Sorting brass?s

zr600

New member
Ok if you are to sort your brass by weight how far of a spread do you allow? I found out my chamber isn't big enough for lapua brass so I have to switch to Winchester brass.
 
Originally Posted By: DAAI wouldn't bother.

- DAA

You beat me to it. I tried weight sorting brass once...I think I made it through about 20 or 25 pieces before i decided I was not going to bother.

If Winchester is so bad get a different brand. Nosler maybe or I have heard good things about privi brass.
 
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Unless your planning on shooting Bench Rest where it could make a very slight difference in group size or you just want to do it for your own satisfaction, I wouldn't mess with it.
 
The concept of weighing the brass relies on the idea that similar weighted brass are the same size. but fired brass that is stretching and then trimmed will always weigh less than before.

But then what's the point?

The main concept, of what i think you are trying to figure out, is the volume and that is different.

But, filling cases with the same medium to then pour them out and weight the medium to figure out the volume is as others have said a bench rest game. Will it make a difference, yes, but so would getting a better quality scale that measures to the hundredth vs. tenth. (a lot more impact than case weight) imo
 
Originally Posted By: Tbone-AZ

But, filling cases with the same medium to then pour them out and weight the medium to figure out the volume is as others have said a bench rest game. Will it make a difference, yes, but so would getting a better quality scale that measures to the hundredth vs. tenth. (a lot more impact than case weight) imo

Very few bench rest shooters ever bother checking case volume but they sure as heck never bother weighing powder charges. I mean, I've "heard of it", but I've never actually seen one doing it. Every bench rest match I've ever seen, not one single soul was weighing one single powder charge.

Why people always blame this kind of stuff on bench rest shooters has always been a mystery to me. I guess people that haven't ever been around it have all kinds of weird notions about it though.

Case volume and nitty gritty powder weighing are long range stuff. Bench rest shooters don't have any reason to mess with any of that.

- DAA
 
Originally Posted By: Tbone-AZDo you use a teaspoon to measure a charge? Of course not.

For point blank range? Yeah, more or less I do.

I don't weigh any of my coyote hunting ammo. And there's no reason to weigh charges for 100 -200 yard bench rest either.

- DAA
 
Once you identify your accuracy node(s) +/- .1 gr. doesn't make enough difference to worry about IMO.

I weighed my 600 and beyond charges, but, if truth be known, I think it did more good for my mental state than it did for the POI, at least at 600.
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I never weigh hunting charges.

Regards,
hm
 
I used to think that too.

Then i used a better scale. My Standard Deviation went down and kept it consistent.

If you don't think .1 gr makes a difference, then why do a ladder test?

If your rifle likes 25.5grs and gets the best accuracy for your rifle, try shooting 5 round groups at 25.3, 25.4 and so on for 5 different grain loads. Go shoot the 100yrd range and see if your groups are all the same size. Do your 25.3 to 25.5 loads all shoot the same size groups? of course not.

it's simple to test and figure out. try it..

Then try a better scale not one overpriced because it's for reloading. One that will tell you the difference to .02 gr, once you measure out a few of these to that level of accuracy you will see that there are more than a few pieces of powder in that difference (25.4-25.5gr with Varget it's about 15 grains usually).

The groups will get better and being able to get sub.5 moa is a lot easier.
 
Originally Posted By: Tbone-AZThen i used a better scale. My Standard Deviation went down and kept it consistent.



S.D. is entirely meaningless in the context of bench rest accuracy. Which is the context you were using.


Originally Posted By: Tbone-AZIf you don't think .1 gr makes a difference, then why do a ladder test?




Why use .1 gr. in a ladder test? I sure as heck don't. But to humor you... My purpose in a ladder test, is to identify a sweet spot where varying powder charge by +/- .1 won't have any effect on group size. It's kind of like the whole point of doing it. I honestly don't know what they heck point you are trying to make?


Originally Posted By: Tbone-AZDo your 25.3 to 25.5 loads all shoot the same size groups? of course not.




I know you are just using arbitrary numbers to make a point. So I'll go along with that. But, uhh, yeah, dude, yes, they do shoot the same. That's the point being made here. The point proven by bench rest shooters around the world over and over again.

A load that will open up groups at 200 yards (bench rest is the context, remember?) with +/- a tenth is a load my whole program is designed to avoid like the plague. If your groups show a real change at point blank range with such a small powder charge difference, you might want to look into re-doing your loads. Try a different powder, most likely.

Look, I don't want to get dragged into anything here. You brought up the context of bench rest shooters being the arena where case volume sorting and weighing charges to the Nth degree is common and gives an advantage. I simply wanted to point out that you have that quite wrong. Short range bench rest shooters don't bother with that stuff.

