Changing my bird hunting philosophy - need O/U recommendations

Brad W

New member
So I usually hunt pheasant with my Rem 1100 2 3/4" 12 gauge. It does the job when I get the bead on them. I have found that when hunting with others I am usually beat to the shot. I am not a small man but the weight of the 1100 seems to leave me a fraction of a second behind. I also notice that I end up taking long shots more often than when I use my dad's aluminum receiver 870 wingmaster. I have come to the conclusion that my one gun for all 1100 idea was dead wrong. It works great for turkey and water fowl but it's too slow for pheasant and really bad for grouse.

My dad is a grouse fanatic and used to shoot a Beretta silver pigeon and has a backup pigeon in the safe "just in case". Both are 20 gauge but with 28 gauge barrels as well. He found himself moving to the 28 gauge barrels for the reduced recoil. He takes more birds running our pointers every year than anyone I have ever met. Recently he picked up a Stevens 555 28 gauge. It's not a beautiful gun, it's a bit tight and clunky to open and close, but my goodness it's light! It's like swinging around a broom handle! We shot some Clay's with it and we both shot effortlessly. I could not wipe the smile from my face after smashing clay after clay without really even trying. I have never been so fast or confident with a shotgun.

I am sold. I need a light O/U in 20 or 28. My brother thinks 28 is too small for pheasant but again my dad seems to prove otherwise. What do you guys think about 20 vs 28?

So what I am really after is 20 or 28 gauge super light weight O/U shotgun recommendations. Any especially good options out there?

Thanks
Brad
 
I love my 28 gauges! The disadvantage is most guns are 2.75 chambers and when you go to bigger shot (pheasant) you are throwing a lot less pellets. You can buy 1 oz loads now. If you are that good, like your dad, then good to go.
Caesar Guireni is what I have and I love it.
One thing to consider is the newer lighter 12 ga semi autos. Beretta A300 is about 7.5#, plus an all weather gun.. About a pound more than my 28 ga CG.
20ga does have 3" so more pellets but I have no experience with 20s.
Can't "borrow" your dad's backup gun?
 
Last edited:
Brad,
I've never heard of an aluminum receiver Remington 870 Wingmaster. As far as I'm aware all Wingmsters are steel receivers? To your question, remember the first rule of hitting with a shotgun is that the gun must fit you. If the gun doesn't fit and throw the pattern where you are looking you aren't going to hit with it. And nobody other than you knows if the gun fits or not. In O/U guns I shoot Beretta, Browning doesn't fit me well. Either company builds a fine gun. There some lightweight semi auto guns from Beretta and especially so from Benelli.
 


Bmash:
This gun weighs a little more than 5lbs I believe. It's unreal to move around. Feels like a toy almost. I also like the low recoil and frankly I almost never take more than 2 shots so the quick low recoil 2nd Chance of the over and under is appealing. I know autos reduce recoil but I just shot this so much better.

I can borrow his guns certainly. I think there is a pride of ownership I enjoy and he also lives in another state. Borrowing works great if I am back home in Wisconsin but when I'm down in Kansas "borrowing" becomes keeping. I am sure he would give one too me but I would never ask.

CG:

I did some googling and you may be correct. My dad told me it was aluminum and frankly with some finish wear on the receiver that is bright white almost I assumed it was. It is stamped "lightweight" so this made sense. Apparently it is still steel it was just built with a smaller lighter weight receiver. Learned something new today.

I guess in terms of fit maybe I should just buy the Stevens. The stock actually seemed a bit short (I'm 6'2") but man I hit my first through 10 Clay's without effort the first time I picked up the gun. This was using a throwing machine as well. I only missed when I got cocky and tried to shoot a double and in our machine. They fly out 45 degrees from each other. I very much missed both of those anticipating the huge swing between them. I am not a trap shooter at all. We just shoot Clay's maybe twice a year to make sure we are dialed in. Once I switched back to single Clay's I was nearly 100% again. I think I missed my first shot once or twice. I don't even know how that compares to trap shooter so I'm not trying to brag or claim it's incredible but for me if I had my 1100 I'd say I'd be closer to 70%.

Using the 1100 I have an almost slow motion memory of swinging up past it then back down and on before I could take a good shot. With this gun I would start with it down and when the clay flew I'd pull it up and it would just be there with the bead steady. Quite amazing actually which is why I must have one haha.
 
Last edited:
I just sold a Browning Superposed Lightning in 20 ga(6 lb 3 oz) with 28" barrels it had 3" chambers but for wild pheasants I use 2 3/4" 1 oz loads of 5's only going to 3" in Bismuth for nontox areas.

