varminter .223
Well-known member
55 bt is my 22 cal bullet of choice. Solid base but fast expansion up front.
ballistic tip for coyotes?
- Thread starter ohihunter2014
- Start date
Plant.One
Well-known member
Originally Posted By: willy1947
Bullets for long range shoot. Palma and F class matches use open tipped bullets. Plastic tipped were first used in lever rifles. the plastic tip is just for sales.
OTM bullets arent usually listed as engineered for hunting, however accurate they may be. so in this case, they may well be mostly irrelevant to a hunting conversation.
as i understand it, the jackets and cores are focused on engineering for consistency, not controlled expansion. as such many of them are more likely to exhibit a tendency to splash more often - or on the opposite end not expand at all and just icepick thru - compared to a bullet engineered with a tapered jacket, poly tip for expansion assistance/control, or other such mechanisms that modern hunters are used to.
i will disagree that in all instances the plastic tips are just to sell bullets. i have to think with so many manufacturers producing them they have to have some valid use besides just a feel good feature. if that were the case, why hasnt everyone just gone back to good old HP's and SP's then? one would think that the real world results would shake even the hardest core believers once they failed repeatedly and started costing hunters game.
Bullets for long range shoot. Palma and F class matches use open tipped bullets. Plastic tipped were first used in lever rifles. the plastic tip is just for sales.
OTM bullets arent usually listed as engineered for hunting, however accurate they may be. so in this case, they may well be mostly irrelevant to a hunting conversation.
as i understand it, the jackets and cores are focused on engineering for consistency, not controlled expansion. as such many of them are more likely to exhibit a tendency to splash more often - or on the opposite end not expand at all and just icepick thru - compared to a bullet engineered with a tapered jacket, poly tip for expansion assistance/control, or other such mechanisms that modern hunters are used to.
i will disagree that in all instances the plastic tips are just to sell bullets. i have to think with so many manufacturers producing them they have to have some valid use besides just a feel good feature. if that were the case, why hasnt everyone just gone back to good old HP's and SP's then? one would think that the real world results would shake even the hardest core believers once they failed repeatedly and started costing hunters game.
All "Ballistic Tips" are not created equal.......!
When speaking of coyotes, a V-max and a Sierra B-King are about equal in terminal performance, IMO. They work fine for coyotes if the shooter has some trigger discipline. I've used both a lot and really have no problem with either but I understand their limitations having shot all manner of PD's, Jackrabbits and Coyotes with them.
I suspect many here that love them fall under either the disciplined or extreme novice category.........
Nosler Ballistic Tips, 32gr thru 180gr's are different animals, they are coyote and big game killing SOB's!! The 32gr .204's stop all varmints, including coyotes and 180's are just plain hard to stop....
The tapered jackets and solid bases provide insurance. You can extrapolate calibers and grains from there....................
Still need to steer Noslers properly but they will do the job from almost any angle.....Clip the fringes and they are no different on fur than anything else. Won't comment on Varmageddons, (another "B-tip") as I've not used them on predators........
It's a shame that all plastic tip bullets are referred to as "Ballistic Tips"....
I have absolutely no problem with most soft points either, in fact I really like them! Most perform just like Nosler Ballistic Tips, just cheaper with a lower BC.........
PLOTBOSS
When speaking of coyotes, a V-max and a Sierra B-King are about equal in terminal performance, IMO. They work fine for coyotes if the shooter has some trigger discipline. I've used both a lot and really have no problem with either but I understand their limitations having shot all manner of PD's, Jackrabbits and Coyotes with them.
I suspect many here that love them fall under either the disciplined or extreme novice category.........
Nosler Ballistic Tips, 32gr thru 180gr's are different animals, they are coyote and big game killing SOB's!! The 32gr .204's stop all varmints, including coyotes and 180's are just plain hard to stop....
The tapered jackets and solid bases provide insurance. You can extrapolate calibers and grains from there....................
Still need to steer Noslers properly but they will do the job from almost any angle.....Clip the fringes and they are no different on fur than anything else. Won't comment on Varmageddons, (another "B-tip") as I've not used them on predators........
It's a shame that all plastic tip bullets are referred to as "Ballistic Tips"....
