Going thermal

J

jwalters911

New member
So I've been around the block regarding coyote hunting hence why I've progressed from kill lights to night vision to now upgrading to thermal. Regarding converting to thermal I want feedback on what's the opinions of best and/or most economic yet effective thermal clip on or scope available from last 4 years. Prefer to not get any older than that regarding models. Not unless it's just to good to ignore. I've got a list that I'm Currentky evaluating and looking for advice on. Along with advice on other models etc. Current list is
Trijicon®
IR HUNTER™ MARK III 640X480 THERMAL WEAPON SIGHT

FLIR®
THERMOSIGHT PRO PTS233

Trijicon®
SNIPE-IR™ THERMAL CLIP-ON

THERMAL CLIP-ON ARMASIGHT by FLIR Apollo Pro LR 640 100mm (60 Hz)

Also add the pulsar helion to that list

Thanks for feedback
 
The Apollo is a very functional unit

The snipe is a little better

The mk3 is badass, but not worth a [beeep] as a clip on . I don’t think trijicon advertising them as clipon any more . I may be wrong ......

The flir you mentioned is nowhere close to same ballpark as others. Have no idea if it could be used as clip on, but if you can afford trijicon, do it. You won’t be disappointed
 
The PIP function in the Pulsar units really sold me, plus Pulsar has the best bang for the buck when it comes to a 640 resolution. If I could afford trijicon I would definitely have gone that route!
 
I agree. If I could not afford the Trij, Pulsar would be my next choice. They have not merged recently, and tend to have better customer service than most.
 
Pulsar is great for the money. I’ve got a couple that I use as loaners. If I were to start all over, that’s what I’d do . Didn’t mention them only because he didn’t ask. There’s a reason they’re in short supply right now
 
Xp50
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My take: (1) Go with a dedicated scope and avoid the clip-on issues. (2) Most of us will probably recommend what we're using. Example-Varminter .223 has recommended the XP50 which he has and loves. It is the top of the line in Pulsar. Excellent CS, great scope with a few minor hiccups in roll out, and hard to get. Soon to be eclipsed by the XP50 with LRF. (3)Old cat will probably recommend the 640 core Armasight. He loves it and apparently an excellent scope. Rumors are that FLIR is dropping the Armasight name. (4) SkyPup will recommend something by FLIR. He loves them. (5) Skinney and a host of others will recommend the Trij. Great through the scope view.

Looks like you're located in Ala./NW Fla. so your needs wouldn't necessarily be the same as the Dakota guys or those from other wide open western lands. Basic question is what do you want the scope to do? Shoot coyotes only? Shoot and record? Run scope off an onboard rechargeable battery pack? Small compact form? PIP (picture in picture)? All these go into the selection along with reputation for customer service.

As to myself, I'm using an 18 month old Pulsar Apex50A. It is 384 core and 25 micron pitch. Same new model in the Apex XQ50 with 384 core and 17 micron pitch with slightly more native mag.is several hundred dollars cheaper today. The Trail model XQ50 (same core and pitch as the new Apex) is about $1,000 more with several nice additional features (onboard recording, rechargeable battery, streamable, etc.)

I don't feel handicapped in the least because I can see and kill coyotes as far as I want to shoot at night. For another $100 I was able to add a mini dvr to record, and less than another hundred and I was able to add a battery pack that runs the scope for as long as I want to hunt at night with no problems. I also use a thermal monocular the Pulsar HD19A helmet mounted for scanning.

I reckon my bottom line is that all of us are probably prejudiced to what we have and know how to use. I do know this for just over $5,000 you can put together a Helion scanner and Apex XQ50 and have a heck of an outfit to kill coyotes. For about $6,000 you can do it with the Trail and Helion Scanner, and for just over $7,000 you can do Helion scanner and Trail XP50 640 core. All of them will kill coyotes very well.

 
If you can go the Trijicon® IR HUNTER™ MARK III 640X480 THERMAL WEAPON SIGHT, get this and NEVER look back. The image is REALLY that good. I'd shy away from the thermal clip-on sights except for the L3 LWTS and the FLIR T70 and T75's. I have not been the happiest with boresight alignment with the rest.