My goto gun for wild pheasants now is a 5 lb 15 oz Bernardelli 12ga sxs and my goto load is still 1 oz of 5's or 6's.

If you like the semi-auto platform there are a number of them that crowd either side of 6 lbs, Franchi AL-48, Weatherby SA-o8, Benelli Montfeltro, Stroeger M3020 etc some running quite a bit under 6 lbs. Nice thing they can be had for less than a decent O/U.

As far as your dads aluminum framed 870 I think if you look close it is a Rem Model 31 they made an Aluminum framed Extra Light/Lightweight in this model.. They look very much like and 870

My little Bernardelli and the "Pheasant Machine"

 
Last edited:
Originally Posted By: AWSI just sold a Browning Superposed Lightning in 20 ga(6 lb 3 oz) with 28" barrels it had 3" chambers but for wild pheasants I use 2 3/4" 1 oz loads of 5's only going to 3" in Bismuth for nontox areas.

My goto gun for wild pheasants now is a 5 lb 15 oz Bernardelli 12ga sxs and my goto load is still 1 oz of 5's or 6's.

If you like the semi-auto platform there are a number of them that crowd either side of 6 lbs, Franchi AL-48, Weatherby SA-o8, Benelli Montfeltro, Stroeger M3020 etc some running quite a bit under 6 lbs. Nice thing they can be had for less than a decent O/U.

As far as your dads aluminum framed 870 I think if you look close it is a Rem Model 31 they made an Aluminum framed Extra Light/Lightweight in this model.. They look very much like and 870

My little Bernardelli and the "Pheasant Machine"



Great photo!

I think I have a bit of illogical over under fever. Illogical as it is I still want one haha but I will definitely look into those autos to see if I am persuaded.

As for the 870 it is definitely an 870. The 31 would be an easy mistake as you have said but it's just a lightweight 870 which has a smaller receiver. I carried it for years growing up and have done a lot of the upkeep on the old trusty workhorse. My dad once said it had an aluminum receiver and I took that at face value but he must have been mistaken.

Anyone have experience with some of these Turkish made over and unders? I am hesitant because I usually stick to name brand stuff...but my dad is the same way and was persuaded by the Stevens.
 
Last edited:
If it were me... before I spent $850 - $1,000 dollars on a Turkish gun I would be patient and shop around for a very good condition used but well cared for "B" gun. Used Browning and Beretta O/U guns can be had for $1200 give or take and gives more bang for the buck. Reliability, pride of ownership and resale value makes a worn but loved B-Gun a better deal IMHO. If semi auto's are considered add Benelli to the B-Guns.
 
That's a good idea as well. I'll keep an eye out. Any good used shotgun websites? Most gun sites don't seem to have much for shotguns, let alone over and unders. I'll keep an eye on some local shops and Armslist as well.
 
Check out Shotgunworld... Like anywhere else sort through the BS'ers and figure out who to listen to. The site has a classified section that's pretty good, I've bought a couple shotguns there.
 
No experience with Turkish O/U's but I do have a CZ Bobwhite 20 gauge sxs w/double triggers. It is serviceable, I use it where I have to shoot non-toxics specificly high volume steel(dove hunting) all my other hunting that requires non-toxics get ITX or Bismuth through a higher quality gun.

The downfall of most inexpensive O/Us is the single trigger firing system and firing pins. The barrel changing on most single trigger O/U is provided by a spring loaded pendullum and is a fairly delicate system. Firing pins are subject to a lot of stress, they have to be hardenned and temperred just right or they get to brittle and break or too soft and deform.

When you build a gun to a price well below other manufacturers you have to cut corners somewhere. First is going to a place with lower priced wages, which reflects on the experience of the workers, as the experience of the workers increase the quality of the product increases, wages increase and cost go up.

First were the Belgiums(copies of English and German shotguns), then production was moved to Spain and now to Turkey, even Italy is having guns and parts manufactured in Turkey.

Every year Turkish guns get better but still aren't at the level of the top tier manufactures.

So it is a crap shoot when you buy a Turkish gun, most will be serviceable but longivity is still in question, the chances of getting a turd/lemon is increased. So you take a chance, if your a average hunter with just a few boxes of shell through your gun a year you odds are better than a high volume dove hunter or SC/Trap/Skeet shooter.

Good luck

I personally wouldn't buy a single trigger double barrel shotgun either sxs or O/U that hasn't been in production for many years, has high volume sales and a history of GOOD guns.

Another place to get some pretty good deal on O/U is your local trap and skeet range there are always newbies selling of their field guns to pay for new specialized games guns.
 
