Remington safety
- Thread starter tripod3
- Start date
coleridge
New member
Originally Posted By: tripod3I haven't owned a Rem rifle in a long time either and would much prefer the Win safety. This also allows more trigger choices.
Seems like money well spent.
While I totally agree the Winchester type safety is better... Remington safeties ONLY block the trigger. There is still nothing other than the sear keeping the springs & firing pin at bay. A safety that captures the actual firing pin is WAY better!
But, I have to wonder how it would give "more trigger choices"? The rem 700 is the most accessorized action out there and not sure there is another make available with more aftermarket options. If a company makes triggers, they make one for the 700.
Seems like money well spent.
While I totally agree the Winchester type safety is better... Remington safeties ONLY block the trigger. There is still nothing other than the sear keeping the springs & firing pin at bay. A safety that captures the actual firing pin is WAY better!
But, I have to wonder how it would give "more trigger choices"? The rem 700 is the most accessorized action out there and not sure there is another make available with more aftermarket options. If a company makes triggers, they make one for the 700.
Not for me, I like to flick that safety off with my thumb on a snap shot.
I have not had trouble with Remington triggers, but others have, probably because they were set too light or gummed up with crap.
On my own rifles I hone the trigger pin holes, sear a couple of surfaces, put some gysum from Brownell's on the stoned surfaces, re spring...end up with a whale of a trigger, Walker style...and I love them.
I like the safeties on Savages and old tang safety Rugers the best, but you have to consider the whole package.
Guys that shoot PRS can teach us a lot about what gums and cruds up triggers, I just do not put my gun though that much abuse without some maintance. I rode horses and mules with a rifle scabbard on the side, rifles got pretty dirty at times, but I never had any problems. Hunting with your rifle in the front seat of the truck with the muzzle on the floorboard of the pick up will sure get a rifle filthy, wash out the trigger with lighter fluid while the gun is still in the stock.
You make your own luck with trigger time at the rifle range, problems with a gun will show up, magazines, feed ramps, triggers, scopes, stock screws, scope screws, etc. Don't be like the guy that I met a guy out in the field that missed a nice buck and he had expected Wal Mart to sight in his rifle. Mass produced production parts are just that, some are out of spec, some are not assembled correctly, and some are junk. You should go to the field with a proven weapon.
IN regards to this Safety issue on a Remington bolt and Triggers, do what gives you confidence, test that confidence at the rifle range.
This is just a hobby, like what you like...no big deal.
I have not had trouble with Remington triggers, but others have, probably because they were set too light or gummed up with crap.
On my own rifles I hone the trigger pin holes, sear a couple of surfaces, put some gysum from Brownell's on the stoned surfaces, re spring...end up with a whale of a trigger, Walker style...and I love them.
I like the safeties on Savages and old tang safety Rugers the best, but you have to consider the whole package.
Guys that shoot PRS can teach us a lot about what gums and cruds up triggers, I just do not put my gun though that much abuse without some maintance. I rode horses and mules with a rifle scabbard on the side, rifles got pretty dirty at times, but I never had any problems. Hunting with your rifle in the front seat of the truck with the muzzle on the floorboard of the pick up will sure get a rifle filthy, wash out the trigger with lighter fluid while the gun is still in the stock.
You make your own luck with trigger time at the rifle range, problems with a gun will show up, magazines, feed ramps, triggers, scopes, stock screws, scope screws, etc. Don't be like the guy that I met a guy out in the field that missed a nice buck and he had expected Wal Mart to sight in his rifle. Mass produced production parts are just that, some are out of spec, some are not assembled correctly, and some are junk. You should go to the field with a proven weapon.
IN regards to this Safety issue on a Remington bolt and Triggers, do what gives you confidence, test that confidence at the rifle range.
This is just a hobby, like what you like...no big deal.
tripod3
New member
Originally Posted By: coleridgeOriginally Posted By: tripod3I haven't owned a Rem rifle in a long time either and would much prefer the Win safety. This also allows more trigger choices.
Seems like money well spent.
While I totally agree the Winchester type safety is better... Remington safeties ONLY block the trigger. There is still nothing other than the sear keeping the springs & firing pin at bay. A safety that captures the actual firing pin is WAY better!
But, I have to wonder how it would give "more trigger choices"? The rem 700 is the most accessorized action out there and not sure there is another make available with more aftermarket options. If a company makes triggers, they make one for the 700.
It is my understanding not first hand that there are some very good triggers available without a safety feature. Yes most companies offer a trigger model for Rem.
Seems like money well spent.
While I totally agree the Winchester type safety is better... Remington safeties ONLY block the trigger. There is still nothing other than the sear keeping the springs & firing pin at bay. A safety that captures the actual firing pin is WAY better!
