Federal 9 MM BPLE Self Defense Ammo

billt

New member
The case of Federal BPLE 9 MM arrived yesterday. Beautiful ammo! I think this is about the best self defense 9 MM available. Especially for the price. ($303.00 delivered / $15.15 @ box of 50). I think I'll swing by Harbor Freight this morning, and pick up a couple of new .50 Cal. metal ammo cans for it.

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Glad you like it. That's old school technology... but I wouldn't want to get shot with it. Might be hard on the gun?
 
Not to burst your bubble, but there's plenty of better self defense hollow points on the market. It'll definitely work don't get me wrong and for the price it's nice. I just prefer Federal 147gr HST for $20/50rds. Have fun shooting it though.
 
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Originally Posted By: GCMight be hard on the gun?

Originally Posted By: Rock KnockerI would pick up some heavier duty recoil springs for the guns I planned on shooting much of that through.

As a longtime shooter and reloader, I've been getting more suspicious over SAAMI's pressure "standards" for a long time now. Along with all of this "+P" and "+P+" ratings you see everywhere. The fact is ammunition is getting weaker across the board, and has been for years. I have long suspected that SAAMI pressure "standards" have been lowered..... A LOT. So I decided to prove it to myself, and did some research.

The "warning" on this box of current production Gold Dots states, they are.... "22% Higher Than SAAMI Standards"..... OK, Which standards? Established when? This is an ever changing saga.

I dragged out some of my old Speer manuals, and found out SAAMI and the industry introduced "+P" ammo ratings as of 1975. At that time .38 Special standard pressure was 18,900 CUP. "+P" was 22,400 CUP. As of 1998 it was reduced to 17,000 PSI and 20,000 PSI. As of today, (some 19 years later), it is 17,000 PSI & 18,500 PSI. This is continually evolving in a lower direction.

So if you do the math, "+P" for .38 Special was 22,400 in 1975 when SAAMI first introduced the standard. Today "+P" is now 18,500. That is a whopping 3,900 PSI, or over 17% LOWER. Yeah, I get it that CUP doesn't correlate exactly into PSI. But you see where all of this is going. Down... WAY DOWN. I'm betting if you do a similar cross comparison with 9 MM, you'll most likely come up with similar percentage differences.

This isn't unique to just .38 Special. So..... "22% over SAAMI Spec.", today really isn't. Especially if you subtract the 17% they've lowered their "standard" since they created it back in 1975. And the real kicker is, the current SAAMI "+P" rating for .38 Special, is actually 400 PSI LOWER, than the .38 Special standard rating was in 1975. That's insane. What's changed to cause this besides an off the rails legal system?

What the [beeep] good is an industry "standard", if they're going to keep changing it? This is ridiculous. It's gotten to the point that "+P" along with all of this "+P+" nonsense is becoming somewhat of a joke. These "standards" hardly remain "standard" for very long. And when they change, they go lower... NEVER higher. Last I checked, my guns haven't weakened with age. Only SAAMI's "standards". And it seems as the legal community strengthens, SAAMI further weakens. This all has nothing to do with chamber pressure. Instead it's all being regulated by legal pressure. And again, the last time I checked, lawyers didn't know jack [beeep] about maximum chamber pressures in firearms. Just how to sue the manufacturers who make them.

So the bottom line is when you see these big red "warning" labels plastered all over most of this high performance ammunition that's for sale out there, take all of it with a grain of salt. Because most all of it is weaker than the non "+P" stuff they were selling just 30 years ago.

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Originally Posted By: GCSome of the data in those old Speer manuals is pretty hair raising.

I'm still loading it in several calibers in both rifles and pistols. Never had a single pressure related issue.
 
Originally Posted By: billtOriginally Posted By: GCMight be hard on the gun?

Originally Posted By: Rock KnockerI would pick up some heavier duty recoil springs for the guns I planned on shooting much of that through.

As a longtime shooter and reloader, I've been getting more suspicious over SAAMI's pressure "standards" for a long time now. Along with all of this "+P" and "+P+" ratings you see everywhere. The fact is ammunition is getting weaker across the board, and has been for years. I have long suspected that SAAMI pressure "standards" have been lowered..... A LOT. So I decided to prove it to myself, and did some research.

The "warning" on this box of current production Gold Dots states, they are.... "22% Higher Than SAAMI Standards"..... OK, Which standards? Established when? This is an ever changing saga.

I dragged out some of my old Speer manuals, and found out SAAMI and the industry introduced "+P" ammo ratings as of 1975. At that time .38 Special standard pressure was 18,900 CUP. "+P" was 22,400 CUP. As of 1998 it was reduced to 17,000 PSI and 20,000 PSI. As of today, (some 19 years later), it is 17,000 PSI & 18,500 PSI. This is continually evolving in a lower direction.

So if you do the math, "+P" for .38 Special was 22,400 in 1975 when SAAMI first introduced the standard. Today "+P" is now 18,500. That is a whopping 3,900 PSI, or over 17% LOWER. Yeah, I get it that CUP doesn't correlate exactly into PSI. But you see where all of this is going. Down... WAY DOWN. I'm betting if you do a similar cross comparison with 9 MM, you'll most likely come up with similar percentage differences.