I have absolutely no problem with most soft points either, in fact I really like them! Most perform just like Nosler Ballistic Tips, just cheaper with a lower BC.........
PLOTBOSS
One of my favorite pelt hunting bullets is the 40gr NBT, little hole in and rarely an exit, just a dead coyote usually where he stood. I run them right at 3950-4000fps out of a 22-204. My second favorite is the 52gr Speer HP Flatbase, I shoot it out of my 222 Rem, 5.6x50R Mag and 22-250, it does about the same as the 40gr NBT. I tried the 55gr Sierra softpoints but got huge exits, I quit using them after two in a row and didn't want to waste any more fur.
As others have said the NBT is a stouter bullet than the V-max.
As others have said the NBT is a stouter bullet than the V-max.
ohihunter2014
New member
Well I loaded up some of these Varmageddon BT with Benchmark just waiting on some warmer weather to try them out. Nosler data shows H335 being the best powder for it so ill try that and see what happens. I checked these with a Hornady OAL tool and they seat a lot longer than V max in my short throat rifle. Sure hoping they shoot well cause I have 500 on the way.
Does anyone have any experience with .223 69 grain Sierra Match King on coyotes. I ask because they shoot really well out of one of my ARs and thinking about trying them on coyotes. I apologize if this is considered hijacking a thread but there seem to be some very knowledgeable posters.
yotekiller47
Member
Originally Posted By: ohihunter2014I generally run a 50-55gr V max or now Nosler Varmageddon BT for coyotes and woodchucks but have never shot a coyote with one but this got me thinking.
I attended a seminar for coyote hunting last weekend and the speaker said he shoots only soft point and doesn't like a ballistic tip or hollow point for coyotes and generally shoots them in the head. When asked why he doesn't like BT he said more penetration.
Is this really an issue with Ballistic tips? Have i been using the wrong ammo for coyotes this whole time? Not a pro at anything but when I hear these so called experts say they do nothing but head shots I have to flip the BS card out. I will even go further to say they don't kill very many coyotes. If they killed the coyotes they say there would not be any left. Just my .02.
I attended a seminar for coyote hunting last weekend and the speaker said he shoots only soft point and doesn't like a ballistic tip or hollow point for coyotes and generally shoots them in the head. When asked why he doesn't like BT he said more penetration.
Is this really an issue with Ballistic tips? Have i been using the wrong ammo for coyotes this whole time? Not a pro at anything but when I hear these so called experts say they do nothing but head shots I have to flip the BS card out. I will even go further to say they don't kill very many coyotes. If they killed the coyotes they say there would not be any left. Just my .02.
CallingArkansas
New member
Our coyote season ends the last day of Feb. and that will be the last time I shoot vmax’s in my .223. I will be going back to the 55 gr NBT if my current rifle will shoot them accurately.
When I bought my new CA 15 I tried the 53 gr Hornady V max ammo and they shoot exceptionally accurate and cycle fine. However, I’ve had 3-4 duds and I’ve had what I believe to be splatters on 3 coyotes that were all shot less than 100 yards. Two of those three I thought were DRT. 1st one was about 60 yards and dropped immediately and other than a couple of tail twitches it never moved. I played pup in distress for about 3 mins then walked off to get my truck and drove back to pick up gear and coyote and he had ran off. 2nd one was about 20 yards in the timber! He hit the ground and made a couple spins laying down and then jumped up and ran off. 3rd one was about 50 yards and did just like the 1st one. While I was gathering up my gear he jumped up and ran off. All 3 left lots of blood but also had very quick access to very thick cut overs. Hides are not worth anything in Arkansas so I don’t go crawling through that mess trying to blood trail them. Can’t say for sure what happened but they were all easy broad side shots. I’ve had plenty within 100 yards that are DRT and all my long shots have been DRT. My previous AR in a Bushmaster Predator shot the 55 gr NBT’s well, and the exit holes were about the size of my fist. I hope this gun likes them.
