard Fclass.
 
Last edited:
I sighted in a new Savage AR in 224 Valkyrie last week for a friend. Shot factory 60 and 90 gr factory loads during sight-in
The 90gr in that gun shot way better than the 60gr. It was a 7 twist and the 60gr had extremely high ES like 150fps which may have been the issue. They were 2.5 inch groups at 100 but the 90 gr hovered around .75 to MOA at 100. It ran the 90gr 2850 from an 18 inch barrel.
Just a guess but might be that around here at low elevations the bullets may be stable while it warm but not when it get really cold?
Talked to Mike Milli /DTech and he said he was seeing stability issues with 90 so he has Shilen making him a large batch of 6.5 twist Rachet barrels. I have a cheap barreled 223 complete Upper I traded for so I am sending it to him for a custom barrel replacement and decided to go Valkyrie.
What I think will happen is with the rage being faster twist barrels for the bigger heavier bullets ALL the bullet makers will be introducing new heavy 22 caliber bullets designed for game up to deer size animals where legal.
The Valkyrie will benefit from that for the reloader first but then ammo will follow.

Bad side for now is all brass is Federal and hard to find. The factory rounds I fired and reloaded already seemed to have loose primer pockets..... typical of Federal brass. Will be shopping for some other source for sure.
I loaded 75 gr Amax in the factory empties so will see how that works.
_________________________
 
Last edited:
Like said before the valk is meant to be creedmoore like out of a ar15 platform. If I were to pick from a factory chamber it would be a 22 Nosler. I run a 6x6.8 with 55s. I like speed and don’t care about bc. Less I have to correct for at medium distances the better. If all I shot was 500+ then I would have a different requirement. I hope the 6.8 case sticks around for my benefit
 
Originally Posted By: 6724The new round is marketing. Like the creedmore.

I would agree. Don't get me wrong, bumping case capacity will make a difference over the .223 but it shouldn't even be in the same discussion as a Creedmore. 200+fps slower and 200+lbs less energy, that's apples to cantaloupes. Just getting it out to 1300 yards isn't justification enough. Yes, the 224 bucks wind and packs a whallhoop. But at the end of the day, it's like comparing Chevy to Ford to Dodge, to red to blue to green. Never ending opinions is all that you end up with.

As far as using it for a "defense" round, sure, it will work. But how you outfit your rifle will determine the feasibility of a "defensive" vs. hunting rig. I used a 16in carbine for many years to drop coyotes. Optics play a big role in what you can/should use your platform for. A 24X scope might be good for coyotes but in a "defensive" role, it isn't going to work.

Bottom line, there really isn't a one size fits all platform/cartridge. There will always be benefits and drawbacks. That's just the nature of the beast. Trying to find a door kicker ready, 1000+ yards shooter that is 4.3lbs, and goes for $1.298 is like finding a unicorn.

I surrender the soap box.
 


I am sitting here reading this and it makes no sense.
This just proves one thing "A fool and his money".
Who wants to shoot 90gr bullets in a .223. Buy a 243win.
243win's just love 90 to 100gr bullets.
I have been shooting a 220swift for a long time, because it works.
Find yourself a copy of "The Red Book" and learn something.
My Dad always said if you are not happy with your pop gun buy a Weatherby.
 
Originally Posted By: 6724The new round is marketing. Like the creedmore.

I would say aren't ALL new rounds introduced "marketing"?

Never have I seen one cartridge (6.5 Creedmoor)be as successful as this. If it's all marketing and hype then why has it created a long term shortage of the main powder used to reload it with?
Hornady originally published on the ammo boxes the powder used in their Match ammo (H4350) and its been in short supply ever since.
If its all hype then why does it continue to be the number one sold rifle cartridge and every manufacturer is now producing rifles in the caliber.
I guess the marketing campaign sure pulled the wool over a lot of people that have now gotten stuck with a Creedmoor.
Glad I didn't buy ONE!
 
Originally Posted By: venaticOriginally Posted By: 6724The new round is marketing. Like the creedmore.

I would say aren't ALL new rounds introduced "marketing"?

Never have I seen one cartridge (6.5 Creedmoor)be as successful as this. If it's all marketing and hype then why has it created a long term shortage of the main powder used to reload it with?
Hornady originally published on the ammo boxes the powder used in their Match ammo (H4350) and its been in short supply ever since.
If its all hype then why does it continue to be the number one sold rifle cartridge and every manufacturer is now producing rifles in the caliber.
I guess the marketing campaign sure pulled the wool over a lot of people that have now gotten stuck with a Creedmoor.
Glad I didn't buy ONE!

Haters gonna hate.

grin.gif
 
Originally Posted By: Stu Farishso how many did you buy?
wink.gif


I haven't read enough to have an opinion yet.



Well it depends.... just 6.5 or the derivatives as well?
lol.gif
 
I don’t have a Valk, probably won’t - but admittedly might because I have a few 6.8 rifles which would be easily converted for low cost, and a bunch of 22cal 90’s from Service Rifle games, which I don’t really shoot any more, so won’t use.

If a guy is looking for a 22cal bolt gun, he can buy a .22Hornet, .223rem, .222rem, 22-250, or 220 swift in a factory made rifle. Wanna reload? .22-6, 22-243, 221FB, .218bee....

If a guy is looking for a 22cal AR-15, all we really have had until the Nosler and the Valk was 223/5.56.
ng brass to feed 6.8’s, Valk seems easy enough.

So what I have never heard is the answer to this:

Discounting speculation of “ammo or brass will dry up someday) and discounting an interest in shooting schitty surplus ammo or components: A new AR buyer is standing in front of a rack at a shop (or on the phone with a builder, or ordering online). What are the reasons he should pick up the 223/5.56 AR instead of the Valkyrie?
 
Back
Top