Just my humble opinion. PM if you like, be happy to assist where I can.
 
Buy as much as you can justify. The stuff is cool and I don't think anyone has been disappointed with what they ended up with other than maybe some guys wishing they had bought more. I would love to try the Trijicon stuff but dang twice the money and few bells and whistles.
 
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I will share my evolution in thermal with you. Started out 2-3 years ago with a Zeus 336, then went to a thor 640, then this summer took the plunge and went to a Trijicon MK2. Those are just the three I've personally owned, but I have also hunted behind a Zeus Pro 100mm, Zeus 640, and thor 384 (or something like that, the old FLIR core ones).

My opinion (and this is the Ford vs Chevy debate), is if you can afford the Trijicon, do it, and don't look back like mentioned above. I think its fair to argue, that Pulsar seems to hold its own when you are strictly talking value to dollar ratio. And I think people are loving them. But what turned me to the Trijicon over the Pulsar was when I really looked at the guys who were putting the hammer down on hogs and yotes, who the sponsored hunters were, what pro staffers used, it seemed all their pics had some sort of Trijicon thermal on top of their rifles. To me, that said something.

I'm not a bells and whistle guy. I had a scope that had all that, and it never go used. So my focus was absolute best clarity in my price range, and from my research, that was a MK2 from Trijicon. And I can tell you its amazing.

I'm also not a clip on guy. It just seems to make everything that much more bulky, and a rifle very front heavy. And also like mentioned above, unless you go with an L3 or something to that nature, I think people have been pretty unhappy with Trijicon's as clip ons.
 
How many more years do you all think it will take for the price of the Trijicon mark III or II to come down a few thousand dollars. that a lot of cash for me to put out to try to kill a few yotes. but man I do want one.
 
My uneducated opinion is that I doubt they will, or it will be quite a while. I believe the market they are targeting is still buying them.

I'm sure a vendor could speak to that though as if they are seeing a decline in Trijicon sales through them.

And correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe they went the over way last year with Trijicon took over IRD, and went with a price increase.
 
Another thing about thermal is given the atmospheric conditions some nights it is amazingly clear and some nights it pizz poor. Take that into account when looking at videos.
 
Originally Posted By: DoubleUpMy take: (1) Go with a dedicated scope and avoid the clip-on issues. (2) Most of us will probably recommend what we're using. Example-Varminter .223 has recommended the XP50 which he has and loves. It is the top of the line in Pulsar. Excellent CS, great scope with a few minor hiccups in roll out, and hard to get. Soon to be eclipsed by the XP50 with LRF. (3)Old cat will probably recommend the 640 core Armasight. He loves it and apparently an excellent scope. Rumors are that FLIR is dropping the Armasight name. (4) SkyPup will recommend something by FLIR. He loves them. (5) Skinney and a host of others will recommend the Trij. Great through the scope view.

Looks like you're located in Ala./NW Fla. so your needs wouldn't necessarily be the same as the Dakota guys or those from other wide open western lands. Basic question is what do you want the scope to do? Shoot coyotes only? Shoot and record? Run scope off an onboard rechargeable battery pack? Small compact form? PIP (picture in picture)? All these go into the selection along with reputation for customer service.

As to myself, I'm using an 18 month old Pulsar Apex50A. It is 384 core and 25 micron pitch. Same new model in the Apex XQ50 with 384 core and 17 micron pitch with slightly more native mag.is several hundred dollars cheaper today. The Trail model XQ50 (same core and pitch as the new Apex) is about $1,000 more with several nice additional features (onboard recording, rechargeable battery, streamable, etc.)

I don't feel handicapped in the least because I can see and kill coyotes as far as I want to shoot at night. For another $100 I was able to add a mini dvr to record, and less than another hundred and I was able to add a battery pack that runs the scope for as long as I want to hunt at night with no problems. I also use a thermal monocular the Pulsar HD19A helmet mounted for scanning.

