The Evolution of Barrel Cleaning

orkan

orkan

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http://primalrights.com/library/articles/evolution-barrel-cleaning

There are so many different methods, tools, and opinions on rifle barrel cleaning that it would be virtually impossible to even mention them all. Barrel cleaning is quite possibly one of the most argued topics in the precision rifle world. The only thing more impressive than the number of discussions that take place regarding this topic on a daily basis is the list of available cleaning solvents which all claim to be the best product in the world. While conversations regarding barrel cleaning are often divisive and heated, there is one thing that everyone can agree on: Everyone will need to clean their barrel at some point.

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I will try the CLR this weekend.

I have noticed a different regiment is required for various cases. For instance a 223 shooting 26g of powder has one requirement and a 270 shooting 55g of powder needs something else. Then if you go up to a 73-96g of powder, you are in a more serious league on cleaning.

The more powder you shoot and the more bearing surface of the bullet you use has more demanding requirements.

On stubborn or big bore factory rifles, Brushing with the Montana Extreme Copper Cream works very, very well which is the equal of JB compound in my experience, The use of these are considered an extreme.

I have a Hawkeye and Lyman bore scopes, and I like to clean and get done with it, like when you may be shooting p. dogs and chucks in the field.

Pellets sound real good, my first thought is that you have a very gentle bore lap.

One thing that every person should have is a good bore guide that has a bushing on the rod to keep it centered in the bore while cleaning, otherwise the throat can get lapped smooth from 5 to 8 o'clock.
 
Originally Posted By: ackleymanOne thing that every person should have is a good bore guide that has a bushing on the rod to keep it centered in the bore while cleaning, otherwise the throat can get lapped smooth from 5 to 8 o'clock. That's how the 2-piece sinclar rod guides I mentioned in the article work. The rear part fits tightly over the rod, and is removed from the rod guide body, which fits tightly into the chamber. I'm liking them.
 
I'm going to start the argument here. LOL
Being a machinist by training, and having some welding and heat treating experience. I fail to make the connection of a brass rod and brush being an issue with a hardened steel bore, pushed thru by hand.. I think the issue is more or less tied to the amount of shooting you do, the more rounds down the barrel the greater the wear, which is obvious, and wear has not one thing to do with the cleaning equipment or process used.
ban me now mods LMAO
 
Originally Posted By: RahlowI fail to make the connection of a brass rod and brush being an issue with a hardened steel bore, pushed thru by hand..

who uses a brass cleaning rod? never seen one, never knew anybody that used one. do not know of anybody that makes them?
 
Originally Posted By: SlickerThanSnotOriginally Posted By: RahlowI fail to make the connection of a brass rod and brush being an issue with a hardened steel bore, pushed thru by hand..

who uses a brass cleaning rod? never seen one, never knew anybody that used one. do not know of anybody that makes them?

J Dewey Rods makes brass cleaning rods. Never used any of them myself, but I suppose they serve a purpose if a manufacturer such as J Dewey is offering them.
 
Originally Posted By: SlickerThanSnotOriginally Posted By: RahlowI fail to make the connection of a brass rod and brush being an issue with a hardened steel bore, pushed thru by hand..

who uses a brass cleaning rod? never seen one, never knew anybody that used one. do not know of anybody that makes them?

I know several people that use brass rods, they are the kind that you have to screw together.

I have the same mindset as Rahlow, I can't wrap my head around how a brass rod/brush will damage a much harder steel barrel. In a lot of wear applications brass is used as the sacrificial material. I'm sure in those applications the steel sees some wear but not nearly the amount the brass does.

There's also this:
http://www.longrangehunting.com/articles/rifle-crown-1.php

Not sure how accuracy would be effected if the throat/lands looked like that but I think you'd be hard pressed to find one that beat up from brass.

I should throw in a caveat that I use bore guides and coated rods, must be my superstitious side showing. But that doesn't mean I'm not skeptical.
 
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Originally Posted By: RahlowI'm going to start the argument here. LOL
Being a machinist by training, and having some welding and heat treating experience. I fail to make the connection of a brass rod and brush being an issue with a hardened steel bore, pushed thru by hand.. I think the issue is more or less tied to the amount of shooting you do, the more rounds down the barrel the greater the wear, which is obvious, and wear has not one thing to do with the cleaning equipment or process used.
ban me now mods LMAO

You are right and wrong. You are exactly right on the number of rounds fired contributing to the wear, and if you shoot and clean little, obviously you are not going to have cleaning rod wear on the throat. Rods are not brass, they are steel and plastic coated steel, and Tipton are graphite.

Check the coefficient of friction in the machinist's manual:

steel on steel
Plastic on steel
I doubt if there is graphite on steel

You are in for a shock.

