Scopes that actually hold zero

Just tried the reticle jump phenomenon test on 3 scopes that have held zero for many years, reticle jumped when dry fired.

One of them is on a .223 that I've probably shot 100 sub .200" groups with.

Another is on my 6 WOA that will shoot .300 or better aggregates with 80 gr FB bullets

The last is on a 722 .222 that has won its share of turkey shoots.

You've got another issue.
 
Quote:Who actually has a scope that consistently will hold a good enough zero to be truly .5 moa. Im not talking about 3 shot groups and accidental groups. Anything will do that now and again. I mean true .5 moa or better set ups that will repeat day in and day out. If you have one, what kind is it?.....Since you don't indicate that you are actually having a problem with any specific set up in your original post, I have to assume that this is a rhetorical question...

Based on historical observation, most optics that have sat for any length of time tend to develop a 'set' and when adjustment is necessary, or shooting conditions change, a problem tends to crop up...

I try to, periodically, work the turrets on mine to insure that they move freely and return to 'zero' to identify potential problems...In answer to your posed question, I have several optics that have caused me no problem and a few that I would not trust for critical shooting, but would still be reasonably good for fun plinking...

The ones on which I consistently depend are my Leupold, Burros. Haako, and even an old Japanese Tasco...
 
Since I shoot benchrest, a scope is a vital component to a rifle. I've had a scope go bad a couple times. But it takes a good consistent rifle to realize it. There is a guy that makes a "scope checker". One used to be made many years ago, but this fellow has started making new ones. It fits either on a dovetail mount or picitiny rail. You literally mount two scopes on it, sight in both, and see if one shifts hold. It easy to see while shooting from a bench in rests. For a hunting gun, it may be more difficult. Go to accurateshooter and do a search for it.
 
Sightron SIII series of scopes, they are made in Japan. If you have one of them move on you, you've got other problems.

Jim D
 
Originally Posted By: CZ527Just tried the reticle jump phenomenon test on 3 scopes that have held zero for many years, reticle jumped when dry fired.

One of them is on a .223 that I've probably shot 100 sub .200" groups with.

Another is on my 6 WOA that will shoot .300 or better aggregates with 80 gr FB bullets

The last is on a 722 .222 that has won its share of turkey shoots.

You've got another issue.

Crosshairs will jump in 95% of bolt guns when dry fired. That is not an indication of a bad scope.
 
I have had no problems with Leupolds vx3 & up or the Bushnell 6500 elite I currently have on my ar. It will shoot 3/8 or better every day.
 
Originally Posted By: StobOriginally Posted By: CZ527Just tried the reticle jump phenomenon test on 3 scopes that have held zero for many years, reticle jumped when dry fired.

One of them is on a .223 that I've probably shot 100 sub .200" groups with.

Another is on my 6 WOA that will shoot .300 or better aggregates with 80 gr FB bullets

The last is on a 722 .222 that has won its share of turkey shoots.

You've got another issue.

Crosshairs will jump in 95% of bolt guns when dry fired. That is not an indication of a bad scope.

Yea that's the point I was making, not sure if you were clarifying or reinforcing.
 
When I first noticed the shift the first thing I did was to try to hold the upper and lower tight together upon dryfiring. That is a bit tricky to do but yesterday I crammed 2 foam ear plugs under the rear take down pin lug and I could no longer see a jump with the vx i 4-12 that I now have on it. I have had multiple rifles shoot very similar groups when I swapped each scope onto them. The grouping show a pattern that follows along with the scope. Group shifts are what make me think I have an optics issue. Many guys will say screw it, its minute of coyote. Thats not how I think. There is a reason when a bullet doesnt hit within a group and I like to know why and correct the issue. I am not looking for an excuse to blame it on, I am looking for the reason whether it is me or the equipment.
I do find it hard to believe that reticle shift on a hammerfall is normal for a functioning scope.
 
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You shooting an AR? And you are looking for sub .5 groups? You don't have a platform that will discern small scope issues, unless the scope is truly screwed up. I'm not trying to be disrespectful, but to chase small scope issues you need an accurate and consistent rifle shot off good rests.
 
My ARs are capable of 5 shot .5" groups and .750" is pretty common. Point is if I dont have a .5 capable scope it makes no difference how accurate the rifle or ammo is.........right?
 
I would say a scope that has .5" error in it is probably rare, that's a lot. Something would have to fall apart inside and or the reticle breaks loose. The consistency in a rifle doesn't come easy. Factory guns can shoot fairly well, most times, but not all the time. I'm no AR guy, but I assume they would be no different. Find yourself a guy shooting a bench gun, give him a few bucks, and ask him to put your scope on his gun, and try it.
 
I run a Millet 4-16x50mm on my 20in 6.5Grendel. I have shot a .413 group out of it with Factory Hornady ammunition. It has proven to be a very reliable scope that I can run up and down and get back to zero. I shoot it reliably around .500-.875 on most days, IF I haven't had too much coffee.

I have seen issue coming up recently with scopes using muzzle brakes. I had a scope for years that shot with no problem. But when I transferred it over to a rifle with a beefy muzzle brake my reticle let go. Many rifle scopes cannot handle the harsh forward recoil impulse of a large muzzle brake, much like the forward recoil of a springer air rifle.
 
