Federal 9 MM BPLE Self Defense Ammo

Originally Posted By: GCSo I guess you're packing a .36 caliber cap and ball Colt black powder revolver? Using your logic there's no reason to advance technology beyond those lead round balls.

Don't talk foolishly. Ammo manufacturers want to sell their products, just like gun and cell phone manufacturers do. There are a lot of people who just can't live without the latest I-Phone, or latest generation auto pistol, stoked with the newest, "Bullet Of The Month". It doesn't mean everything else out there suddenly became less effective. Yes, ammunition has gotten better. But it doesn't mean loads that have been well proven, with an excellent track record that has lasted for decades, have some how magically become ineffective. And for your information, there have been far more people killed with lead round balls, and FMJ pistol rounds, than every "Bullet Of The Month" combined over the last decade, that every ninja out there lines up to buy.
 
LOL... poking a little fun. However speaking of talking foolishly, the HST has been around and in widespread successful use since 2002. Hardly a "bullet of the month."
 
Originally Posted By: GCHardly a "bullet of the month."

Or hardly the one and only to get the job done effectively.
 
Originally Posted By: billtOriginally Posted By: GCHardly a "bullet of the month."

Or hardly the one and only to get the job done effectively.

Who said that?
 
Originally Posted By: atdStick one through the cranium and it's a mute point.

Exactly..... Or through the heart.
 
Originally Posted By: GCWould you mind citing a reliable source for those so many horror stories of pass through striking innocents?

I will try when I get some time. I didn't save any of them. I just read quite a few of them while preparing to be a responsible every day carrier. I could be mistaken cause it's been a while since I read the last one. The gist is that there was a robery or similar crime at gunpoint. Think it was Minnesota. An armed citizen shot the criminal through the head and stopped the crime. Sadly a woman was struck by the bullet after it passed through the criminal and she later died. Citizen ended up being charged and going to jail. Doesn't matter if it's several instances or 1. It is our responsibility to do everything in our power to prevent something like that. I've heard some crazy stuff! One story was about a guy that went to prison after a defensive shooting because he was carrying handloads. Lawyers twisted it all around, saying that by loading his own ammo......his goal was to make some "extra deadly" ammo......rediculous! But sti the reason I only carry factory loaded ammunition.
 
Originally Posted By: Bowhunt
I've heard some crazy stuff! One story was about a guy that went to prison after a defensive shooting because he was carrying handloads. Lawyers twisted it all around, saying that by loading his own ammo......his goal was to make some "extra deadly" ammo......rediculous! But sti the reason I only carry factory loaded ammunition. Lawyers will make the SAME exact argument ANYWAYS, that you cherry picked the deadliest flavor of the month commercially loaded bullet so it would maim and kill their client with sharp petals that peel back and are bonded to the expanded mushroom hollow point, instead of picking a more humane bullet to merely wound them. Lawyers get paid to say all kinds of $tuff.
 
Originally Posted By: DiRTY DOGLawyers will make the SAME exact argument ANYWAYS, that you cherry picked the deadliest flavor of the month commercially loaded bullet so it would maim and kill their client with sharp petals that peel back and are bonded to the expanded mushroom hollow point, instead of picking a more humane bullet to merely wound them.

If what these attorneys allegedly say in court bothers you, simply call and ask your local police department what they use. If this type of thing ever came up in court, (which it won't), Simply say you chose that ammo because it's what your local police department uses. If it's good enough for them, with all of their vast experience, I thought it would be good enough for me. End of story. That's one of the reasons I use Federal BPLE. It still is used by many law enforcement agencies across the country, and has been for years. In fact it has one of the longest law enforcement resumes out there.

And forget about the handload nonsense. That's been floating around the Internet for years. I have yet to see evidence of one single case, where a self defense shooter went to jail based on the fact his weapon had handloaded ammunition in it. It's just more Internet crap.
 
Originally Posted By: BowhuntOriginally Posted By: GCWould you mind citing a reliable source for those so many horror stories of pass through striking innocents?

I will try when I get some time. I didn't save any of them. I just read quite a few of them while preparing to be a responsible every day carrier. I could be mistaken cause it's been a while since I read the last one. The gist is that there was a robery or similar crime at gunpoint. Think it was Minnesota. An armed citizen shot the criminal through the head and stopped the crime. Sadly a woman was struck by the bullet after it passed through the criminal and she later died. Citizen ended up being charged and going to jail. Doesn't matter if it's several instances or 1. It is our responsibility to do everything in our power to prevent something like that. I've heard some crazy stuff! One story was about a guy that went to prison after a defensive shooting because he was carrying handloads. Lawyers twisted it all around, saying that by loading his own ammo......his goal was to make some "extra deadly" ammo......rediculous! But sti the reason I only carry factory loaded ammunition.

Friend... I'm afraid you're just passing on the same old tired Internet hyperbole as if it were the true word even though nobody ever seems to be able to document with credible sources. Even the way you pass along those tales, "many cases" ect. but when pressed it spins to "doesn't matter if it's several cases or one." It does matter and that's not the way it was originally presented. I believe you have good intentions and you have a point about being smart and safe, however I also believe we should make the point with facts not "I heard" stories. The anti's whip the media and ignorant public into a frenzy with the same method of story telling. Fact checkers come later and the facts get lost in the original BS. Truth and facts, not emotion, is our best defense against the anti's and their unsubstantiated "stories." I think it does matter...
 