When I bought my new CA 15 I tried the 53 gr Hornady V max ammo and they shoot exceptionally accurate and cycle fine. However, I’ve had 3-4 duds and I’ve had what I believe to be splatters on 3 coyotes that were all shot less than 100 yards. Two of those three I thought were DRT. 1st one was about 60 yards and dropped immediately and other than a couple of tail twitches it never moved. I played pup in distress for about 3 mins then walked off to get my truck and drove back to pick up gear and coyote and he had ran off. 2nd one was about 20 yards in the timber! He hit the ground and made a couple spins laying down and then jumped up and ran off. 3rd one was about 50 yards and did just like the 1st one. While I was gathering up my gear he jumped up and ran off. All 3 left lots of blood but also had very quick access to very thick cut overs. Hides are not worth anything in Arkansas so I don’t go crawling through that mess trying to blood trail them. Can’t say for sure what happened but they were all easy broad side shots. I’ve had plenty within 100 yards that are DRT and all my long shots have been DRT. My previous AR in a Bushmaster Predator shot the 55 gr NBT’s well, and the exit holes were about the size of my fist. I hope this gun likes them.
You have a coyote season? what? why?Originally Posted By: CallingArkansasOur coyote season ends the last day of Feb. and that will be the last time I shoot vmax’s in my .223. I will be going back to the 55 gr NBT if my current rifle will shoot them accurately.
When I bought my new CA 15 I tried the 53 gr Hornady V max ammo and they shoot exceptionally accurate and cycle fine. However, I’ve had 3-4 duds and I’ve had what I believe to be splatters on 3 coyotes that were all shot less than 100 yards. Two of those three I thought were DRT. 1st one was about 60 yards and dropped immediately and other than a couple of tail twitches it never moved. I played pup in distress for about 3 mins then walked off to get my truck and drove back to pick up gear and coyote and he had ran off. 2nd one was about 20 yards in the timber! He hit the ground and made a couple spins laying down and then jumped up and ran off. 3rd one was about 50 yards and did just like the 1st one. While I was gathering up my gear he jumped up and ran off. All 3 left lots of blood but also had very quick access to very thick cut overs. Hides are not worth anything in Arkansas so I don’t go crawling through that mess trying to blood trail them. Can’t say for sure what happened but they were all easy broad side shots. I’ve had plenty within 100 yards that are DRT and all my long shots have been DRT. My previous AR in a Bushmaster Predator shot the 55 gr NBT’s well, and the exit holes were about the size of my fist. I hope this gun likes them.
When I bought my new CA 15 I tried the 53 gr Hornady V max ammo and they shoot exceptionally accurate and cycle fine. However, I’ve had 3-4 duds and I’ve had what I believe to be splatters on 3 coyotes that were all shot less than 100 yards. Two of those three I thought were DRT. 1st one was about 60 yards and dropped immediately and other than a couple of tail twitches it never moved. I played pup in distress for about 3 mins then walked off to get my truck and drove back to pick up gear and coyote and he had ran off. 2nd one was about 20 yards in the timber! He hit the ground and made a couple spins laying down and then jumped up and ran off. 3rd one was about 50 yards and did just like the 1st one. While I was gathering up my gear he jumped up and ran off. All 3 left lots of blood but also had very quick access to very thick cut overs. Hides are not worth anything in Arkansas so I don’t go crawling through that mess trying to blood trail them. Can’t say for sure what happened but they were all easy broad side shots. I’ve had plenty within 100 yards that are DRT and all my long shots have been DRT. My previous AR in a Bushmaster Predator shot the 55 gr NBT’s well, and the exit holes were about the size of my fist. I hope this gun likes them.
I've killed coyotes with ballistic tips,v-max,hollowpoints and softpoints. Body and head shots both. If he shoots them in the head it shouldn't matter. They'll all kill one the same amount of dead if you hit them in the noggin.
Same results if you hit them behind the shoulder with any of those bullets. They don't go far.
Same results if you hit them behind the shoulder with any of those bullets. They don't go far.
Okay, I've been Coyote hunting a long time so here's my .02. I was hunting back in the day with a 30-06 and Accelerators because I couldn't afford a varmint gun. They shot about 2 inch groups so I had to be careful with shot placement and distance but they hit hard and put them right down. I now have a .223 and 220 swift. I use a 55 gr Vmax in both and it performs excellent. I rarely get an exit and they DRT. The key is shot discipline. They are not designed to hit bone and penetrate. With a broadside or frontal shot they are DRT. If you want to just blast at them and hope for the best you will have failures and lost, damaged Coyotes. I wouldn't listen to these so called experts, most don't have a clue.