Last edited:
Big plus one with AWS about the trap and skeet clubs. Another plus is you'll be able to shoot it a round or two before you decide.
PS Don't shoot a straight while testing if you haven't agreed on a price yet!

 
Last edited:
Used trap and skeet guns are the most abused and most are very well worn. SO keep this in mind and keep a sharp eye. You can find one. I use the 28guage all the time for everything in upland hunting. Longshot is your best powder if you roll your own. Sometime the fit can be a little difficult because we all have to change our outer garments to suit the weather. what may fit in cold weather with a hunting coat might not work as well on a hot day of dove shooting. Or vice versa.
You have had some good advice and the only thing that I can think of, is after you hurried along your search, the possibly get down to Tulsa OK for the big gun show in OCT. There is usually more shotguns at that show than any I have ever seen. (It's big 2 stories) You will be able to shoulder plenty. screw in chokes are really nice but if you think you can settle for a double of sorts,(without them) make sure it has the chokes you prefer. without getting too technical you can tailor your loads to suit you chokes and needs. If,,, You handload. And if you decide to do that get a MEC 9000 (progressive) they are worth every penny. I have friends that use the Ponsness Warrens but hey lets spend where we need to.
CZ has a 28ga Pump but it looks clunky... JMHO FWIW They have the doubles too. OUs and SXS Remington had a pump and in the OU department, the Brownings are the best out of all the Japanese made guns (Winchesters and Weatherbys). These mentioned are more to the entry level and just above. Get into the Berretas any of the Italian, English, or some German made guns and the prices go up.
Please find something that you can shoot good and don't look back. I have shot in a Group with guys sporting 10,000 dollar Berrettas and one had a 10-12K Parker SXS and I shot more Pheasant than all of them. My Browning Citori works for me and it is fine. There used to be an AYA that was not a bad little SXS But I do not see them like I used to.
I also prefer to stay with the 3/4 ounce loads since they are Square. The 1 ounce is getting too much. A sixteen gauge kicks less than a twenty but it has gotten so hard to find shells, forget it.
The Ithaca in a twenty is a lot of fun as well as a Franchi. But both of these kick pretty good because of weight ( Or Lack of ) they are light and Franchi is recoil operated like the Old Hunpback Browning. I think they have a Franchi 28 out now,, and If you like the 28 then stay with it.
Good luck and good shooting
 
Nothing against the 28 ga, but if pheasants are one of the main quarry I would go no lower than the 20. Of course ammo choices and availability can be an issue with the 28 ga.

I was just on a MI grouse hunt with the Son, he wanted to take 16 gauges. We took a Model 12 & Model 37, ended with 7 grouse.

One of my favorite lightweight shotguns is a Citori, 'Lightning Feather', 20 ga, 26" barrels, 3" chambers.
 
When I think of upland and lightweight the only thing that comes to my mind is the franchi 48AL.....5.5# and can be had in 20/28gauge.


And affordable. Only downside is 2 3/4 chambers......I only hunt grouse so this isn’t a problem for me. Can’t speak for pheasants....might could find and older 48 in 12g.


The franchi affinity is pretty lightweight as well, 3” chambers and inertia. Appears to be getting a lot of positive feedback.

The instinct line of o/u are very light as well, better quality than a Turkish gun I’m sure.
 
I have a Biakal, made in Russia. It's a side by side, it's light weight, 24 maybe 26" barrels, screw chokes, and chambered for 2.75 and 3" shells. Absolute love this bird gun, NiB $425! Hard to find since the embargo on Russian made stuff. By light weight I mean bout rip your shoulder off with 3" duck loads, but is great handler of a 2.75" high brass heavy loads for grouse, etc.
I keep a Browning Citori for ducks, and geese. While I love this gun as well, shoots great, able to digest up to 3.5" shells, it would be a big gun to walk corn stubble all day with.
 
Originally Posted By: sandy hicksDidnt all of the japanese o/u come out of SKB.

No, there were several manufacturers. SKB is notable for imports into the USA under the Ithaca and Weatherby brands. Miroku makes the Brownings and used to make the high end Charles Daly imports. Both of those Japanese makers produce extremely good quality firearms for other brands and also marketed products with their own names on them. There's another Japanese maker that's good but I can't drag them out of my foggy memory right now.
 
Olin-Kendosha, made the Winchester 101's and the Nikko brands, my old Nikko/101 Internatiional trap gun(only difference is the print on the bottom even the engraving is exactly the same)has over a quarter million shot shells through it and still locks up like a vault. I still own my 101 12ga Skeet gun but have sold off the sub gauge guns. I bought them all in 1966.
 
Nikko! Thanks, that's the one that I couldn't scrounge out of the dusty memory bank.
smile.gif
 
Back
Top