I reckon my bottom line is that all of us are probably prejudiced to what we have and know how to use. I do know this for just over $5,000 you can put together a Helion scanner and Apex XQ50 and have a heck of an outfit to kill coyotes. For about $6,000 you can do it with the Trail and Helion Scanner, and for just over $7,000 you can do Helion scanner and Trail XP50 640 core. All of them will kill coyotes very well.



^^^^This! Pay special attention to the second paragraph.
 
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So is the performance the same in image quality comparing the pulsar apex xq50 an the trail xq50. Only difference I see is the trail having streaming, battery updatable firmware.
 
I have the Apex Xq50 and love it. You can add a 20 hour video and external dvr for video to the Apex and be in for fraction of the cost. The image is quality is very good and can see for 1000s of yards. Its super easy to use and sight in also come with quick detatch mount now.
 
Originally Posted By: varminter .223Buy as much as you can justify. The stuff is cool and I don't think anyone has been disappointed with what they ended up with other than maybe some guys wishing they had bought more. I would love to try the Trijicon stuff but dang twice the money and few bells and whistles. I agree with this and honestly the only thing Trijicon has going for it is a great view. Although the view is not as good as the Trijicon, the Pulsar is huge in the features Department. I absolutely love the rechargeable clip-on battery that the new units are coming with. And enough cannot be said about the picture-in-picture feature, this has been huge for me.
If Pulsar had the same view as the Trijicon you would never hear anyone purchasing a Trijicon.
 
Originally Posted By: Catdog1Originally Posted By: varminter .223Buy as much as you can justify. The stuff is cool and I don't think anyone has been disappointed with what they ended up with other than maybe some guys wishing they had bought more. I would love to try the Trijicon stuff but dang twice the money and few bells and whistles. I agree with this and honestly the only thing Trijicon has going for it is a great view. Although the view is not as good as the Trijicon, the Pulsar is huge in the features Department. I absolutely love the rechargeable clip-on battery that the new units are coming with. And enough cannot be said about the picture-in-picture feature, this has been huge for me.
If Pulsar had the same view as the Trijicon you would never hear anyone purchasing a Trijicon.

Ha, the "only" thing you mention it has going for it, should be what people place 90% of their decision on. Positively ID'ing at night with thermal is one the most debated and subjective topics in the thermal world. Lets not forget to add the Trijicon is tried and true technology that isn't currently experiencing "POI" shift because of cold weather. You want to add a battery pack - easy. You want to record, you can do that too.

Not saying Pulsar isn't a great scope, but I don't think I would widdle it down to minimizing the difference to just the picture. That in itself should be a huge factor.
 
Originally Posted By: BocephussOriginally Posted By: Catdog1Originally Posted By: varminter .223Buy as much as you can justify. The stuff is cool and I don't think anyone has been disappointed with what they ended up with other than maybe some guys wishing they had bought more. I would love to try the Trijicon stuff but dang twice the money and few bells and whistles. I agree with this and honestly the only thing Trijicon has going for it is a great view. Although the view is not as good as the Trijicon, the Pulsar is huge in the features Department. I absolutely love the rechargeable clip-on battery that the new units are coming with. And enough cannot be said about the picture-in-picture feature, this has been huge for me.
If Pulsar had the same view as the Trijicon you would never hear anyone purchasing a Trijicon.

Ha, the "only" thing you mention it has going for it, should be what people place 90% of their decision on. Positively ID'ing at night with thermal is one the most debated and subjective topics in the thermal world. Lets not forget to add the Trijicon is tried and true technology that isn't currently experiencing "POI" shift because of cold weather. You want to add a battery pack - easy. You want to record, you can do that too.

Not saying Pulsar isn't a great scope, but I don't think I would widdle it down to minimizing the difference to just the picture. That in itself should be a huge factor.

Have you looked through an xp50? I question how much better trijicon is. I would bet the farm it is nowhere twice as good yet its twice the money. The only iding issue is when a crittter is facing you and sitting. When they are broadside and or moving there is no iding issue. I doubt trijicon would help id in this instance because all you are seeing is the heat and shape. Dogs that look like coyotes will look like coyotes in all thermal because their only difference is color. The on-board video allows you to learn a lot by viewing your misses and you're running shots
 
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