Talked to Pulsar regarding my Trail xp 50 poi shift

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varminter .223

Well-known member
After some testing this weekend I am seeing a 2.5" horizontal and 3.5" vertical shift from out of the house temp to 35 minutes in the freezer so I called Pulsar today and I feel got a pretty much no bs straight up answer. The guy said no one at Pulsar is denying that there is a temp related issue but there is no fix yet period. He said they feel it is a thermal expansion and contraction problem and not a core issue since the apex model is not having any poi shift. He said they are currently working on a firmware update to fix it and probably not gonna do you any good to ship the scope in at this time. I called him out on the fact that he first said it was going to be corrected with a firmware up date but later said it was related to the screen or something physically moving in the unit causing the shift. His answer was about algorithms etc and the scope reticle self adjusting for temp changes which is a bit out of my league so I guess we will see. If new firmware comes out I guess it will be sent out and we will have it. I just created two zeroes, one for 25 ish degrees and one for 45 ish degrees to get me by until March 15.
 
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With a thermal scope, in contrast to a Day optic scope, the reticule is not what you are moving with the adjustments, you are repositioning the entire viewing screen underneath the projected image of the reticule, the reticule itself is stationary.

So, indeed it is a particular microbolometer core issue specific to this core design.
 
Sounds like you got a little more info than I got... did you talk to someone at Sellmark or Pulsar?

If it's something flexing, which means physical movement, I don't see how firmware will fix that, but then again I don't know diddly about thermal scopes.

If this ends up being the case, and I still have the issue upon return or repair, I'm just going to flat out insist on getting a complete refund and pony up for a Trijicon.
 
Originally Posted By: varminter .223I talked to someone at Sellmark in Tx. not Pulsar.

Robby? If so, he's a nice guy. I sense this issue is stressing him as well as the XP50 owners.

Lets face it... if the problem has no real fix, where does that leave us?
 
Yes whoever it is that I talk to sounded pretty frustrate. He said as soon as they fix it he's going to buy a trail himself though. He thought they'd get it fixed but there is no fix yet. Pretty much makes the trail obsolete if they can't get that fixed but if they can make it work in the Apex you would think there has to be some fix.
 
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Is this something that all of the Trail models are having issues with? I just purchased a Xq50 that I have not mounted yet so I don't have much input but curious if they all do it or just a few unlucky owners?
 
Originally Posted By: varminter .223After some testing this weekend I am seeing a 2.5" horizontal and 3.5" vertical shift from out of the house temp to 35 minutes in the freezer so I called Pulsar today and I feel got a pretty much no bs straight up answer. The guy said no one at Pulsar is denying that there is a temp related issue but there is no fix yet period. He said they feel it is a thermal expansion and contraction problem and not a core issue since the apex model is not having any poi shift. He said they are currently working on a firmware update to fix it and probably not gonna do you any good to ship the scope in at this time. I called him out on the fact that he first said it was going to be corrected with a firmware up date but later said it was related to the screen or something physically moving in the unit causing the shift. His answer was about algorithms etc and the scope reticle self adjusting for temp changes which is a bit out of my league so I guess we will see. If new firmware comes out I guess it will be sent out and we will have it. I just created two zeroes, one for 25 ish degrees and one for 45 ish degrees to get me by until March 15.


sounds like he is using my theory on a faulty temperature correction algorithm.

but in all seriousness by scraping the excess injection molding off of the battery so it has a loose fit made mine able to hit stuff now
 
Here is what I don't get. Why isn't it happening to everyone? I have been watching 2 very popular Pulsar Thermal and NV Facebook sites and there are some having issues. I am one of them. However, I have talked to two reputable Pulsar dealers that I trust and between the two, they have had 1 or 2 of the tons of Pulsars they have sold with the issue. For everyone that says they have a problem there are many times the people saying they don't have the issue. I realize it may not be cold enough in some areas to affect POI, or people haven't used their scopes enough, etc. Still, if it is a design flaw, why isn't it affecting all the Trails. I personally don't think firmware is going to be the answer. I talked to Sellmark NA recently as well and the gentleman who I spoke to who supposedly was the point person for this issue in NA said they had turned their findings over to corporate and were waiting for the official response. When I pushed him on if my sending the scope back would result in a scope that would hold POI, his comment to me was, "Corporate is aware of the issue, so he would think any new inventory would not have this issue." As soon as our night season ends, mine is going back but I need to limp through the rest of the season which is only a few more weeks.
 
Kirsch, I've wondered that too. But, I also wonder how many people are truly checking zero to this extent. I know many people that I hunt with that if their POI shifted 2 or 3 inches, they wouldn't even blink an eye at that. I'm sure that is the case with quite a few people here as well. And when hunting things like hogs, people might be having this issue, but still killing hogs, so therefore they think their thermal is still on.