I have had barrels "set back" several times, and by 6000 rounds down the bore, you will see cleaning rod wear in the throat and lands if you have not used a proper cleaning rod.

I have a two 223 Hart barrels that started off 26" long that are now 22 and 23" long after being set back, bore wear being measured with deltronic pins. Some calibers wipe a bore out for 10" in front of the chamber.

A great rod guide will never wear out, other than O rings on the snout that goes into the chamber.

These inexpensive Lyman bore scopes are great for telling how much fouling is left in the barrel and seeing barrel imperfections. They are a digital image, not a true optical image like the Hawkeye bore scope, but the Lyman is plenty good enough.

Like the OP, I have tried a ton of cleaning techniques and various chemicals. Success boils down to elbow grease and brushes, chemicals help to various degrees.

We have seen a lot of progress in shotgun patterns on this board. They often mention the fact that plastic in the barrel will open up patterns. We found this product that is so good that the Marine Corp is now being issued small packages to clean their guns, it is an amazing product. The product will clean plastic out of a shotgun barrel very quickly along with powder fouling, and I would urge all to use the product that want to shoot their shotguns a lot with tight patterns. I am playing around with it with a 7 mag where I am shooting 73g of R#25 to see how it gets out the powder fouling.







this stuff smells like kerosene, not bad.

I am thankful That the OP brought up CLR, I will go to the store and get some this afternoon. I shoot a LOT, so anything that helps out is a good thing.
 
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Originally Posted By: RahlowI'm going to start the argument here. LOL
Being a machinist by training, and having some welding and heat treating experience. I fail to make the connection of a brass rod and brush being an issue with a hardened steel bore, Is this something regarding something I wrote in the article, or is this a carry over from other discussions on the forum? I was trying to remember if I stated that rods or brushes were damaging barrels... I didn't think I had.
 
Is this something regarding something I wrote in the article, or is this a carry over from other discussions on the forum? I was trying to remember if I stated that rods or brushes were damaging barrels... I didn't think I had. [/quote]

I agree with you. I learned the hard way that keeping a barrel clean is of the utmost importance and eliminates the aggravation of gun malfunctions and losing accuracy.
 
Kyle, "I should throw in a caveat that I use bore guides and coated rods, must be my superstitious side showing. But that doesn't mean I'm not skeptical. "

Coated rods lapped my lands and throat. Obviously, lots of shooting on ground squirrels, jack rabbits, coyotes, and p. dogs.

On p. dog hunts, I shot the 223's around 200 rounds inbewteen cleanings with Win 748, 6 PPC around 300 rounds using H335, 243 AI every 125-150 rounds using Win 760.

Dirt and grit that get imbedded on cleaning rod acts as a lapping agent.

Friction is least from a highly polished steel rod on bores, contrary to popular belief.

Only brass cleaning rods that I know of are screw together, never meant to be used for anything but occasional use, they get bent easily.

The OP use of the Pellets is shore nuff worth a try.

Best product for breaking loose carbon was the old GM Top Engine cleaner(Mercury out board cleaner), then we found out that the stuff penetrated your skin and went straight to your kidney walls.
 
Originally Posted By: ackleymanFriction is least from a highly polished steel rod on bores, contrary to popular belief. I sure have been loving my proshot stainless rods. No question about it. Carbon fiber and coated rods are good for giving away.
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Orkan,

Great article. Well written, concise and clear. There will always be those who cannot separate opinions from facts, something that you did very well.

Thanks for sharing,

Mo
 
Ackleyman,

Shooting groundhogs here in PA it might take me 10 years to shoot as many rounds as you do in a month. You make very good points and yes the SS rods are definitely counter intuitive. I try to clean off the rod after every stroke to make sure there is nothing embedded in it.
 
I really enjoyed reading this, well done sir. The Wipeout really does work well, especially when combined with the Accelerator. Darn good stuff. I tried a product similar to the toilet juice that seems to do you what you have found. Not gonna mention the product name, still not sure it really is free of harmful stuff.

Wipe out Gents is THE copper killer. Thanks for the article.

TR
 
Originally Posted By: KyleWoodsAckleyman,

Shooting groundhogs here in PA it might take me 10 years to shoot as many rounds as you do in a month. You make very good points and yes the SS rods are definitely counter intuitive. I try to clean off the rod after every stroke to make sure there is nothing embedded in it.

Kyle, take the handle off the cleaning rod and insert it in a floor model drill press that you probably have access to. Polish the steel cleaning rod with 0000 steel wool...you will know what slick as glass is!

It takes a LOT of cleaning to lap lands and the throat, benchrest shooters really shoot a lot along with p. dog shooters.
 
Originally Posted By: SnowmanMoOrkan,

Great article. Well written, concise and clear. There will always be those who cannot separate opinions from facts, something that you did very well.

Thanks for sharing,

Mo

+1 Great article!
 
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