Rock Knocker
Active member
Up here the cover is thick as well as the coyote hides, we are lucky to get a coyote to stop moving with a bark.
I've killed coyotes with vmaxs for a couple years and I wounded coyotes and damaged pelts for a couple years, vmaxs can kill coyotes but so can 22 rimfires. I switched to soft points and haven't had a coyote go further than 20 yard from where it was shot and no ruined pelts. And we get shots at red and grey foxes up here too, my coyote vmax load destroys a fox, my soft point gives the same entrance and exits on a fox as it does coyotes. Sierra game kings have been superbly consistent for me, weather I hit them in the chest straight on, quartered to me through a shoulder, perfect broadside, fox or coyote .223 entrance and about a half inch to 3/4" exit.
I fully understand and endorse shot placement and discipline but I have a hard time understanding backing up a bullet that you know wont work in certain situations. I know some guys only take head shots or other perfectly placed shots 110% of the time but I need a bullet that works no matter how the stars and sun are aligned or if I hit 3" off of perfect placement.
I've killed coyotes with vmaxs for a couple years and I wounded coyotes and damaged pelts for a couple years, vmaxs can kill coyotes but so can 22 rimfires. I switched to soft points and haven't had a coyote go further than 20 yard from where it was shot and no ruined pelts. And we get shots at red and grey foxes up here too, my coyote vmax load destroys a fox, my soft point gives the same entrance and exits on a fox as it does coyotes. Sierra game kings have been superbly consistent for me, weather I hit them in the chest straight on, quartered to me through a shoulder, perfect broadside, fox or coyote .223 entrance and about a half inch to 3/4" exit.
I fully understand and endorse shot placement and discipline but I have a hard time understanding backing up a bullet that you know wont work in certain situations. I know some guys only take head shots or other perfectly placed shots 110% of the time but I need a bullet that works no matter how the stars and sun are aligned or if I hit 3" off of perfect placement.
The V-max works every time as I know the conditions. It bang flops them on the spot. If you wounded Yotes with the V-max it was your fault not the bullets. Did I mention I shoot Fox with it, no. Don't read more into my post. They will tear a Fox up. Have fun shooting what you choose.
Rock Knocker
Active member
Agreed. The second and third terrible splash on a quartered coyote shoulder was my fault, the first time I expected the bullet to work, once I saw it didn't I should have given up on them then.
If you read more into my post you would see that I never said you shot at fox, I said I did, and they are terrible for fox.
Im just trying to make a point that the vmax aren't designed for coyote type targets. They can work in perfect condition, I enjoy no exit damage but frankly the vmaxs have destroyed more fur than it has saved for me. There are much better hunters out there than me, I'm not perfect and unless everything is perfect you wreck fur or have an inhumane kill.
They're a varmint bullet, pretty much says it right in their name, they're good at exploding gophers and the likes. I have no problem with people shooting vmaxs, I just try to steer coyote hunters away from them because I wish someone would have steered me away from them when I was asking about it.
If you read more into my post you would see that I never said you shot at fox, I said I did, and they are terrible for fox.
Im just trying to make a point that the vmax aren't designed for coyote type targets. They can work in perfect condition, I enjoy no exit damage but frankly the vmaxs have destroyed more fur than it has saved for me. There are much better hunters out there than me, I'm not perfect and unless everything is perfect you wreck fur or have an inhumane kill.
They're a varmint bullet, pretty much says it right in their name, they're good at exploding gophers and the likes. I have no problem with people shooting vmaxs, I just try to steer coyote hunters away from them because I wish someone would have steered me away from them when I was asking about it.
CallingArkansas
New member
Yes we have a coyote season.
July 1st - Feb. 28th
Why? I have no idea.
July 1st - Feb. 28th
Why? I have no idea.