I also know quite a few people who can't group within 4 inches to save their life, so for those in this scenario, they would have no idea of POI shift.
 
Originally Posted By: BocephussKirsch, I've wondered that too. But, I also wonder how many people are truly checking zero to this extent. I know many people that I hunt with that if their POI shifted 2 or 3 inches, they wouldn't even blink an eye at that. I'm sure that is the case with quite a few people here as well. And when hunting things like hogs, people might be having this issue, but still killing hogs, so therefore they think their thermal is still on.

I also know quite a few people who can't group within 4 inches to save their life, so for those in this scenario, they would have no idea of POI shift.
Have some of the same thoughts, but since this news has come out I would surely check if I had spent 2-6K on a scope. Mine settles down if I keep it at a fairly constant temp. As long as it doesn't go from hot to cold, etc it seems fine. The other thing I have mentioned in other posts is it seems like the majority of issues are with the 50 series, a few having issues with the 38 and I haven't heard of an issue with the 30. My question to that trend is this due to the number of 50's sold compared to 38s, compared to 30's, or is this pointing to the underlying issue with the scopes? Who knows, I just sure hope it is fixed soon.
 
Thanks for the update. Our season in MI for coyotes never closes so I'm going to ride my XP50 out until they at least issue the supposed firmware fix before I send it back to see if that solves the issue.
 
Originally Posted By: BocephussKirsch, I've wondered that too. But, I also wonder how many people are truly checking zero to this extent. I know many people that I hunt with that if their POI shifted 2 or 3 inches, they wouldn't even blink an eye at that. I'm sure that is the case with quite a few people here as well. And when hunting things like hogs, people might be having this issue, but still killing hogs, so therefore they think their thermal is still on.

I also know quite a few people who can't group within 4 inches to save their life, so for those in this scenario, they would have no idea of POI shift.

Good point... I'm not one of them. The zeros shouldn't be changing more than .5" or maybe 1" period... hot, cold, should not matter. You're probably right about people killing and not realizing they are off a few inches.

If my error was limited to 2" max, and I could count on it being consistent, that would be one thing... but my issue is manifesting problems worse than that, and for that, I'm not pleased with my purchase.

I'm just glad Selmark/Pulsar is not playing games or acting dumb on the matter... thanks to them for addressing the issue and showing concern.
 
I agree with you 100% bowhntr. I just have a gut feeling the scope of this issue is much larger than many of the purchasers of these thermals know.
 
Originally Posted By: pmackBowhntr6pt being in Florida what kind of temperature swings are you experiencing?

Both times I had the problem there was no temp change between the shooting sessions. One time a change was observed in low 60 degree weather and the other and more pronounced problems occurred during a low 80 degree day.

In other words, my problems were not observed from shooting in 60's vs. going to 80's and then shooting... rather it did it at both temp. levels.
 
Originally Posted By: Bowhntr6ptOriginally Posted By: pmackBowhntr6pt being in Florida what kind of temperature swings are you experiencing?

Both times I had the problem there was no temp change between the shooting sessions. One time a change was observed in low 60 degree weather and the other and more pronounced problems occurred during a low 80 degree day.

In other words, my problems were not observed from shooting in 60's vs. going to 80's and then shooting... rather it did it at both temp. levels.


Coming from NY I wouldn't think a temp swing on 20 degrees would make an impact. Especially that range 60-80, seems pretty normal and wouldn't promote much expansion and contracting.

Originally Posted By: varminter .223After some testing this weekend I am seeing a 2.5" horizontal and 3.5" vertical shift from out of the house temp to 35 minutes in the freezer so I called Pulsar today and I feel got a pretty much no bs straight up answer. The guy said no one at Pulsar is denying that there is a temp related issue but there is no fix yet period. He said they feel it is a thermal expansion and contraction problem and not a core issue since the apex model is not having any poi shift.


I could understand this type of temperature swing having an effect on expansion and contraction. Makes me wonder if Pulsar has no idea what is going on.

When I come in from cold nights of 20 degrees or less I leave my guns and caller in the garage (heated 45 degrees) and then transfer to the house next day. Might do nothing but my mind says it lessens condensation on my optics and electronics and fire arms. For this reason alone the POI changes attributed to temperature only make sense IMO in the colder climates. I don't have thermal now but I'm itching to get one and hope this gets sorted out soon. Good luck to you guys.
 
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Not every issue with Pulsar Trail scopes has to be an issue with Temp and POI, either. There have been reports of people having issues with the standard mount that comes with Pulsars whether a mount issue or installation issue. Weird stuff just happens to electronics once in awhile as well. There are lemons in every brand, even Trijicon. However, the Trail temp POI situation seems to have gone past the few lemons to something a bit more problematic.
 
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