Originally Posted By: billtHST is most definitely the, "Flavor Of The Week". It amazing how we survived so long without it.
rolleyes.gif


Since 2002... Because we're fact checking.
smile.gif
 
Originally Posted By: GCOriginally Posted By: BowhuntOriginally Posted By: GCWould you mind citing a reliable source for those so many horror stories of pass through striking innocents?

I will try when I get some time. I didn't save any of them. I just read quite a few of them while preparing to be a responsible every day carrier. I could be mistaken cause it's been a while since I read the last one. The gist is that there was a robery or similar crime at gunpoint. Think it was Minnesota. An armed citizen shot the criminal through the head and stopped the crime. Sadly a woman was struck by the bullet after it passed through the criminal and she later died. Citizen ended up being charged and going to jail. Doesn't matter if it's several instances or 1. It is our responsibility to do everything in our power to prevent something like that. I've heard some crazy stuff! One story was about a guy that went to prison after a defensive shooting because he was carrying handloads. Lawyers twisted it all around, saying that by loading his own ammo......his goal was to make some "extra deadly" ammo......rediculous! But sti the reason I only carry factory loaded ammunition.

Friend... I'm afraid you're just passing on the same old tired Internet hyperbole as if it were the true word even though nobody ever seems to be able to document with credible sources. Even the way you pass along those tales, "many cases" ect. but when pressed it spins to "doesn't matter if it's several cases or one." It does matter and that's not the way it was originally presented. I believe you have good intentions and you have a point about being smart and safe, however I also believe we should make the point with facts not "I heard" stories. The anti's whip the media and ignorant public into a frenzy with the same method of story telling. Fact checkers come later and the facts get lost in the original BS. Truth and facts, not emotion, is our best defense against the anti's and their unsubstantiated "stories." I think it does matter...

The interweb has proven to be a hot bed of myths and legends. A little research can prove or disprove just about everything out there. Anytime I see stories like these I will look up the actual court documents. Transcripts, evidence, etc and use those to try and wade through the interweb BS. Many times there are extenuating circumstances that lead to a certain conclusion of a case. Yes, there will be claims made in cases about the guns used or ammunition but rarely are those claims the reason that a case came to it's final conclusion. In the Harold Fish case, where he used a 10mm pistol to stop a charging man, Harold Fish was initially found guilty. The caliber and type of ammunition were brought up in court and the media claimed that this was why Fish was found guilty. They claimed that he had use a caliber "not in use by law enforcement."

In fact Fish was found guilty for several reasons. First AZ state law placed the burden on the defendant to prove that he needed to use deadly force. Second, the fact that the victim was actually armed was suppressed during testimony. Then testimony about the mental health of the victim was suppressed during testimony yet witnesses were allowed to testify about him being a kind and nice person. The jury also discussed information during deliberations that was not included in the original testimony. They introduced information into the case and considered it during deliberations.

All of these were grounds for a reversal of the verdict on appeal. The County Prosecutor decided to not retry the case and Mr. Fish went free. Yet the interweb continues to propagate the misinformation that Mr. Fish was convicted because of his choice of caliber and ammunition. Yet the FBI had used the 10mm and with hollow point bullets. So his choice of caliber and bullet type should have been a non-issue. But it still comes up in discussions today.

Let the interweb stories drive your search for facts and the truth.
 
Originally Posted By: billtHST is most definitely the, "Flavor Of The Week". It amazing how we survived so long without it.
rolleyes.gif


Hardly. Check out some ballistics gel tests with HST. It's one of the most proven rounds available and at only $20/50 round box for 9mm (compared to $20+/20rd box for other brands). I don't want my self defense rounds fragmenting either.
 
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Originally Posted By: roky0702I don't want my self defense rounds fragmenting either.

And I don't want mine over penetrating. 9BPLE is a proven performer, and has been for years. Many law enforcement agencies still use it because of that fact. The round does what it's supposed to do, and does it well. There is nothing wrong with the performance of this ammunition.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W9iiaXoRaRY&t=337s
 
Originally Posted By: roky0702Check out some ballistics gel tests with HST.

Here ya' go. This is the exact same test with HST. You be the judge. Which would you rather be hit with? Both rounds penetrated within 3/4" of each other. The 9BPLE created a much more devastating wound channel under the exact same conditions.

 
Sadly the gel tests are the best simulator that we have to go on until it is really "go" time. There are a lot of variables to factor in. Just like hunting coyotes, you can put the same caliber out of the same gun in the same spot on two different coyotes and get totally different results.

That's why people need to be ready to shoot, assess, and send a follow up if the first didn't get it done. That takes practice. I think sometimes that too many shooters rely 100% on caliber and ammunition and are not practiced at making assessments and follow up shots quickly enough. Much like some new coyote hunters. Bang! Flop! Run! WHAT?? Bang, Bang, Bang, bye bye coyote.

The results can be far worse when your life is on the line. A top tier ammunition manufacturer with as much data as they can get doing as many tests as they can is what I would go with, but still, be ready for the follow up.
 
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