This isn't unique to just .38 Special. So..... "22% over SAAMI Spec.", today really isn't. Especially if you subtract the 17% they've lowered their "standard" since they created it back in 1975. And the real kicker is, the current SAAMI "+P" rating for .38 Special, is actually 400 PSI LOWER, than the .38 Special standard rating was in 1975. That's insane. What's changed to cause this besides an off the rails legal system?

What the [beeep] good is an industry "standard", if they're going to keep changing it? This is ridiculous. It's gotten to the point that "+P" along with all of this "+P+" nonsense is becoming somewhat of a joke. These "standards" hardly remain "standard" for very long. And when they change, they go lower... NEVER higher. Last I checked, my guns haven't weakened with age. Only SAAMI's "standards". And it seems as the legal community strengthens, SAAMI further weakens. This all has nothing to do with chamber pressure. Instead it's all being regulated by legal pressure. And again, the last time I checked, lawyers didn't know jack [beeep] about maximum chamber pressures in firearms. Just how to sue the manufacturers who make them.

So the bottom line is when you see these big red "warning" labels plastered all over most of this high performance ammunition that's for sale out there, take all of it with a grain of salt. Because most all of it is weaker than the non "+P" stuff they were selling just 30 years ago.

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AMEN!
 
That is great ammo without a doubt. My personal choice is Civil Defense by Liberty ammunition. A 50 grain non lead hollow point at 2000 fps. Check them out. Quite pricey but a small price to pay considering their purpose. Only buy enough to carry and to verify accuracy and performance. Then enough to switch out carry rounds every 6 months. I just shoot fmj stuff for training and other high volume shooting.
 
Originally Posted By: GCShot placement is King, penetration is Queen... all else is gravy.

AMEN!! A miss is a miss no matter what caliber.

Recently there has been a resurgence of some "old school" bullets that are making a comeback and are being reintroduced. I have used the Hornady SST's in 308 and 6.5 Grendel for quite a while, but with Hornady's Whitetail series of ammunition, sporting a 150gr SP which is a tried and true design, I found them to be every bit as devastating as the SST and a heck of a lot more accurate.

I have tried a variety of different ammunitions over the years both in hunting and in personal protection. I am currently carrying Golden Sabers in my handguns. The ballistic tests still show that the Golden Saber is an effective bullet design, every bit as good as the newer designs.

You just can't improve on perfection, but I am glad to see manufacturers still trying.
 
If you can deliver the rounds on target in most any condition, having the "Bullet Of The Month" in your chamber isn't going to matter much.
 
Originally Posted By: billtIf you can deliver the rounds on target in most any condition, having the "Bullet Of The Month" in your chamber isn't going to matter much.

I know what you are saying to a point, but mostly this is not true. A good personal defense round needs to pentrate well and expend all of its energy while doing so. Too mny horror stories about innocents being struck and sometimes killed by a bullet that has already passed through the deadly threat.
 
Would you mind citing a reliable source for those so many horror stories of pass through striking innocents?
 
Originally Posted By: GCWould you mind citing a reliable source for those so many horror stories of pass through striking innocents?

Yes, I would also like to see any evidence showing that is such a common occurrence. I think more than anything, it is one of those "Internet facts" that gets constantly regurgitated. Mostly without merit. And it certainly doesn't occur with Federal 9BPLE. If you watch any videos showing testing of that round, it fragments violently, delivering all of it's energy to the target. Not something 2 blocks behind it.
 
Originally Posted By: roky0702Not to burst your bubble, but there's plenty of better self defense hollow points on the market. It'll definitely work don't get me wrong and for the price it's nice. I just prefer Federal 147gr HST for $20/50rds. Have fun shooting it though.

X2
 
Originally Posted By: billtHST is most definitely the, "Flavor Of The Week". It amazing how we survived so long without it.
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So I guess you're packing a .36 caliber cap and ball Colt black powder revolver? Using your logic there's no reason to advance technology beyond those lead round balls.
 
Originally Posted By: billtOriginally Posted By: GCWould you mind citing a reliable source for those so many horror stories of pass through striking innocents?

Yes, I would also like to see any evidence showing that is such a common occurrence. I think more than anything, it is one of those "Internet facts" that gets constantly regurgitated. Mostly without merit. And it certainly doesn't occur with Federal 9BPLE. If you watch any videos showing testing of that round, it fragments violently, delivering all of it's energy to the target. Not something 2 blocks behind it.

I concur. I have done research on this topic before and was only able to come up with a handful of examples and most of those involved rifles.

Many of us are predator hunters and have seen the effects of various bullet designs on things like coyotes. You need your bullet to stop in the target to expend all of it's energy in the target. The only way it goes through is if it takes energy with it. That doesn't mean that it's got lethal amounts of energy still.

I am not saying that ammo mfg's should stop R&D. But there are a lot of gimmicky rounds out there marketed on fears.
 
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