But, I have to wonder how it would give "more trigger choices"? The rem 700 is the most accessorized action out there and not sure there is another make available with more aftermarket options. If a company makes triggers, they make one for the 700.
It is my understanding not first hand that there are some very good triggers available without a safety feature. Yes most companies offer a trigger model for Rem.
Lots of excellent trigger/safety info above.
Admittedly, my personal experience with the Walker trigger was extremely limited (and of a short duration).
Briefly, details: NIB 40XC (product of custom shop). Very first round fired was FORS (Remington's acronym for "fire on release of safety".) Hand no where near trigger guard at the time.
The rifle was an extremely accurate rifle, perfectly built and well suited for offhand competition on the 700 action. Trigger was last adjusted at factory and any dirt therein was supplied with the rifle when purchased. It was, unfortunately type that locked bolt when safety on (A really bad idea on a design with the propensity to FORS.)
Any rate, I dehorned the safety in order to enable unloading the rifle without taking it off safe (as Remington later did on their recall) and ended up trading it off to a friend (after advising him of the safety issue) and happily went back to my Mod. 70's. I believe my friend put a Timney in it and was very satisfied with the rifle.
Regards,
hm
Admittedly, my personal experience with the Walker trigger was extremely limited (and of a short duration).
Briefly, details: NIB 40XC (product of custom shop). Very first round fired was FORS (Remington's acronym for "fire on release of safety".) Hand no where near trigger guard at the time.
The rifle was an extremely accurate rifle, perfectly built and well suited for offhand competition on the 700 action. Trigger was last adjusted at factory and any dirt therein was supplied with the rifle when purchased. It was, unfortunately type that locked bolt when safety on (A really bad idea on a design with the propensity to FORS.)
Any rate, I dehorned the safety in order to enable unloading the rifle without taking it off safe (as Remington later did on their recall) and ended up trading it off to a friend (after advising him of the safety issue) and happily went back to my Mod. 70's. I believe my friend put a Timney in it and was very satisfied with the rifle.
Regards,
hm
tripod3
New member
Originally Posted By: ackleymanNot for me, I like to flick that safety off with my thumb on a snap shot.
I have not had trouble with Remington triggers, but others have, probably because they were set too light or gummed up with crap.
On my own rifles I hone the trigger pin holes, sear a couple of surfaces, put some gysum from Brownell's on the stoned surfaces, re spring...end up with a whale of a trigger, Walker style...and I love them.
I like the safeties on Savages and old tang safety Rugers the best, but you have to consider the whole package.
Guys that shoot PRS can teach us a lot about what gums and cruds up triggers, I just do not put my gun though that much abuse without some maintance. I rode horses and mules with a rifle scabbard on the side, rifles got pretty dirty at times, but I never had any problems. Hunting with your rifle in the front seat of the truck with the muzzle on the floorboard of the pick up will sure get a rifle filthy, wash out the trigger with lighter fluid while the gun is still in the stock.
You make your own luck with trigger time at the rifle range, problems with a gun will show up, magazines, feed ramps, triggers, scopes, stock screws, scope screws, etc. Don't be like the guy that I met a guy out in the field that missed a nice buck and he had expected Wal Mart to sight in his rifle. Mass produced production parts are just that, some are out of spec, some are not assembled correctly, and some are junk. You should go to the field with a proven weapon.
IN regards to this Safety issue on a Remington bolt and Triggers, do what gives you confidence, test that confidence at the rifle range.
This is just a hobby, like what you like...no big deal.
All common sense stuff that some overlook.
I had a Rem rifle that Rem recommended I send in or to a Rem authorized service center which I did. I bought it new, it was low round count like under 200, plus I keep my weapons pristine, something all my friends tease me about.
Receiving the rifle back with a clean bill of health we went out to check sight in. Upon removing the safety the rifle discharged downrange. Later the rifle repeated the same thing.
I soon sold the rifle and have not owned a Rem rifle since.
I have never had or heard of any such thing with a Win, Savage, Tikka, Sako, Sauer, Kimber, or for any other rifle for that matter.
So I don't begrudge others for choosing or liking their Rem rifles as this thread demonstrates.
However I cannot say the same applies to those owners action toward others who don't choose Rem.
The fact is it has happened to me and many others and Rem is replacing millions of triggers. I have never seen any other rifle manufacturer do this either.
I have not had trouble with Remington triggers, but others have, probably because they were set too light or gummed up with crap.
On my own rifles I hone the trigger pin holes, sear a couple of surfaces, put some gysum from Brownell's on the stoned surfaces, re spring...end up with a whale of a trigger, Walker style...and I love them.
