Who's been checked by authorities while packing a can?

Originally Posted By: Jim ByersI wasn't implying no stamp.. just build your own....

Yes, make sure you do the proper paperwork ie. Form 1, and make sure it's approved, before you start building anything... You'll need all the specs of your can to put on the form 1 one also, such as model, length, S/N, caliber etc.
 
Yep just do the Form 1 on EFile and when you get your stamp approved and the paperwork in your hand, your ready to start making something.
Same with SBR's. Just got mine Form 1 stamp back after 11 months.
The time it takes for your paperwork to get back is a good time to Study up on different baffle designs and materials.
 
I've only been checked in the field while hunting by a game warden one time here in Colo. and that was two seasons ago. Warden didn't ask to see my paper work, only wanted to see my hunting license. Had a chat about calling coyotes, and then he was on his way.
 
Couple points. First. No I've never been checked by a game warden in the field and asked about a suppressor. As a career LEO (22 years) and game warden for a stint, we don't care if a guy is using a suppressor. NFA is a silly function and even more so for SBR's and suppressors. We mostly all like guns, suppressors and all the tools of the trades we protect, so showing them to us (safely...!!!) is recommended. You make a new hunting buddy. Pretty easily that way too.

Second: I cant speak for all states of course, but in KS, OK, TX and NE, there are state laws legalizing suppressor, SBR, SBS and the likes. But, it requires the person to be in compliance with all applicable NFA federal statutes. I believe that all states that do so will have similar language in their law. So when I hear someone say that only an ATF agent may request your stamps, its wrong. Remember local LEO's have the ability to file charges in municipal, district (state) and federal courts. Different processes, but it can be and is regularly done.

If you are legal and in compliance you may eventually win in court, but after a legal battle of some sort and a [beeep] of a lot of hassle all because you refused to show a LEO paperwork proving your compliance. You cant be too upset with the LEO either as all you had to do was show him the paperwork. If they don't know what the [beeep] they are looking at, and most won't, help and educate them so it will be easier for all parties going forward. As they become more popular and the legalization continues to expand, there are bound to be more incidents with sportsman and LEO having to deal with the compliance of said devices.

Think of it the same as a drivers license. When driving, you have to have a drivers license in your possession. You may have a license, but if its not in your possession, it is still illegal. Same applies with the NFA items, you have to have your paperwork. Any of us that own these addicting products know all too well what we are supposed to do. They are too expensive and full of hassle to get, to risk losing them.

The charges you may have levied against you for not proving, or being in, compliance can range from local, district and federal in all aforementioned states. You may catch an interference/obstruction charge for not just showing the paperwork as well.

As they say, " You may beat the rap, but you can't beat the ride." So be careful and use your head. You'll be fine.

Oh, and you can have a form 1 can built by a buddy in his machine shop. You need to have an approved stamp and you MUST be there with him throughout the process. No extra parts either. Thats "constructive" intent according to the ATF and US Attorney...!! Make sure the are destroyed.

Carry on folks. Have a happy and safe holiday and summer...!!!
 
Originally Posted By: Swift516 Same applies with the NFA items, you have to have your paperwork.
Would you mind quoting your source for this. And or a link to such will be sufficient. Thank you
 
I show only if i have to. I have had LEO's illegally check serial numbers on regular long guns. They wrote them down, I tolerated it at the time. But will push them on their probable cause for checking my serial numbers.
 
Wouldn't a LEO have to have more than just the possession of a can to detain or arrest you until at could be there to verify? I have never been asked and would absolutely show any Leo my paperwork but just to be clear I would think that the LEO checking you would have to have reasonable suspicion that you DON'T have the correct paperwork to make an arrest/detain you.
 
Originally Posted By: songdogI've only been checked in the field while hunting by a game warden one time here in Colo. and that was two seasons ago. Warden didn't ask to see my paper work, only wanted to see my hunting license. Had a chat about calling coyotes, and then he was on his way.


I would have thrown your azz in the back of my cruiser, roughed you up a bit and then sent you down the river!!!!


Hahahahahahahahahaaaaaaaaaaaa
 
Originally Posted By: Catdog1Originally Posted By: Swift516 Same applies with the NFA items, you have to have your paperwork.
Would you mind quoting your source for this. And or a link to such will be sufficient. Thank you

Sure.

Federal law (26 U.S.C. § 5841(e)) reference to the proof of registration is as follows:

https://www.atf.gov/firearms/docs/atf-national-firearms-act-handbook-appendix/download

State laws reference being in compliance with NFA law will be represented in state statute.
 
