The no B.S. how accurate is you AR 15 thread.
- Thread starter varminter .223
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Originally Posted By: GLShooterOriginally Posted By: BoomstickWorking on a load for my build. Right now it's at .5, maybe a little less with 69, 77, and 80gr SMKs. That'll be nice when one of those are out of stock at my LGS. Just load another weight, a slight adjustment in the POI and good to go and keep the .5 moa. Couldn't be happier.
That's a good idea. Ask the guys that shot Hornaday match bullets exclusively. They got caught with their pants down when their special bullet was put on hold during the panic.
Greg
I just purchased what was available and tried 'em out. That's half the fun, especially in a cheap cartridge. Glad it likes the SMK as much as the TMK. I'd hate to spend TMK prices for a 223 for steel and paper on an AR. I'll have to load all three again and shoot them back to back and see what wins. Side note...anyone who shoots the SMKs, do you get 100 or 101, or 50 or 51 in your boxes? 2 out of the last three boxes of SMKs I've purchased each had an extra bullet. Lucky I guess.
That's a good idea. Ask the guys that shot Hornaday match bullets exclusively. They got caught with their pants down when their special bullet was put on hold during the panic.
Greg
I just purchased what was available and tried 'em out. That's half the fun, especially in a cheap cartridge. Glad it likes the SMK as much as the TMK. I'd hate to spend TMK prices for a 223 for steel and paper on an AR. I'll have to load all three again and shoot them back to back and see what wins. Side note...anyone who shoots the SMKs, do you get 100 or 101, or 50 or 51 in your boxes? 2 out of the last three boxes of SMKs I've purchased each had an extra bullet. Lucky I guess.
Originally Posted By: DiRTY DOGLots of talk but there's not many targets posted here...
This group was out of a 16in 6.5Grendel at 400 yards:
19756732_1814915648747914_8381668159719500221_n by Jason Mosler, on Flickr
This one was from a 20in 6.5Grendel
Grendel Nikon Group by Jason Mosler, on Flickr
This was from a 20in Grendel in 15-20mph winds
18in 204
DSC02390 by Jason Mosler, on Flickr
53gr .223
260419_1614942402078574_7419926006211621711_n by Jason Mosler, on Flickr
55gr .223
11391515_1516929011879914_4361107173617613758_n by Jason Mosler, on Flickr
585 yards with the .308
12507643_1593586307547517_211906842014851465_n by Jason Mosler, on Flickr
1160 yards, 18in .223, 77gr BTHP, 622 inches of holdover,
11822694_1548194855419996_4301127823582929319_n by Jason Mosler, on Flickr
They can group fine. But like anything it takes practice.
This group was out of a 16in 6.5Grendel at 400 yards:
19756732_1814915648747914_8381668159719500221_n by Jason Mosler, on FlickrThis one was from a 20in 6.5Grendel
Grendel Nikon Group by Jason Mosler, on FlickrThis was from a 20in Grendel in 15-20mph winds
18in 204
DSC02390 by Jason Mosler, on Flickr53gr .223
260419_1614942402078574_7419926006211621711_n by Jason Mosler, on Flickr55gr .223
11391515_1516929011879914_4361107173617613758_n by Jason Mosler, on Flickr585 yards with the .308
12507643_1593586307547517_211906842014851465_n by Jason Mosler, on Flickr1160 yards, 18in .223, 77gr BTHP, 622 inches of holdover,
11822694_1548194855419996_4301127823582929319_n by Jason Mosler, on FlickrThey can group fine. But like anything it takes practice.
Some of the clients that we build for are top notch hand loaders.
This group was shot from one of our 20in stainless 308's, through a YHM-QD Titanium suppressor. This was a hand load that he worked up to really see just how accurate we could get the rifle to shoot. The flier came from a round that had compressed when it tried to load. We try to build the rifles to shoot well with factory ammunition, but it sure is neat to see just what guys can tweak out of it with the right hand load.
2017030895133056 by Jason Mosler, on Flickr
This group was shot from one of our 20in stainless 308's, through a YHM-QD Titanium suppressor. This was a hand load that he worked up to really see just how accurate we could get the rifle to shoot. The flier came from a round that had compressed when it tried to load. We try to build the rifles to shoot well with factory ammunition, but it sure is neat to see just what guys can tweak out of it with the right hand load.
2017030895133056 by Jason Mosler, on FlickrOriginally Posted By: SnowmanMoOriginally Posted By: GLShooterOriginally Posted By: SnowmanMoWe all have our good days, right? Some days I think that I only hit the ground because of gravity.
Yep. Sometimes I flinch just right. Other days not so much..lol
Greg
So true Greg, so true..LOL!!
I was shipped a 308 on a chassis done with a BAT action and a BHW barrel. The rifle had made the rounds of various people, last trial was by Weatherby who shipped it to me. No pistol grip and no thread protector. (I never could find out what that was all about)
I took five boxes of factory match ammunition and one random handload that I just pulled from an old load I'd shot maybe 15 years ago. The five group factory agg was right on 0.398 with the worst going 0.460. The handload falling down to 0.450 was impressive to me with no load development.
Sometimes a rifle just wants to shot. I did these on a rickety shooting bench out in the desert just like you guys probably do. Looking over your examples I will tip my hat to your expertise in building them. No grass growing under your feet.
Greg
Yep. Sometimes I flinch just right. Other days not so much..lol
Greg
So true Greg, so true..LOL!!
I was shipped a 308 on a chassis done with a BAT action and a BHW barrel. The rifle had made the rounds of various people, last trial was by Weatherby who shipped it to me. No pistol grip and no thread protector. (I never could find out what that was all about)
I took five boxes of factory match ammunition and one random handload that I just pulled from an old load I'd shot maybe 15 years ago. The five group factory agg was right on 0.398 with the worst going 0.460. The handload falling down to 0.450 was impressive to me with no load development.