It's a myth that seems pervasive. But, it is just that, a myth. I was just trying to help you understand that.

And, no offense, but I don't need a lesson on load tuning from you. Sounds like you end up with some finicky loads
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.

- DAA
 
Originally Posted By: Tbone-AZThe groups will get better and being able to get sub.5 moa is a lot easier.

Just one more note...

Sub .5 MOA is also meaningless in the context of short range bench rest. Sub .25 MOA is about where it starts but to be consistently in the hunt you really need to be consistently sub .2 MOA.

They don't have to weigh charges to do that, BTW... They routinely do it measuring powder charges a teaspoon, as you put it.

- DAA
 
ZR, I would take the time to weigh your cases. But after forming the necks in 22-243 Id say its pretty importent to anneal them.
Annealed cases will make a bigger difference than weighing cases into different weight groups.
 
I weigh everything but Lapua, and I've found some brass to vary up to 5 grains (in one extreme case.). For a 308, I'd probably go with 2 grains, just to eliminate any outliers. I would not do this sorting until after I fired and trimmed the brass.

As for .1 making a difference, it sure can. BR shooters load to conditions, do they not? Might be 30 grains today and 30.2 tomorrow, or 30.1 in the morning and 29.8 in the afternoon. They don't give a [beeep] about a node, it's all about right now.

To use some not so arbitrary numbers.... I have a 6.5 that has a nice wide node from 37.6 to 38.3 grains of Varget. Anywhere in there will shoot the same POI at point blank. 37.7-38 will shoot respectable groups that overlap even at distance. However, 37.9 grains will consistently ( and I mean 20+ times over) shoot smaller groups at 100 yards by enough that I wouldn't feel right about not loading it.
 
Originally Posted By: CZ527As for .1 making a difference, it sure can. BR shooters load to conditions, do they not? Might be 30 grains today and 30.2 tomorrow, or 30.1 in the morning and 29.8 in the afternoon. They don't give a [beeep] about a node, it's all about right now.


Yeah, but... They're throwing those charges. I know a lot of them, maybe even most of them actually believe their powder dumps throw to the tenth (ask them, they'll tell you), but, they're wrong, they don't... So while they frequently go up and down chasing conditions, they are never loading to any closer than +/- a tenth.

And, I never said a tenth can't or doesn't make a difference. That would be stupid.

I said I pursue loads where a tenth doesn't make a difference. So do short range BR shooters, whether they articulate it or know it or not.

The system of working up a load with a powder measure assures that finicky loads get automatically weeded out and never have a chance to rise to the top. If you're always working with a +/- .1 system, loads sensitive to .1 just ain't a gonna make the program.

And even temp stable powders are not totally inert to temperature. Not any of them. Any load sensitive to a tenth is likely to have some temperature sensitivity as well.

But I'm perfectly aware that many accurate loads are sensitive to a tenth either way. Loads like that are common as dirt. I try to avoid them for working loads though.

- DAA
 
Originally Posted By: Tbone-AZ

Then try a better scale not one overpriced because it's for reloading. One that will tell you the difference to .02 gr, once you measure out a few of these to that level of accuracy you will see that there are more than a few pieces of powder in that difference (25.4-25.5gr with Varget it's about 15 grains usually).


Are you guessing, or just making it up as you go along?

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Originally Posted By: fw707Originally Posted By: Tbone-AZ

Then try a better scale not one overpriced because it's for reloading. One that will tell you the difference to .02 gr, once you measure out a few of these to that level of accuracy you will see that there are more than a few pieces of powder in that difference (25.4-25.5gr with Varget it's about 15 grains usually).


Are you guessing, or just making it up as you go along?


lol.gif



I think he meant to type 5... and was probably referring to kernels. Maybe not.
 
Dave,

Serious question. Are you saying that my rifle, which is just a heavy sporter 6.5x47, has an issue with the load because it coincidentally prefers one charge over another in the center of a node- based purely on 100 yard group results. I mean, it shoots mid .3s with any load over that .7 range I mentioned earlier, but it'll shoot consistently better with the 37.9 load.

Or was your reply more about BR?
 
first, not trying to argue,but really just wanting a discussion.

I loaded my 22-250 with varget and 50gr vmax. Same primers from the same lots. same lot of powders. I like varget because it's supposed to be temp stable (haven't done a lot of tests to see, but hey in AZ with shooting in the summer at 110 @ 2000ft elev. and in the winter with a 8000 foot elevation and hunting in as low as -10 temps, might as well use it) I have seen how those kind of environmental can really changes the POI. by an inch or more.

I would load up 36.42gr loads. Those shot .33moa groups for that factory standard
 
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