I like the safeties on Savages and old tang safety Rugers the best, but you have to consider the whole package.
Guys that shoot PRS can teach us a lot about what gums and cruds up triggers, I just do not put my gun though that much abuse without some maintance. I rode horses and mules with a rifle scabbard on the side, rifles got pretty dirty at times, but I never had any problems. Hunting with your rifle in the front seat of the truck with the muzzle on the floorboard of the pick up will sure get a rifle filthy, wash out the trigger with lighter fluid while the gun is still in the stock.
You make your own luck with trigger time at the rifle range, problems with a gun will show up, magazines, feed ramps, triggers, scopes, stock screws, scope screws, etc. Don't be like the guy that I met a guy out in the field that missed a nice buck and he had expected Wal Mart to sight in his rifle. Mass produced production parts are just that, some are out of spec, some are not assembled correctly, and some are junk. You should go to the field with a proven weapon.
IN regards to this Safety issue on a Remington bolt and Triggers, do what gives you confidence, test that confidence at the rifle range.
This is just a hobby, like what you like...no big deal.
All common sense stuff that some overlook.
I had a Rem rifle that Rem recommended I send in or to a Rem authorized service center which I did. I bought it new, it was low round count like under 200, plus I keep my weapons pristine, something all my friends tease me about.
Receiving the rifle back with a clean bill of health we went out to check sight in. Upon removing the safety the rifle discharged downrange. Later the rifle repeated the same thing.
I soon sold the rifle and have not owned a Rem rifle since.
I have never had or heard of any such thing with a Win, Savage, Tikka, Sako, Sauer, Kimber, or for any other rifle for that matter.
So I don't begrudge others for choosing or liking their Rem rifles as this thread demonstrates.
However I cannot say the same applies to those owners action toward others who don't choose Rem.
The fact is it has happened to me and many others and Rem is replacing millions of triggers. I have never seen any other rifle manufacturer do this either.
Production items get machined or cast out of spec at times, and this is the issue with some of the Rem triggers. I have been shooting them for 45 years, no problems yet.
I do like the idea of the three position safety, but many brands of after market triggers exist also.
The Remington 700's are very, very rigid actions, and I hang 28-31" unturned blanks off of them that are not supported in any way, not bedded underneath the barrel, completely freefloated from the recoil lug forward. Remington's are also some of the safest actions ever made when it comes to handling dangerous over loads where a guy has used the wrong powder or made the wrong adjustment on his powder scale.
In the following pictures, a friend of mine was dying from COPD. He was in the final days of his life and wanted to teach his grand son to reload. My friend with all the medications he was taking made the wrong adjustment on his Older Ohaus scale and put a 10g over max charge of 3031 with a 55g bullet in a 22/250 Remington 700. The 11 year old shot the round without safety glasses, and scared him to death. Of course the bolt was locked up solid after firing. As I unscrewed the barrel, I could hear cracking of metal giving way, and the brass had completely filled up the inside of the Remington bolt head, cracked the outside of the Remington bolt head, and expanded the bolt head to the side of the action. Remington's three rings of steel had prevented a catastrophic failure.
You can see part of the extractor welded to the edge of this piece of brass
Here you can see where the brass flowed to fill in the recess in the bolt head, and the curl to the left is the actual piece of bolt head that broke off when I unscrewed the barrel. The extractor is welded in the brass. If this same thing had happened in a rifle with no bolt recess, metal would have been escaping out the gas ports.
Another picture of how the case head blew out and was very fluid when it molded it's self around the inside of the bolt head.
Close up of the bolt head after I unscrewed the barrel, breaking off part of the bolt head as it was welded to inside of the action.
Another pic of the bolt head, one side of the bolt head did not break off
Another pic of the case with the brass that flowed around the bolt recess.
Remington bolt heads are put on the bolt body in a separate operation. The Remington bolt head is a very special piece of equipment made to take ungodly pressures of 150,000 PSI. Winchester bolt heads are made in the same way. Other than these two companies, no other bolts are as strong, that I know of. I have a NASSA engineer friend that is writing a book on current actions and their strengths, and he said that the results are going to shock a lot of people and probably put some action makers out of business.
So, you can see from the pictures that Remingtons's Three Rings of Steel really work in catastrophic failures. I would hate to guess what would have happened with any action that was cast, or where the action was not designed to have a recessed bolt face or recessed bolt nose machined in the barrel. These two issues are MAJOR considerations in Safety.
Now, consider the condition of the action. I checked the lugs on the bolt and lugs in the action, there were no indentions what so ever where the metal may have been crushed. So, I bought a new bolt and put a 6 Dasher on the action, and it is shooting bug holes to this very day.