CallingArkansas
New member
Originally Posted By: SwiftKillThe V-max works every time as I know the conditions. It bang flops them on the spot. If you wounded Yotes with the V-max it was your fault not the bullets. Did I mention I shoot Fox with it, no. Don't read more into my post. They will tear a Fox up. Have fun shooting what you choose. Originally Posted By: SwiftKillThe V-max works every time as I know the conditions. It bang flops them on the spot. If you wounded Yotes with the V-max it was your fault not the bullets. Did I mention I shoot Fox with it, no. Don't read more into my post. They will tear a Fox up. Have fun shooting what you choose. Originally Posted By: SwiftKillThe V-max works every time as I know the conditions. It bang flops them on the spot. If you wounded Yotes with the V-max it was your fault not the bullets. Did I mention I shoot Fox with it, no. Don't read more into my post. They will tear a Fox up. Have fun shooting what you choose.
Well I’m not a “so called expert” by any means nor am I a novice. But one thing I do know is that Hornady Superperformance 53 grain V-max ammunition DO NOT WORK EVERYTIME! I’ve had at least 3 duds since December 28th, 2017. Two of those were shot out of my T/ C Venture, one from the bench and one at a coyote. The 3rd was the 1st time I pulled the trigger on the bobcat that’s in my profile pic to the left of this post shot from my AR. The 2nd bullet went in her throat right where it’s touching the handle on my Foxpro. That bullet worked great at just over 200 yards, POI was where I aimed and there was no exit hole. That cat probably weighed no more than 18 lbs, she was sitting down looking straight at me wondering what the noise was from me racking the second shell due to the 1st dud. The bullet stopped about 3/4 way through her neck. That’s about 3-31/2”s of penetration. There is nothing in a bobcat’s neck hard enough to compares to a coyote’s rib or shoulder blade. Like Rock Knocker said “they’re varmint bullets”. I’ve killed coyotes with them all this season, some exit and some don’t. Most are DRT, but as I stated in my earlier post I had 3 this year that I firmly believe splattered on impact. I do know it wasn’t due to me just “blasting” at them. Coyotes don’t flop on the spot and lay there before jumping up and running off due to bad shot placement, but they very well might when a bullet exhaust all of it’s energy within the first few inches of impact due to hitting a bone. That’s my non expert opinion.
Well I’m not a “so called expert” by any means nor am I a novice. But one thing I do know is that Hornady Superperformance 53 grain V-max ammunition DO NOT WORK EVERYTIME! I’ve had at least 3 duds since December 28th, 2017. Two of those were shot out of my T/ C Venture, one from the bench and one at a coyote. The 3rd was the 1st time I pulled the trigger on the bobcat that’s in my profile pic to the left of this post shot from my AR. The 2nd bullet went in her throat right where it’s touching the handle on my Foxpro. That bullet worked great at just over 200 yards, POI was where I aimed and there was no exit hole. That cat probably weighed no more than 18 lbs, she was sitting down looking straight at me wondering what the noise was from me racking the second shell due to the 1st dud. The bullet stopped about 3/4 way through her neck. That’s about 3-31/2”s of penetration. There is nothing in a bobcat’s neck hard enough to compares to a coyote’s rib or shoulder blade. Like Rock Knocker said “they’re varmint bullets”. I’ve killed coyotes with them all this season, some exit and some don’t. Most are DRT, but as I stated in my earlier post I had 3 this year that I firmly believe splattered on impact. I do know it wasn’t due to me just “blasting” at them. Coyotes don’t flop on the spot and lay there before jumping up and running off due to bad shot placement, but they very well might when a bullet exhaust all of it’s energy within the first few inches of impact due to hitting a bone. That’s my non expert opinion.
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Originally Posted By: ohihunter2014I generally run a 50-55gr V max or now Nosler Varmageddon BT for coyotes and woodchucks but have never shot a coyote with one but this got me thinking.
I attended a seminar for coyote hunting last weekend and the speaker said he shoots only soft point and doesn't like a ballistic tip or hollow point for coyotes and generally shoots them in the head. When asked why he doesn't like BT he said more penetration.
Is this really an issue with Ballistic tips? Have i been using the wrong ammo for coyotes this whole time?
I would say that this guy likes to hear himself talk.
55g Noslers penetrate.
Sierra 52,53 Hp and their 55g bthp are good penetrators with 22/250 & Ai velocities....52 speers...not so much. He should have qualified his answers.