Originally Posted By: reaper4Wouldn't a LEO have to have more than just the possession of a can to detain or arrest you until at could be there to verify? I have never been asked and would absolutely show any Leo my paperwork but just to be clear I would think that the LEO checking you would have to have reasonable suspicion that you DON'T have the correct paperwork to make an arrest/detain you.

Not really. Some common sense goes a long way of course, but the human race is pretty guilty of not exercising that pretty regularly. Cops are people too...!! The law states to be in compliance with the NFA, whether it be local, state or federal LEO your dealing with, if you cant provide the proof you could be detained or arrested as your device may be seized. So not having it is pretty clear proof that you in violation of at least not having proof at the minimum.

By no means am I a lawyer and even if I was it is ALL debatable, Im just trying to provide a point not often given by a LEO on a topic that is beaten to death by people with questions.
 
Originally Posted By: Swift516Originally Posted By: Catdog1Originally Posted By: Swift516 Same applies with the NFA items, you have to have your paperwork.
Would you mind quoting your source for this. And or a link to such will be sufficient. Thank you

Sure.

Federal law (26 U.S.C. § 5841(e)) reference to the proof of registration is as follows:

https://www.atf.gov/firearms/docs/atf-national-firearms-act-handbook-appendix/download

State laws reference being in compliance with NFA law will be represented in state statute. i found where you must show it to an ATF agent but i dont see anything concerning a sheriff, city, or state officer.
 
I fully understand that this has been beaten to death and like I said would have zero problem showing my paperwork to another LEO but, if the nfa states that I have to show it to an nfa agent and my state laws don't require a person to show it to a state LEO, in my eyes an arrest would be unwarranted. I will admit I don't know everything pertaining to the nfa law as its not something I deal with alot.
 
Originally Posted By: reaper4I fully understand that this has been beaten to death and like I said would have zero problem showing my paperwork to another LEO but, if the nfa states that I have to show it to an nfa agent and my state laws don't require a person to show it to a state LEO, in my eyes an arrest would be unwarranted. I will admit I don't know everything pertaining to the nfa law as its not something I deal with alot. I agree and on my particular State's side I'm having trouble finding anything concerning suppressors other than they are legal for hunting
 
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I had mine folded in half and laminated it is the sixe of a credit card and I carry it in my wallet for peace of mind but have not been checked. at that size you can read all the numbers good.I carry another in my shooting bag that is larger it goes where my rifles go but stays in the truck.
 
I think it is best to stick a copy in the Butte stock hole or in my case the Grip Container of your Rifle then you can forget about it.
 
I carry mine in the stock pack that is on all my rifles. It is too easy to be in compliance. Had the office supply shrink and laminate them multiple times. They are small but legible.

As to the question regarding providing to LEO no problem. I am way to old for a ride to town in a cruiser just to prove i was right.
H
 
Originally Posted By: Catdog1Originally Posted By: Swift516Originally Posted By: Catdog1Originally Posted By: Swift516 Same applies with the NFA items, you have to have your paperwork.
Would you mind quoting your source for this. And or a link to such will be sufficient. Thank you

Sure.

Federal law (26 U.S.C. § 5841(e)) reference to the proof of registration is as follows:

https://www.atf.gov/firearms/docs/atf-national-firearms-act-handbook-appendix/download

State laws reference being in compliance with NFA law will be represented in state statute. i found where you must show it to an ATF agent but i dont see anything concerning a sheriff, city, or state officer.

i think this is a classic case of "just because you can, doesnt always mean you should"

i mean really, is it worth your time being detained while they get an ATF (or IRS) agent on site (or to the jail) to show them (the ATF/IRS agent) your stamp and prove you're legit? Is it worth getting your equipment temporarily confiscated and possibly hiring a lawyer to get it back?

because they can do things like that no problem if they want to make your life difficult for making their life difficult.

i'm not suggesting either action if taken by an officer is right, but its well within the realm of real world possibility you may end up dealing with, just because you want to make a point.



i look at it this way....you're gonna have to end up showing the stamp to someone at some point anyway. might as well show them the stamp, and any associated trust paperwork if necessary, and wave goodbye as they leave.

i'd rather go back to what i was doing vs fighting over what is essentially a nothignburger.

"sorry to waste your time officer, have a great day, good luck catching the bad guys"


i guess if you're feeling spiteful, you can always give them the finger as they're driving away *shrug*
 
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