Another thing to consider, if this bolt had been modified to have a Sako or M 16 type of extractor installed, that part would have been a bullet flying to who knows where.
So, if you don't like a Remington Trigger, get a Rifle basic, timney, jewel, Bix and Andy, or others because the rest of the package is well worth having...especially when it comes to resale.
The book that is coming out will also have some computations in it as to how rigid various actions are, Remington's are way up the ladder. Obviously, I am shooting bug holes with 28-31" unturned blanks(1.25" straight, no contour) hanging on them.
I am not trying to put down any other action maker, just trying to give credit where credit is due.
Remington's design in this aspect is a great one. I do like the aspect of replacing the safety with a three way safety like Winchester and upgrading the triggers to aftermarket triggers. I just usually hone my Walker triggers, re spring, and rock on.
I do like the idea of the three position safety, but many brands of after market triggers exist also.
The Remington 700's are very, very rigid actions, and I hang 28-31" unturned blanks off of them that are not supported in any way, not bedded underneath the barrel, completely freefloated from the recoil lug forward. Remington's are also some of the safest actions ever made when it comes to handling dangerous over loads where a guy has used the wrong powder or made the wrong adjustment on his powder scale.
In the following pictures, a friend of mine was dying from COPD. He was in the final days of his life and wanted to teach his grand son to reload. My friend with all the medications he was taking made the wrong adjustment on his Older Ohaus scale and put a 10g over max charge of 3031 with a 55g bullet in a 22/250 Remington 700. The 11 year old shot the round without safety glasses, and scared him to death. Of course the bolt was locked up solid after firing. As I unscrewed the barrel, I could hear cracking of metal giving way, and the brass had completely filled up the inside of the Remington bolt head, cracked the outside of the Remington bolt head, and expanded the bolt head to the side of the action. Remington's three rings of steel had prevented a catastrophic failure.
You can see part of the extractor welded to the edge of this piece of brass
Here you can see where the brass flowed to fill in the recess in the bolt head, and the curl to the left is the actual piece of bolt head that broke off when I unscrewed the barrel. The extractor is welded in the brass. If this same thing had happened in a rifle with no bolt recess, metal would have been escaping out the gas ports.
Another picture of how the case head blew out and was very fluid when it molded it's self around the inside of the bolt head.
Close up of the bolt head after I unscrewed the barrel, breaking off part of the bolt head as it was welded to inside of the action.
Another pic of the bolt head, one side of the bolt head did not break off
Another pic of the case with the brass that flowed around the bolt recess.
Remington bolt heads are put on the bolt body in a separate operation. The Remington bolt head is a very special piece of equipment made to take ungodly pressures of 150,000 PSI. Winchester bolt heads are made in the same way. Other than these two companies, no other bolts are as strong, that I know of. I have a NASSA engineer friend that is writing a book on current actions and their strengths, and he said that the results are going to shock a lot of people and probably put some action makers out of business.
So, you can see from the pictures that Remingtons's Three Rings of Steel really work in catastrophic failures. I would hate to guess what would have happened with any action that was cast, or where the action was not designed to have a recessed bolt face or recessed bolt nose machined in the barrel. These two issues are MAJOR considerations in Safety.
Now, consider the condition of the action. I checked the lugs on the bolt and lugs in the action, there were no indentions what so ever where the metal may have been crushed. So, I bought a new bolt and put a 6 Dasher on the action, and it is shooting bug holes to this very day.
Another thing to consider, if this bolt had been modified to have a Sako or M 16 type of extractor installed, that part would have been a bullet flying to who knows where.
So, if you don't like a Remington Trigger, get a Rifle basic, timney, jewel, Bix and Andy, or others because the rest of the package is well worth having...especially when it comes to resale.
The book that is coming out will also have some computations in it as to how rigid various actions are, Remington's are way up the ladder. Obviously, I am shooting bug holes with 28-31" unturned blanks(1.25" straight, no contour) hanging on them.
I am not trying to put down any other action maker, just trying to give credit where credit is due.
Remington's design in this aspect is a great one. I do like the aspect of replacing the safety with a three way safety like Winchester and upgrading the triggers to aftermarket triggers. I just usually hone my Walker triggers, re spring, and rock on.
Smokin Barrel
Active member
That is some pretty crazy stuff, Ack! Hopefully your buddy's grandson was OK?
Winny Fan
New member
http://gentrycustom.com/safeties/
Money well spent, IMO. I've never had a Remington 700 mis-fire on me, but the three position Model 70 type safety is a favorite of mine on serious hunting rifles of the 700 flavor.
Money well spent, IMO. I've never had a Remington 700 mis-fire on me, but the three position Model 70 type safety is a favorite of mine on serious hunting rifles of the 700 flavor.
