Poi shift

V

varminter .223

Well-known member
I shot 3 5 shot groups today of the same load and batch. First 5 under .750". Later that day I shot 5 more with first 3 what would be in the same group as the previous 5. The next 2 land about an inch right and in same hole.
I get 5 more and shoot again. First one hits an inch high over main group, the next couple are back in the original group, then one back an inch high and touching the first one, the last shot is back in original group. It seems 85% of the shots are in a .750 or better group with pairs slipping an inch out but shooting in groups. Any ideas?

Pic coming.
 
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I'am interested to see what people think. Since it's putting groups of bullets together what the experts think, I have a similar issue.
 
Inconsistent hold or position. Inconsistent pressure on the forend (free floated?). Front rest issues, bipod bouncing, loose rest, etc. Changing grip or face position between rounds, groups. If it's not shooter induced by messing with the way the rifle recoils, then it must be mechanical. Bad scope, loose rings/base, bad bedding or reciever fit. Etc.
 
I'm with Dirty Dog, there's a lot of variables that have to be ruled out. My first instinct is ammo. I usually go to a high quality factory load during accuracy issues. I took a client out Friday to zero his scope. Using his Winchester 150gr SP's we were getting some nice groups. He didn't realize that he picked up a box of the Winchester 150gr Deer XP's. The next group was 5 inches high. The box claimed the same velocity. So I shot them. The group tightened up but were still 3 inches high. We went back to the SP's and we were back to zero.

Being a handloader I know there are a lot of variables in reloading. When we load for long range and competitions we sort brass by headstamp, weigh all the bullets, chamfer, clean primer pockets and flash holes, use a powder trickler, etc. You also need to watch the temp coefficient of your powder. Some powders burn faster at higher temps and some lower. I have seen some powders get effected by chamber temp where they are fine cold bore but show extreme pressure signs after that until you let the chamber cool.

Don't get frustrated. It can start getting to you. Start a log, it can help you spot the pattern.
 
Its not parallax as I watch that and its not ammo as I tried weighing every componant and trickling on my 1010 this morning and groups got worse. Some of my most accurate rifles will shoot with little attentiion to ammo detail. It a real puzzler I tell ya. I pay special attention to grip and bag position too. I have no issue shooting .5 groups with rifles that are capable. This bca upper had about .002 slop between receiver and barrel extension but I bedded it. Im starting to question that.
 
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Bedded with what? Is it torqued correctly? Gas tube touching the barrel nut?

How's your neck tension? Any chance your bullets are getting jerked out of their seated position in the case mouth from recoil?

Check your feed ramps, are they good? Sharp? Possibly scraping your bullets on the way into the chamber?
 
Originally Posted By: varminter .223Its not parallax as I watch that and its not ammo as I tried weighing every componant and trickling on my 1010 this morning and groups got worse. Some of my most accurate rifles will shoot with little attentiion to ammo detail. It a real puzzler I tell ya. I pay special attention to grip and bag position too. I have no issue shooting .5 groups with rifles that are capable. This bca upper had about .002 slop between receiver and barrel extension but I bedded it. Im starting to question that. Please dont be offended by this, i mean no harm, just giving my 2 cents. Over the 22 years of handloading and shooting, i have found that when a particular gun does something to this effect and all other details have been paid attention to, it is normally a bad barrel....or a barrel problem. However you want to look at it.

Depending on your particular rifle, that could just be about as good as your going to get.

I guess what im getting at is, it may not necessarily be a POI shift as much as, this is just about the best its going to group.
 
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Neck tension is .002 to .003 depending on bullet manufacturer. Oal is not changing upon the round being chambered. Matrix handguard is only 11 inch on a rifle length system and the gas tube is not touching the barrel nut. The barrel is a bhw 6 x 6.8 9 twist 20 inch.
 
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I have probably 160 rounds through it and it has never shot a good 5 shot group with 58s and a load these barrels are supposed to love. It shot a few 3 shot groups of 70 bts under an inch the first time I shot it but after 74 rounds I cleaned it with only patches and wipeout and it has only shot 1 5 shot group under an inch since. Frustrsting to say the least.
 
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Originally Posted By: varminter .223I have probably 160 rounds through it and it has never shot a good 5 shot group with 58s and a load these barrels are supposed to love. It shot a few 3 shot groups of 70 bts under an inch the first time I shot it but after 74 rounds I cleaned it with only patches and wipeout and it has only shot 1 5 shot group under an inch since. Frustrsting to say the least. wow, i didnt realize all of this. I definately understand your frustration. Only thing i can think of to check is, i recently bought 2 of the Matrix forends from Joe bobs and both of them were cut crooked. One worse then the other. When looking at where the end of the forend met the barrel you could clearly see it was crooked. Upon further inspection i noticed my gas block had about .008" clearence between it and the barrel. Clearly not enough room when it was fired the barrel was vibrating against the forend. Normally BHW barrels shoot lights out...
 
I'm having a hard time following what all you have and have not done. Some info in this thread, more info in The last thread.

I think at this point the only advice I could give would be to go back and do the load work up again and see if you just had a fluke accuracy node the first time around. Other than that I think I would be looking at another bullet or powder choice.
 
Originally Posted By: midwestpredatorI'm having a hard time following what all you have and have not done. Some info in this thread, more info in The last thread.

i agree, up until a few minutes ago, i thought he was shooting a 223. Lol.
 
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I don't know how I missed that the barrel was a 6x6.8, that shoots down that troubleshooting step. Do you have a cartridge type trigger installed? I have seen one with the set screws installed unevenly. It misaligned the hammer and firing pin just enough to make the rifle shoot similarly to what you describe. There are many variables, start somewhere and systematically eliminate them by changing out with known good parts. I would try a different lower, a different scope and mounts and a different shooter. Then look to the ammo or barrel. Just my 2 cents.
 
Wasn't there another member on here recently with a bhw barrel in 6x6.8 that was having similar issues? And he had to get a new barrel from them. Seems it was earlier this year. But I'm not positive. Actually it may have been 2 guys with the same bhw barrel in the 6x6.8 barrel.
 
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