I'm new to AR's. I have a PSA Wylde upper and I'm loading new Hornady brass with Varget and 65 grain Siera GameKings with standard RCBS dies on a Rock Chucker. It occasionally fails to extract unfired rounds when I'm unloading. Any idea how I can figure out why and what I need to do to fix it? Any information appreciated, thanks.
Failure to extract unfired reloaded ammo?
- Thread starter MAArcher
- Start date
varminter .223
Well-known member
Some of my PSA's needed a heavier extractor spring. The extractor was slipping off of the case rim or head. Is the bolt closing all the way so the extractor is engaging the case head? I can't imagine head space so great that the cartridge is so far forward the extractor doesn't reach it. Do you have any idea how far you are pushing the shoulder back when resizing?
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varminter .223
Well-known member
https://www.midwayusa.com/s?userSearchQuery=ar+extractor+spring&userItemsPerPage=48
I think I put the dpms in mine.
My issues were with non extracting fired case if I recall which is what I thought your post said until I reread it. Take your spring out and if it doesn't have the rubber piece in it I would replace it. I would also measure your resized cases and compare them to a fired case. The measurement you want would be from the case head to the datum line area or shoulder which take a special too that goes on a caliper.
Not my video but it shows you what I am talking about.
The fact that your issues are with unfired ammo leads me to believe the extractor is not sliding over the cartridge rim. The only two ways I can imagine this can happen is if the bolt isn't closing all the way or the headspace is so great the cartridge is too far in front of the bolt for it to reach. When fired the case is forced back to the bolt face and the extractor is engaging the rim. You should only have around .007" or less headspace. A bit more is okay but make sure you don't have an excessive amount.
I think I put the dpms in mine.
My issues were with non extracting fired case if I recall which is what I thought your post said until I reread it. Take your spring out and if it doesn't have the rubber piece in it I would replace it. I would also measure your resized cases and compare them to a fired case. The measurement you want would be from the case head to the datum line area or shoulder which take a special too that goes on a caliper.
Not my video but it shows you what I am talking about.
The fact that your issues are with unfired ammo leads me to believe the extractor is not sliding over the cartridge rim. The only two ways I can imagine this can happen is if the bolt isn't closing all the way or the headspace is so great the cartridge is too far in front of the bolt for it to reach. When fired the case is forced back to the bolt face and the extractor is engaging the rim. You should only have around .007" or less headspace. A bit more is okay but make sure you don't have an excessive amount.
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wormydog1724
Member
Are you bumping the shoulder back .002-.004?
Nonnieselman
New member
Did you full length size the brass?
It's virgin new brass so he shouldn't have to do a lot of massage work I wouldn't think. In an unfired state it should run like greased owl dookie.
I would be looking at replacing the extractor spring with a chrome silicon unit and also make sure I didn't have one of those donut/pillar enhancements under/around the spring. They aren't needed at all in 90% of the applications we are doing IMHO.
Greg
I would be looking at replacing the extractor spring with a chrome silicon unit and also make sure I didn't have one of those donut/pillar enhancements under/around the spring. They aren't needed at all in 90% of the applications we are doing IMHO.
Greg
varminter .223
Well-known member
Ahhhh, I now see he said virgin brass!
Originally Posted By: MAArcherOriginally Posted By: varminter .223Some of my PSA's needed a heavier extractor spring. The extractor was slipping off of the case rim or head. Is the bolt closing all the way so the extractor is engaging the case head?
Could you recommend a spring that worked for you?
Colt M4 extractor spring is the best. It was designed to give reliable extraction in the full auto M4. All my non-Colt extractor springs, including PSA, started failing rather quickly. Since replacing all extractor springs with Colt extractor springs, the reliability of my ARs has improved significantly, even after a lot of rounds.
Could you recommend a spring that worked for you?
Colt M4 extractor spring is the best. It was designed to give reliable extraction in the full auto M4. All my non-Colt extractor springs, including PSA, started failing rather quickly. Since replacing all extractor springs with Colt extractor springs, the reliability of my ARs has improved significantly, even after a lot of rounds.
ThatguySHM
New member
Taper crimp or Lee factory crimp die? To heavy of a taper crimp can bulge the body of the case just before the shoulder angle. Been there, done that.
Originally Posted By: ThatguySHMTaper crimp or Lee factory crimp die? To heavy of a taper crimp can bulge the body of the case just before the shoulder angle. Been there, done that.