Sometimes a rifle just wants to shot. I did these on a rickety shooting bench out in the desert just like you guys probably do. Looking over your examples I will tip my hat to your expertise in building them. No grass growing under your feet.
Greg
Greg,
You are so right. Some builds just seem to want to run.
We try to shoot them the way that we will use them in the field.
We are just trying to bring the lessons that we have learned over the years to our builds. I know that we are working with a tried and true design and that anyone with even a little bit of mechanical aptitude and internet access can learn to build. We just hope that we can help folks spend their money wisely and can get the best performance out of their rifles and their own skills. Trying to give back to our sport in any way that we can, much like you do.
While I know that a great gun will not make a bad shooter good. A good gun can help a good shooter become great.
You are so right. Some builds just seem to want to run.
We try to shoot them the way that we will use them in the field.
We are just trying to bring the lessons that we have learned over the years to our builds. I know that we are working with a tried and true design and that anyone with even a little bit of mechanical aptitude and internet access can learn to build. We just hope that we can help folks spend their money wisely and can get the best performance out of their rifles and their own skills. Trying to give back to our sport in any way that we can, much like you do.
While I know that a great gun will not make a bad shooter good. A good gun can help a good shooter become great.
My 26" Hart 9T .223 AI shoots .5-.75ish with most loads I put down it. Working on the 73 ELD-M for long-range coyotes this year, and hoping it'll work good. This last year it was the great 69 TMK, which is the best all-around bullet I've ever shot out of this rig from point blank to ~500 yds. After I shoot a 4-shot accurate group out of my rigs at 100, I usually go straight to longer ranges. If I can net MOA or less at 425 yds. for 3-5 shots (the longest steel tgt. at our range), i'll stick with that for hunting.
Originally Posted By: dozer_xjI hear he tightened up the loose nut behind the stock (holding the hand guard down tighter) and got his fliers under control.
LOL!! So many times the culprit seems to be staring right back at you in the mirror, we just hate to admit it.
LOL!! So many times the culprit seems to be staring right back at you in the mirror, we just hate to admit it.
varminter .223
Well-known member
I wanted to verify all if this before posting my results. I haven't had a chance to shoot since initially discovering this and only verified it with 3 5 shot groups. I think my type s dies might still clean up some of my groups spread and flyers though. I don't believe actually holding the forearm down is helping but rather a much tighter grip on the pistol grip. I think the slower AR lock time of the hammer having to strike from a lower hitting the firing pin in an upper which is losing fitting in relationship to said lower is the culprit of AR group inconsistencies. I think this movement is what I thought I was seeing and thinking was my reticle shift. If I can see the reticle move on target upon hammerfall I am convinced that this movement is occuring prior to the bullet leaving the muzzle. I think guys need to look into this instead of calling their rifle good enough and minute of coyote. I am not to proud to say some of my group shift and flyer is me. As a matter of fact I will be thrilled to report that I was the problem. That will be a cheap fix and probably something that I can share to help a lot of others guys out. Minute of coyote imo is like saying I have a problem but I give up. This theory make sense to me since I don't tend to have this issue with varmint contour bolt guns with faster lock times or really bolt guns in general. If I recall free recoiling produced hots about 1" or so right and a hair lower than groups with the rifle tightly held. I guess in a sense the issue isn't so much the shooter but eh results of recoil effecting poi. I would guess that bench rest shooter don't use a death grip but probably don't use cheap uppers either. I guess it is kind of a tolerance stack type of thing.
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wind plays more havoc with groups at 100 yards than you could ever believe. A simple wind flag will work wonders with improving your confidence in your loads
1/4" of steel rod that is 36-42" long
bicycle spoke
1/2" red yarn that is 24" long
this is one of the most effective wind flags that I have ever used.
1/4" of steel rod that is 36-42" long
bicycle spoke
1/2" red yarn that is 24" long
this is one of the most effective wind flags that I have ever used.
Went to the range and shot 3 at 100 yds. I only had 8 handloads and wanted to keep 5 for hunting, so 3 it was. The group was 9/16" CTC. That from a standard .223 Frankengun-built with a Remington R15 takeoff barrel, on a Cav Arms poly lower, Clark's carbon fiber float tube, and Timney 3# skeleton trigger.
I think one thing to remember is that the majority of people on the internet are full of [beeep].
I know of guys on this forum that lie about group sizes, number of coyotes killed, distance of kills, etc...
In all my days at the public shooting range, I NEVER saw anyone shoot a sub-moa group! There was always an excuse for the group being bigger than promised. Some can't measure an inch with any tools. I am sure there are plenty of excellent shooters on this forum, but in real life excellent shooters are rare.
I know of guys on this forum that lie about group sizes, number of coyotes killed, distance of kills, etc...
In all my days at the public shooting range, I NEVER saw anyone shoot a sub-moa group! There was always an excuse for the group being bigger than promised. Some can't measure an inch with any tools. I am sure there are plenty of excellent shooters on this forum, but in real life excellent shooters are rare.
Brad Phillips
Active member
In the real world "public range" there is some crazy stuff to be seen for sure. I have spent some time doing clean up at a public range about three miles from my house. Lots of genuine head shake type situations.
At the same time, I have witnessed some guys who shoot real well, generally older guys who are retired and shoot during the week when no one is around.
And don't take "older" the wrong way, I fit right in....
At the same time, I have witnessed some guys who shoot real well, generally older guys who are retired and shoot during the week when no one is around.
And don't take "older" the wrong way, I fit right in....