I attended a seminar for coyote hunting last weekend and the speaker said he shoots only soft point and doesn't like a ballistic tip or hollow point for coyotes and generally shoots them in the head. When asked why he doesn't like BT he said more penetration.
Is this really an issue with Ballistic tips? Have i been using the wrong ammo for coyotes this whole time?
I would say that this guy likes to hear himself talk.
55g Noslers penetrate.
Sierra 52,53 Hp and their 55g bthp are good penetrators with 22/250 & Ai velocities....52 speers...not so much. He should have qualified his answers.
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55g Nosler ballistic tips do not splash, from 223 to 22/250 AI velocities, the rest suck hind tit on quartering shots involved with big bones.
55g Sierra of all types with the exception of the blitz kings all perform very well.
55g Hornady SP are splendid!
Frontal quartering shots where you have to shoot through a front shoulder and get to vitals are an important consideration.
Also, running away shots were you have to shoot through a rear hip, or slid the bullet in behind a rear rib have proven to be flippers and floppers on explosive bullets.
Never depend on having the perfect text book shot of a broadside lung shot, if you get a shot on a coyote, you had better take it!
If you like using a super explosive bullet, you can count on loosing one every now and again. Trouble is, you may not ever know you ever hit him! I have seen many surface explosions with various bullets and calibers over the years, some never even act like they have been hit, they never miss a gear!
A 40g bullet will not even blow up a p. dog at 275 yards with a MV of 3800, they shed their energy real fast.
Coyotes are on the move many times when responding to a caller, so you hit them further back in the stomach. Use enough bullet to penetrate with an explosive Temporary wound channel.
Question:
Why in the world would I ever want to shoot a bullet that blows up on a shoulder blade, hip, heavy upper rib? A better question would be, why in the world would I want to shoot a bullet to where I had to aim off the shoulder or not shoot at all on a running away shot? When a coyote is running, trotting, fast walking you are lucky to hit them at all. Yes, I have barked, yelled, made all kinds of cooter calls like the best of them to get them to stop.
Learn to leade them, don't stop your swing, use a good hunting bullet so that if your leade is off and you hit them in the nose it will break their necks!
55g Sierra of all types with the exception of the blitz kings all perform very well.
55g Hornady SP are splendid!
Frontal quartering shots where you have to shoot through a front shoulder and get to vitals are an important consideration.
Also, running away shots were you have to shoot through a rear hip, or slid the bullet in behind a rear rib have proven to be flippers and floppers on explosive bullets.
Never depend on having the perfect text book shot of a broadside lung shot, if you get a shot on a coyote, you had better take it!
If you like using a super explosive bullet, you can count on loosing one every now and again. Trouble is, you may not ever know you ever hit him! I have seen many surface explosions with various bullets and calibers over the years, some never even act like they have been hit, they never miss a gear!
A 40g bullet will not even blow up a p. dog at 275 yards with a MV of 3800, they shed their energy real fast.
Coyotes are on the move many times when responding to a caller, so you hit them further back in the stomach. Use enough bullet to penetrate with an explosive Temporary wound channel.
Question:
Why in the world would I ever want to shoot a bullet that blows up on a shoulder blade, hip, heavy upper rib? A better question would be, why in the world would I want to shoot a bullet to where I had to aim off the shoulder or not shoot at all on a running away shot? When a coyote is running, trotting, fast walking you are lucky to hit them at all. Yes, I have barked, yelled, made all kinds of cooter calls like the best of them to get them to stop.
Learn to leade them, don't stop your swing, use a good hunting bullet so that if your leade is off and you hit them in the nose it will break their necks!
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Wow, you guys really go overboard. I've never lost a Coyote to a V-max and it's probably safe to say I've shot more than most. You probably missed where I said its not designed to hit bone. I take frontal and broadside shots, avoiding the shoulder and they bang flop. Rarely an exit and if they do its usually a small piece of the jacket. It jello's the chest cavity. I don't shoot at running Coyotes. Most people don't have the skill to hit them accurately anyway they just blast away. I shoot them for the fur. If you want to shoot something else that works for you that's fine but don't say V-max's don't work. Plenty of people use them with great results.