Interesting. I did try and set my RCBS seater die to taper crimp a bit. To be honest I'm not certain there's any crimp there or not. I'm new to crimping so i may have fowled things up. I'll have to inspect closer.
Interesting. I did try and set my RCBS seater die to taper crimp a bit. To be honest I'm not certain there's any crimp there or not. I'm new to crimping so i may have fowled things up. I'll have to inspect closer.
Originally Posted By: GLShooterIt's virgin new brass so he shouldn't have to do a lot of massage work I wouldn't think. In an unfired state it should run like greased owl dookie.
I would be looking at replacing the extractor spring with a chrome silicon unit and also make sure I didn't have one of those donut/pillar enhancements under/around the spring. They aren't needed at all in 90% of the applications we are doing IMHO.
Greg
And look at the chamber. It may be a little rough in there and snagging the brass. If it will extract the brass when fired, I would still look at either the shoulder of the brass, even though it's unfired, or the OAL. Look and see if the bullet is engaging the lands on chambering. If the bullet is engaging the lands it can hang on to the round. I have seen guys running reloads in competition, that loaded to the absolute edges of the magazine, have a FTF, try to clear it and then when it would load the next round, we looked and saw the end of the previous bullet in the chamber. Look for groove marks on the bullet.
I would be looking at replacing the extractor spring with a chrome silicon unit and also make sure I didn't have one of those donut/pillar enhancements under/around the spring. They aren't needed at all in 90% of the applications we are doing IMHO.
Greg
And look at the chamber. It may be a little rough in there and snagging the brass. If it will extract the brass when fired, I would still look at either the shoulder of the brass, even though it's unfired, or the OAL. Look and see if the bullet is engaging the lands on chambering. If the bullet is engaging the lands it can hang on to the round. I have seen guys running reloads in competition, that loaded to the absolute edges of the magazine, have a FTF, try to clear it and then when it would load the next round, we looked and saw the end of the previous bullet in the chamber. Look for groove marks on the bullet.
when i got my colt back in 95 I first neck sized, to see if I could get away with it. in shooting, it cycled fine but sometimes when trying to manually eject an unfired round it would not come out. I changed to a FL die and that solved the problem.
may or may not be relevant to this case.
may or may not be relevant to this case.
ThatguySHM
New member
Back your seating die out until it no longer contacts the brass when the ram is all the way up on an empty piece of brass. Seat it to your desired oal and check to see how it extracts.
Do you ever have to push the forward assist to get the round to seat in the chamber properly?
Do you ever have to push the forward assist to get the round to seat in the chamber properly?
Originally Posted By: MAArcherOriginally Posted By: ThatguySHMTaper crimp or Lee factory crimp die? To heavy of a taper crimp can bulge the body of the case just before the shoulder angle. Been there, done that.
Interesting. I did try and set my RCBS seater die to taper crimp a bit. To be honest I'm not certain there's any crimp there or not. I'm new to crimping so i may have fowled things up. I'll have to inspect closer.
skip crimping...its not needed...period. waste of time
Interesting. I did try and set my RCBS seater die to taper crimp a bit. To be honest I'm not certain there's any crimp there or not. I'm new to crimping so i may have fowled things up. I'll have to inspect closer.
skip crimping...its not needed...period. waste of time
Originally Posted By: ThatguySHMBack your seating die out until it no longer contacts the brass when the ram is all the way up on an empty piece of brass. Seat it to your desired oal and check to see how it extracts.
Do you ever have to push the forward assist to get the round to seat in the chamber properly?
Yes, I did a couple times but I can't recall if that was reloads or cheap Fiochi ammo. I only have 20 rounds of reloads through it but I just loaded up 30 more round so if I get to the range this week I'll pay more attention and see if thats a symptom.
Do you ever have to push the forward assist to get the round to seat in the chamber properly?
Yes, I did a couple times but I can't recall if that was reloads or cheap Fiochi ammo. I only have 20 rounds of reloads through it but I just loaded up 30 more round so if I get to the range this week I'll pay more attention and see if thats a symptom.
We had the same problem with 204's before they made small base dies for them. You could get the reloads to load and unload in single shots and bolt guns all dday long, but they either wouldn't chamber in the AR or if they did chamber, you couldn't extract a live one without butt stroking it. Bumping back the shoulders resolved the issue.