Originally Posted By: StobYou shooting an AR? And you are looking for sub .5 groups? You don't have a platform that will discern small scope issues, unless the scope is truly screwed up. I'm not trying to be disrespectful, but to chase small scope issues you need an accurate and consistent rifle shot off good rests.

I'll never understand this misnomer about AR's. If you have a quality barrel and a good trigger group an AR will shoot great. The whole platform is inherently accurate with the floating bolt head design.
 
Originally Posted By: Captramrod01Originally Posted By: StobYou shooting an AR? And you are looking for sub .5 groups? You don't have a platform that will discern small scope issues, unless the scope is truly screwed up. I'm not trying to be disrespectful, but to chase small scope issues you need an accurate and consistent rifle shot off good rests.

I'll never understand this misnomer about AR's. If you have a quality barrel and a good trigger group an AR will shoot great. The whole platform is inherently accurate with the floating bolt head design.

Several years ago, the IBS opened up their benchrest matches to include an AR class after some wanted to shoot in registered matches. It was a flop. Shooting the same targets that Varmint and Hunter class rifles shoot, the ARs couldn't get it done, and there were no restrictions on scopes. I don't knock an AR for what it is intended to do, but an accuracy rifle it ain't. It takes a very consistent accurate rifle to realize top accuracy, and a good bolt gun is about the only platform that will deliver it.
 
I've been shooting Silhouette for about 20 years. Leupold has been the dominant scope but you see lots of Weaver, Sightron and some old Tasco. I can assure that in this game if a scope isn't repeatable it won't make it. I cannot imagine a scope shifting .5moa and being of any value. In case you aren't familiar with Silhouette I'll describe the course of fire. Chicken at 200M, Pigs at 300M, Turkey at 385M and Rams at 500M. All targets shot offhand 5 shots in 2 1/2 minutes. No support allowed. If your scope doesn't track and hold its adjustments you are dead. Matches are either 40 shots or 60 shots. Doesn't take long to sort out the good from the bad. A .5moa shift at 500M would be a big miss at the rams.
 
Well then don't get a Gamo Scope as they suck! I've had three gamo rifle scopes die on my Gamo IGS air rifle.

And don't buy an EOTech HWS Hollow-graphic Weapon System) gun sight if you want the zero to hold true as their zero shifts by up to 4 MOA with very hot and or very cold temperature shifts. If the temperature shifts a lot then you will have to re-zero the Hollow-graphic Weapon System Sights.

My Nikon Scope and Burris Full Force II scope has held zero pretty well on my Remington Model 660 in 222 caliber. And the Nikon M223 scope works well on my Ambush Firearms AR15 in 5.56 caliber. As long as the latter is placed on the rail properly.

I use a RRA single piece rifle scope base mounted to the Picatinny rail on my AR15. I use scope rings on the 222 an the Burris Scope is on that rifle. I've not shot that rifle in a while though and can't recall how it's mounted on the 222. And I'm too lazy right now to go look at it in the case in the other room. Sorry. I'm suffering from pain in both hips and pain in the left wrist right now and simply don't want to get up out of my chair to go look in the other room. But I'm pretty sure it's in rings that were lapped by the Wheeler Engineering Professional Scope Mounting tools and I use the Wheeler Fatman Torque Wrench or what ever it's called to torque the screws down and added blue Loctite to the threads to set them where they won't back out with vibrations.
 
Originally Posted By: fw707Originally Posted By: varminter .223Who actually has a scope that consistently will hold a good enough zero to be truly .5 moa. Im not talking about 3 shot groups and accidental groups. Anything will do that now and again. I mean true .5 moa or better set ups that will repeat day in and day out. If you have one, what kind is it?


Schmidt & Bender
All day long if I do my part.
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This!!!!!!
 
To answer your original question without all the [beeep].. Most reliable scopes comes with a premium, NF ATACR and NXS, S&B, Tangent Theta, upper end bushnell, Vortex Razor gen2 and AMG, Hensoldt.. You get what you pay for, as far as a hunter friendly option the TT 315M, NF ATACR 4-16 and the Vortex AMG 6-24, S&B ultra short or for a bit cheaper, the Bushnell DMRII are good options...
 
Originally Posted By: StobSince I shoot benchrest, a scope is a vital component to a rifle. I've had a scope go bad a couple times. But it takes a good consistent rifle to realize it. There is a guy that makes a "scope checker". One used to be made many years ago, but this fellow has started making new ones. It fits either on a dovetail mount or picitiny rail. You literally mount two scopes on it, sight in both, and see if one shifts hold. It easy to see while shooting from a bench in rests. For a hunting gun, it may be more difficult. Go to accurateshooter and do a search for it.

THIS!!!!

Not sure if many of you saw the post Alex Wheeler's post (on accurate shooter) of his results with a scope checker a couple months back...??? He saw shift change (at least some) with almost every scope he tested, including NightForce (actually the was only 1 scope that was 100% no shift even after turret spins). He ended up deleting the thread because, as you can imagine, the ruffled feathers it caused.

Using a scope checker, it doesn't matter how well the rifle shoots. You actually don't even have to shoot (you could opt to simulate recoil by throwing it on the ground every time instead). The more difficult (and expensive part) part is getting a GOOD "checker" scope and ring set-up (usually something with a "frozen" reticle that is solidly ring/mount adjustable).

Very few guns (other than some flat-bottom, short-range stuff) shoot well enough to notice the smaller shifts. Now if a scope takes a chit- yeah.

It might surprise many as to how much scopes move...
 
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